Natural Freedom

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 7:33 pm 
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Hi NF

It has been a few years since I posted in the forum. 2015 to be exact. I was 23 years old at the time. I’m 29 now.

My last post was about doing inner-work through the process of meditation and self-enquiry. Admittedly it didn’t last very long as I struggled with the concept of ‘tapping into your subconsciousness’. Essentially, I did not know what I was doing. So I stopped. However, I couldn’t run away from inner-work. I suppose once you see both pills, they cannot be unseen.
I came out of a 3-year relationship in January, with someone I believe was my X-factor. She was an incredibly empathetic and compassionate woman that, as I have come to learn, helped me with my emotions.

I have always struggled feeling ‘connected’ with my emotions. I would struggle to understand what I was feeling and how to alleviate myself from them when I was feeling down. As a result, I always stayed caught up in my negative emotions longer than I needed to. She helped by being someone I could vocalise what I was thinking or feeling during times of emotional distress. It acted like a release of some form, without realising it.

The relationship was going very well for the first year and a half. Thereafter, that’s when things became turbulent. I had been feeling anxious about making the decision to get married to her. The pressure was not necessarily from her, but rather pressure I had put on myself.

She was older than I was (32 now), and I wanted kids in future. In order to do that, we had to get married sooner to start preparing for kids before she turned 35. In my mind, having kids after age 35 is problematic for a woman, so if I were to commit to her I had to be sure and I had to be sure quick.

I was unsure about committing to her for a few reasons:

1) I valued health & fitness and she believed in it too. However, over the course of the relationship to date she had gained weight and wasn’t quite convincing that she would take action to manage her weight in future. There were valid medical reasons for the weight gain, but I was not sure whether she would not take steps to manage her weight in future. Particularly, if we were to have kids sooner than planned.
2) I was not ready to have kids in the next few years. I am still building my career and wanted time to explore the world or go on adventures before settling down with kids.
3) I had this desire to ‘hook-up’ with a lot of woman for I settled down with a woman. This stems from a goal I gave myself when I was in my late teens, after not doing very well with woman. I told myself (and them) that they would see me in my late twenties, early thirties, when I had some value (e.g. high paying job, better physique etc.). This belief made me unsure about settling down after my first relationship.

It’s easier to reflect on these points in hindsight as I had time to deal with the sadness of losing the relationship (I gave in and cried). During the relationship I felt all kinds of emotions and anxious that I just didn’t know how to deal with. I blamed her for not exercising and put pressure on her to do so as it was hindering me from making a decision. I felt pressured to make a decision about committing to the future we spoke about before I was ready for it. This came with a lot of outbursts from my side to her. She stayed tolerant and loyal during this time.

Eventually, I ended the relationship because I simply didn’t know how to deal with everything. My emotional turmoil was causing her to feel like I was distancing myself from her, and not committed to her in the long-term. I didn’t know how to manage the emotions of what I was dealing with, and keep her happy at the same time. I ended the relationship so that I didn’t bring her down with me.

The break-up brought me back to the forum to help me learn to deal with my emotions. After my cry about the break-up, I realised that I was dumb about some the concerns (listed above) I had about the relationship:
• I didn’t question why my belief about age 35 being this hard-set number to have kids was there.
• I didn’t question whether my desire to ‘hook-up’ with other woman was still necessary.
• I think the pressure I placed on myself of the age 35 timeline had me put a lot of pressure on her to prove she was serious about health & fitness. This ultimately created a lot of resistance on her part as she felt forced to do something my way, instead of being given the freedom to do it her way.

In other words, I think because I was not able to deal with my emotions and challenge the beliefs I had led me to ultimately break things off with her. These reasons only became clear to me after I cried about the relationship (out of guilt – because I don’t think she anything wrong). I think the emotional release of the cry helped ‘clear my thinking’. Previously I would be vocal about my concerns with her but it was driven with emotion. I didn’t know how to deal with it, and I struggled to rationalise it out with logic.

So I am back. Ready to take on my inner work journey that I started/stopped before the relationship. I don’t want my lack of emotional maturity to hurt others in the future.
I read through the forum and took on Sniper’s suggestion to work through the book Letting Go: The Pathway of Surrender. It has been really insightful so far and putting the concept of ‘letting go’ into perspective. It always felt vague to me and difficult to grasp when I read it on the forum years ago.

I plan to pursue this journey with the knowledge shared in the NF. Thank you for reading.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 9:02 pm 
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Hi Fresh.
Welcome back.

I enjoyed reading your post.

Some nice introspection.

_________________
And since you know you cannot see yourself, so well as by reflection, I, your glass, will modestly discover to yourself, that of yourself which you yet know not of.

Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 5:44 am 
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Thank you GoldenBoy.

I am looking forward to the journey.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 3:02 pm 
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Welcome back Fresh,

Interesting post that belies much introspection and exploration, some important realisations held within.
Fresh wrote: *
I was unsure about committing to her
Yup
Fresh wrote: *
"Eventually, I ended the relationship because I simply didn’t know how to deal with everything."
"I didn’t know how to manage the emotions of what I was dealing with, and keep her happy at the same time."
"I ended the relationship so that I didn’t bring her down with me."
The clarity in these statements is nice to read.
Fresh wrote: *
In other words, I think because I was not able to deal with my emotions and challenge the beliefs I had led me to ultimately break things off with her. These reasons only became clear to me after I cried about the relationship (out of guilt – because I don’t think she anything wrong). I think the emotional release of the cry helped ‘clear my thinking’. Previously I would be vocal about my concerns with her but it was driven with emotion. I didn’t know how to deal with it, and I struggled to rationalise it out with logic.
I would encourage you and others to cry, when it is needed. I was dissuaded during my childhood and many men I know were, it is something worth exploring for yourself.
as you note, it can be a release, a way to move things on.

Finding a way you can explore, vent or otherwise deal with your emotions and release them will help longterm.

the 'reasons' imho are us trying to turn our feeling into logic, so in a sense we can explain them to ourselves and possibly others... the reasons why we feel the way we do.. ie, unwilling to commit to her at this point

ie. your gut is screaming no at you, but you dont really have any solid logical reasons, so you go exploring to find out what is setting your gut off, those then become your reasons, if you are open with yourself.
Fresh wrote: *
It always felt vague to me and difficult to grasp when I read it on the forum years ago.
I've found myself saying this often recently, seems appropriate.
some lessons are sitting there waiting for us, out in the open, waiting for the point where we are ready to understand them and open to them, until then they seem like fog. One we gain the key, usually through an experience that changes the way we are able to view them and suddenly they are there plain as day... "why didnt I see this before, i've read this many times before" :)

we may be reading the same text but we are different from last time we read it.

Grab a chair, some refreshments and have a browse of the shelves, plenty for you to browse, enjoy.

_________________
In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 5:09 pm 
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I concurr with Master G'

" ie. your gut is screaming no at you, but you dont really have any solid logical reasons, so you go exploring to find out what is setting your gut off, those then become your reasons, if you are open with yourself."
" we may be reading the same text but we are different from last time we read it."
1000%

I would argue, that if you are open / honest with yourself, you're indeed turning your emotions / gut reactions into a philosophy. If you're not open, you're just ignoring / discarding that, thus creating it's opposite / secondary reactions / emotions.
Kinda like (sorry potato quality) :
[ img ]


--
About crying, it's funny because when I read your post, I had just cried a bit in my bed (over a discovery I made related to my shadow, don't recall the specifics, it's let go now).

Please watch the comments on this fitting 1m30s video... Just look at the comments about men crying. Pause the video if you don't want to get triggered ... :mrgreen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq_2Hj3_J4k

Or this documentary https://naturalfreedom.info/viewtopic.p ... 819#p48819

Definitely recommended and a great release.

--
And by the way, by this forum's standards, it's not a long read at all :lol:

_________________
And since you know you cannot see yourself, so well as by reflection, I, your glass, will modestly discover to yourself, that of yourself which you yet know not of.

Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:20 pm 
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peregrinus wrote: *
ie. your gut is screaming no at you, but you don't really have any solid logical reasons, so you go exploring to find out what is setting your gut off, those then become your reasons, if you are open with yourself.
This stumped me when I read it for the first time. I needed a few days to reflect on it because I remember the gut screaming no at some point in the relationship. I was perplexed by it because it was in contradiction to what I had shared with her. I shared that I loved her, introduced her to my family and we were discussing a future together. She was my first girlfriend and my first love, and everything I shared with her was genuine and honest. Being the eldest child (of three), it was also an important moment introducing her to the family. All these steps and milestones indicated to me that the relationship had to evolve as we planned it out.

Reflecting back on it now, it looks like I was fighting my gut this whole time.

