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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:21 am 
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I've pondered this for a while, and would enjoy hearing Your take on this.

As soon as a mammal feels an emotion - it is instantly displayed on their face and/or behaviour. The methods seem pretty universal too; like crying out when in pain, being jumpy when happy, growling when angry, being down when sad, etc.

For mammals, there appears to be some value in letting everyone else know your emotions; in contrast to, say for a crocodile. If he's sad - it's enough for only him to know. His smile is permanent and unreadable.

So why did our emotions start to take physical form? For example, while birds sing and prance about for eachother (mostly begging to get fucked, or telling others to fuck off), they can't move their faces. Yet penguins live together by the thousands successfully. But at one point, some proto-rat's face started acting up. Why did that catch on?

Follow-up question: Since this has been such a successful evolution, and a vital form of communication among every mammal; why is it so wide-spread for humans to try and conceal our feelings? Why do we cover our mouth when we laugh, apologize and leave when we cry, and swallow our anger?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:35 am 
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Quote:
Since this has been such a successful evolution, and a vital form of communication among every mammal
There's your answer.
Quote:
why is it so wide-spread for humans to try and conceal our feelings? Why do we cover our mouth when we laugh, apologize and leave when we cry, and swallow our anger?
In order to ease cooperation and social relations. Humans true edge.

Some of it is social rules, some of it offers a situational advantage.

Here's a different question, a step further - what is the purpose of emotions?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:35 am 
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Polyvagal Theory

Also, emotions are a shortcut for decision making.
6 min

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYvZUorQbrg

Even some single cell organisms have flight / panic reactions.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:01 am 
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https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog ... n-emotions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion_classification

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_emotions

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:29 pm 
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Never feeling safe sucks he says
You can have bonds with your friggin' dog 8-)

https://youtu.be/br8-qebjIgs?t=1322

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:35 pm 
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The belief that we can easily infer how people feel based on how they look is controversial, and a significant new review of the research suggests there’s no firm scientific justification for it.

“Companies can say whatever they want, but the data are clear,” Lisa Feldman Barrett, a professor of psychology at Northeastern University and one of the review’s five authors, tells The Verge. “They can detect a scowl, but that’s not the same thing as detecting anger.”

The review was commissioned by the Association for Psychological Science, and five distinguished scientists from the field were asked to scrutinize the evidence. Each reviewer represented different theoretical camps in the world of emotion science. “We weren’t sure if we would be able to come to a consensus over the data, but we did,” Barrett says. It took them two years to examine the data, with the review looking at more than 1,000 different studies.

Their findings are detailed — they can be read in full herebut the basic summary is that emotions are expressed in a huge variety of ways, which makes it hard to reliably infer how someone feels from a simple set of facial movements.

“People, on average, the data show, scowl less than 30 percent of the time when they’re angry,” says Barrett. “So scowls are not the expression of anger; they’re an expression of anger — one among many. That means that more than 70 percent of the time, people do not scowl when they’re angry. And on top of that, they scowl often when they’re not angry.”

This, in turn, means companies that use AI to evaluate people’s emotions in this way are misleading consumers. “Would you really want outcomes being determined on this basis?” says Barrett. “Would you want that in a court of law, or a hiring situation, or a medical diagnosis, or at the airport ... where an algorithm is accurate only 30 percent of the time?”

The review doesn’t deny that common or “prototypical” facial expressions might exist, of course, nor that our belief in the communicative power of facial expressions plays a huge role in society. (Don’t forget that when we see people in person, we have so much more information about the context of their emotions than simplistic facial analysis.)

The review recognizes that there’s a huge variety of beliefs in the field of emotion studies. What it rebuts, specifically, is this idea of reliably “fingerprinting” emotion through expression, which is a theory that has its roots in the work of psychologist Paul Ekman from the 1960s (and which Ekman has developed since).

Studies that seem to show a strong correlation between certain facial expressions and emotions are often methodologically flawed, says the review. For example, they use actors pulling exaggerated faces as their starting point for what emotions “look” like. And when test subjects are asked to label these expressions, they’re often asked to choose from a limited selection of emotions, which pushes them toward a certain consensus.

People intuitively understand that emotions are more complex than this, says Barrett. “When I say to people, ‘Sometimes you shout in anger, sometimes you cry in anger, sometimes you laugh, and sometimes you sit silently and plan the demise of your enemies,’ that convinces them,” she says. “I say, ‘Listen, what’s the last time someone won an Academy Award for scowling when they’re angry?’ No one considers that great acting.”

--

Barrett is confident that we will be able to more accurately measure emotions in the future with more sophisticated metrics. “I absolutely believe it’s possible,” she says. But that won’t necessarily stop the current limited technology from proliferating.

--

Barrett says that perhaps the most important takeaway from the review is that we need to think about emotions in a more complex fashion. The expressions of emotions are varied, complex, and situational. She compares the needed change in thinking to Charles Darwin’s work on the nature of species and how his research overturned a simplistic view of the animal kingdom.

“Darwin recognized that the biological category of a species does not have an essence, it’s a category of highly variable individuals,” says Barrett. “Exactly the same thing is true of emotional categories.”
https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/25/8929 ... ion-review

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:04 pm 
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Jared wrote: *

Also, emotions are a shortcut for decision making.
YES.

There is an excellent deep theory on how consciousness emerged specifically as the 'aware / noticer" of emotions so that we can navigate the world. (If you want to Nerd out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmuYrnOVmfk).

Trust ye gut is based on deep science. There's a thread somewhere here where Grinus makes the point that we have evolved specifically to be adaptive and successful - our emotions, & gut feelings being very, very adaptive.

Polyvagel is cool too. Very topical. ;)

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