Natural Freedom

Forum for the natural awakening and self-realization of men
It is currently Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:09 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 54 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 4:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:46 am
Posts: 118
She has slept with her ex before. She also told me a lot of things about how it wasn't great with him because he was clueless, couldn't stay hard, and a lot smaller than her first bf who was huge. She dated him for 2.5 years and he payed for everything and took her to a bunch of places. I still don't get it though.

She's vocalized or asked to have sex many times, but I'd never do it because when she is not aroused she tells me she thinks it is wrong. She tells me when she feels aroused she doesn't care and later feels ashamed that she doesn't care. I'm not sure where I stand on it personally atm, but I'm fine with playing around without sex. I refuse because I know it will just bring a lot of baggage because when she isn't in that state she tells me how she thinks it is wrong and how she gave her ex an ultimatum that she'd break up if they ever did it again and they stopped. She is also going into ministry which would make it even worse if we did have sex I think because she'd feel that having sex drags her down and feel the need to break it off.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 5:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:44 am
Posts: 100
Mirror time. How you feel about sex can be found out through this relationship. Look at your neediness to clinging onto this relationship and how its a safe relationship for you from having to delve into a full sexual relationship. Look at the shame bubbling to the surface in your post, that's your shame as much as hers bc you accept it in your life and through your relationship with her. How many issues that you state as her "issues with sex" are actually your issues deep inside but this relationship allows you to project them onto her without dealing with them yourself? It's not the specific girl you're clinging to, she represents a safety net, that's what you're clinging to.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 5:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:46 am
Posts: 118
I'm not ashamed of the way I feel or what I want to do. I've had sex before and don't feel ashamed about it. She felt and probably still feels shame over her past experiences. She felt shame over playing around and sexual things initially but I've helped her to move past a lot of shame regarding it. Theoretically I could see it possible to lead her beyond feeling shame with sex too. I'm not sure that I want to though for my own beliefs and for the drama I think it could bring.

Honestly the only reason we haven't had sex is because of me. Sometimes she tries to wrap herself around me or sit on it to put it in. A lot of times when things get close she gets upset. She also relayed how she would often cry after sex and feel like her relationships with her ex's were no good and needed to end.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 6:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:44 am
Posts: 100
Why are you in a pseudo sexual relationship with a girl that has a lot of shame and guilt around her sexuality? Why are you clingy and needy with regards to this relationship? What would be your definition of a healthy sexual relationship? Does your current relationship with this girl fit that definition?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 6:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:46 am
Posts: 118
I'm continuing to explore the clingyness and discover more things about myself. I generally come to this form to post about relationship issues or receive insight into things I don't understand and therefore a lot of what I've said probably makes the relationship sound crappy. We have a lot of good moments and have grown a lot together. I enjoy our time together and I wrongly cling to it tightly. I've learned to not hold on so tightly and how it has improved the quality of my relationship.

A part of my holds on so tight because I don't want to feel like a failure. I feel like I should be able to make this relationship work and make it phenomenal. I know I have many options, but even leaving makes me feel like I failed. I want a long term relationship and have never had one so not being able to make it happen makes me feel like I'm not good enough. But like I said, I'm learning to let go more and more and when I do we both have amazing times. When I feel strongly masculine and she's really happy I feel great and feel successful. When either one of those isn't met I feel like I'm failing and inadequate. Deep down I know I shouldn't care and that by not caring and just expressing myself we'll both be that level of happy more often. The other night we had an incredible intimate night of hours of talking, playing around, and just enjoying each other. I just focused on enjoying her physically and in our talking. She said it was the most intimate experience she's had and loved it and I did too. It wasn't even because I was doing anything physical incredible it was just emotional/state I guess.


I haven't explored what my picture of a healthy sexual relationship looks like. It was never something I considered when looking for a partner. Personally, as long as I enjoy the fore play and go off I'm not sure that I care how she does it, whether it involves sex or not.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 11:51 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:08 pm
Posts: 2798
Location: UK
foofatron wrote:
She's vocalized or asked to have sex many times,


foofatron wrote:
when she is not aroused she tells me she thinks it is wrong.


foofatron wrote:
She tells me when she feels aroused she doesn't care


All those lines are true

None of them conflict

Think about why.