It is tough accepting this because that means things can change even after you have planned a future together with someone. I know this happens e.g. divorce after kids etc. but still. What does that say about me and the things I say?
I am going to reflect on this.

peregrinus wrote: *
Finding a way you can explore, vent or otherwise deal with your emotions and release them will help longterm.
I agree. I generally play soccer with friends when something is bothering me. I wouldn't say it releases my emotions. It temporarily distracts me from my emotions. I still need to return and deal with them. Talking out the problem with someone also helps. I suppose my practice of daily meditation will help me experience a release. We'll see.

peregrinus wrote: *
I've found myself saying this often recently, seems appropriate.
some lessons are sitting there waiting for us, out in the open, waiting for the point where we are ready to understand them and open to them, until then they seem like fog. One we gain the key, usually through an experience that changes the way we are able to view them and suddenly they are there plain as day... "why didnt I see this before, i've read this many times before" :)
we may be reading the same text but we are different from last time we read it.
Grab a chair, some refreshments and have a browse of the shelves, plenty for you to browse, enjoy.

Thanks peregrinus. I'm looking forward to learning from the forum, and more importantly, practicing it. Previously I use to read through the forum as a passive activity, as-and-when. I need to give it (i.e. inner-work) dedicated time during my week like I have tonight. Much more effective for me.

@GoldenBoy Can you share the context of the image you attached, or a link to source? Particularly how the shadow form relates to how I'm feeling. For example, I read it as if I am sad then it means that my shadow form within me is mad. Potentially mad at me, which makes me feel sad. Am I understanding this right?
GoldenBoy wrote: *
Please watch the comments on this fitting 1m30s video... Just look at the comments about men crying. Pause the video if you don't want to get triggered ... :mrgreen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq_2Hj3_J4k

Or this documentary https://naturalfreedom.info/viewtopic.p ... 819#p48819

Definitely recommended and a great release.

Thank you for this GB. I've bookmarked to watch the documentary. Definitely in line with what I'm processing at the moment!
GoldenBoy wrote: *
And by the way, by this forum's standards, it's not a long read at all :lol:

Noted :D Thank you both Master P and GB for taking the time to reflect and share your thoughts on my post.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 3:38 pm 
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I'll comment only from my side, even though I enjoyed all of your post.

@Fresh, the picture comes from Ken Wilber's "Integral Life Practice", that I had just skimmed through and this image jumped at me, and rightfully so imo.
*This book I don't endorse yet, let's say it first. I haven't read it, may be otherwise hooey. I don't know. But these pics I like, and overall it looks very interesting otherwise too.*
In the same book, I also like :
[ img ]

And this one meshing Maslow's needs with other systems / schools of thought, something I was trying to do in my mind :lol:
[ img ][ img ]

An article that goes through his 3-2-1 process for dealing with shadow. https://oxheadpsychology.com.au/ken-wil ... ojections/
As always, take what is useful. You might prefer Grinus's leaves on a stream, or other ways to access your subconscious (Acceptance and Commitment Therapy could def be useful too).

_________________
And since you know you cannot see yourself, so well as by reflection, I, your glass, will modestly discover to yourself, that of yourself which you yet know not of.

Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 3:54 pm 
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So it was sex then, not 'is she worthy of commitment'

"Don't roofie me and call it romance." - Dick Roman, Supernatural

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:13 am 
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GoldenBoy wrote: *
An article that goes through his 3-2-1 process for dealing with shadow. https://oxheadpsychology.com.au/ken-wil ... ojections/
As always, take what is useful. You might prefer Grinus's leaves on a stream, or other ways to access your subconscious (Acceptance and Commitment Therapy could def be useful too).
Thank you @GB. I have been practicing Grinus's leaves on a stream approach by doing daily meditation. There are a lot of methods presented on the Forum. To avoid overanalysing, I'll stick with the meditative approach for now and monitor progress. One thing I have noticed is that the meditative approach helps me not "stick" or get attached to my thoughts. The next step is accessing the subconscious - I suppose I will know I have reached it when I get there? It's still something I want to intentionally practice.
Jared wrote: *
So it was sex then, not 'is she worthy of commitment'
Jared, you always come with the one-two punch. I had to reflect on this. It certainly started as a pursuit of sex. My game was slow. Then it turned into a relationship. Being my first one, I thought that's how relationships progress. I enjoyed her company too.

I need to have some introspection to do this. Why did I progress into to a relationship? Why didn't I leave earlier?

Thank you.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:09 pm 
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Fresh wrote: *
I remember the gut screaming no at some point in the relationship. I was perplexed by it because it was in contradiction to what I had shared with her. I shared that I loved her, introduced her to my family and we were discussing a future together. She was my first girlfriend and my first love, and everything I shared with her was genuine and honest. Being the eldest child (of three), it was also an important moment introducing her to the family. All these steps and milestones indicated to me that the relationship had to evolve as we planned it out.

Reflecting back on it now, it looks like I was fighting my gut this whole time.
This, so this..

(for yourself)
what was it saying and why?
why were you ignoring/disregarding/denying/fighting it?

..
on another note, were you already living in the future? rather than the present

_________________
In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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