_________________
In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 11:57 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:08 pm
Posts: 2798
Location: UK
luciddream wrote:
Mirror time. How you feel about sex can be found out through this relationship. Look at your neediness to clinging onto this relationship and how its a safe relationship for you from having to delve into a full sexual relationship. Look at the shame bubbling to the surface in your post, that's your shame as much as hers bc you accept it in your life and through your relationship with her. How many issues that you state as her "issues with sex" are actually your issues deep inside but this relationship allows you to project them onto her without dealing with them yourself? It's not the specific girl you're clinging to, she represents a safety net, that's what you're clinging to.

I would tend to give this a big thumbs up.

_________________
In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 4:00 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:11 am
Posts: 748
foofatron wrote:
A part of my holds on so tight because I don't want to feel like a failure. I feel like I should be able to make this relationship work and make it phenomenal. I know I have many options, but even leaving makes me feel like I failed. I want a long term relationship and have never had one so not being able to make it happen makes me feel like I'm not good enough.


This is where you need to focus your work.

This underlying drive is not even about the relationship, but is going to greatly color your ability to see clearly and make wise decisions.

It is like someone insisting they finish running 4 miles because they'll feel like a failure if they don't meet this arbitrary ideal they set (which your definition of "long term relationship" is btw, because everyone's is,) while they have lost all form, body is contorted, probably doing lots of damage, but they don't want to feel this constructed sense of failure. They are blind to everything except this. Ever see this? It's physically painful to watch people running this way, and the "accomplishment" is arbitrary.

hint: the feeling of failure is already there and it has found something in this relationship to give it a context, which we crave for such feelings. If you reach the point where women and relationships stop being some kind of goal or project with a big carrot at the end and just become the natural part of life that they are- and they are a nice one, that feeling would project onto something else: Career, money, some other invented thing.

Also note that most people are responding to energy of what you are saying and the vibe you are putting forward, not the minutiae. You are focused on a lot of details that don't matter nearly as much as you think. It's not the type of thing where you can say "but she sends me a lot of texts that she misses me" and everyone is going to say "well, this changes everything!" Because:

Quote:
I generally come to this form to post about relationship issues or receive insight into things I don't understand and therefore a lot of what I've said probably makes the relationship sound crappy.


It doesn't sound crappy but your relationship to the relationship is what I would venture to say people are having a gut level reaction to. ItNote that everything you are describing is perfectly natural for people especially this young. A lot of it is also a type of personal hell, which is impossible to realize until you are on the other side of it and know what it is to be free of this. It is worth it. You don't lose any of the good, you don't stop caring about people or enjoying intimacy- you just get the direct experience of it without all the bullshit overhead and ego out of the way.

_________________
http://www.innerreconciliation.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 5:13 am 
Online

Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:51 pm
Posts: 1615
Location: Laniakea Supercluster
Quote:
"The values you live your lives by come from the voids that were in your life
during your formative years."


If - then - reality

~3min from 1h25min44 to about 1h28min30

https://youtu.be/1znW2FY71fo?t=1h25m44s

_________________
Nothing in common


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 4:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:42 pm
Posts: 161
Location: UK
Soooo...

You're not having sex - ok fair enough

But why are you staying round hers then? Don't you think that might be a little bit............ Teasing. And she's ment to be joining some ministry.

"Personally, as long as I enjoy the fore play and go off I'm not sure that I care how she does it, whether it involves sex or not."

So as long as you get what you want. This just sounds like you're farming her like a farm animal. For your physical and mental masturbation.

Most religions who are against sex before marriage are against masturbation as well and often for similar reasons. Also, masturbation is a bit pathetic.


Sure your relationship is probably very nice etc. But when it comes to the sexual stuff not so much. And sex is a big part of any relationship if you're doing it or not.

It sounds to me like you're getting off, on using your self-control to tempt her and making her want to be a slut. When clearly a greater part of her being does not want that. It's easy to tempt people.

Also, I agree with what the others have said. I hope this doesn't seem too harsh.

_________________
We go away to find home, we make acquaintances to understand friends, we converse in order to enrich our conversation with ourselves. - Michael Oakeshott


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 9:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:00 pm
Posts: 1218
luciddream wrote:
Mirror time. How you feel about sex can be found out through this relationship. Look at your neediness to clinging onto this relationship and how its a safe relationship for you from having to delve into a full sexual relationship. Look at the shame bubbling to the surface in your post, that's your shame as much as hers bc you accept it in your life and through your relationship with her. How many issues that you state as her "issues with sex" are actually your issues deep inside but this relationship allows you to project them onto her without dealing with them yourself? It's not the specific girl you're clinging to, she represents a safety net, that's what you're clinging to.

Image
This hits home for me as well.
Nice talk. :ugeek:

peregrinus wrote:
I would tend to give this a big thumbs up.


+1

_________________
By searching first and posting questions only if you find no answers, everyone will be much happier
No matter HOW smart you think you ARE, there will ALWAYS be somebody who is smarter than you. So never underestimate people.


Fravia+


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 1:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:42 pm
Posts: 161
Location: UK
peregrinus wrote:
She Told Me She Couldn’t Get Pregnant!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r6fqc6jtaI


I quote "if you use people for sex you set your self up for being used" - all your 'issues' relating to sex come back to this.

Cows produce milk for their offspring. The only time they don't is when they're being farmed.

All animals have sex to make babies. They have sex when they're ready to have a baby. It's biological hardwiring. You can not have one without wanting the other - without conflict.

How come it's only in the last 100 years that everyone has developed sexual issues.
It's not recorded in ancient cultures although we have lots of explicit material from them.

Sex is used as marketing tool to control you. Why is there an explosion of sexual identity politics and the introduction of a million different genders.

Even red-pill acts like women being ​sexual creatures is some kind of secret. But it isn't. And it never has been. Just listen to the radio, switch on the TV. Read any book from the last 2000 years.

_________________
We go away to find home, we make acquaintances to understand friends, we converse in order to enrich our conversation with ourselves. - Michael Oakeshott


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 3:05 am 
@Foofatron, lol I must have been thinking of another thread. :oops:

My bad, I thought she or you said you were both virgins or something. It's all good. I see lots of good pointers and advice.

Edit:

foofatron wrote:
We never have due to beliefs, but have done everything but.


I take back what I said. You were pretty vague there, which can lead someone to think what I thought if they're not reading too deep. Glad I wasn't.

Advice 2.0:

Your "beliefs" are tinkering with the energy of your relationship. Just an FYI. Because you guys have a "no sex" situation, you have the mushroom Giga-Peta-Yottabyte nuclear bomb of repression. I'm surprised she hasn't started having sex with other people already.

Listen to their advice. Good luck man. The reset imo would have been bad knowing this new information now. Repression is like a fine toothed comb. Too much pressure and the comb will bend or break. I've lost a few women this way. It's not you causing the situation though. It's your "beliefs" (fully quoted out now because you've already had sex). Your beliefs will drive sexual tension too high with any woman attracted to you and who thinks relatively close to how a woman thinks.

See what I said earlier to the tune of she may have sex with someone else and even think it's for you or the health of your relationship.

I could tell you what to say to get out of it, but it has to come from your heart and gut to make it work. There's a small way to renegotiate that contract. It's a situation that dictates you calling/texting her first, which is really one of the few/only times you ever need to call or text first.

Last note, trust yourself and be radically honest. Admit your fault. Admit her faults. Let her know that it's time to grow. Make sure you tell her in no uncertain terms, "You can believe me." That's not the verbatim thing to say. It's the verbatim of what I would say at the end of my spiel or after sex, probably both, since I had to renegotiate. :lol: All she wants to do is have a man to believe in anyway.


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 6:11 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:42 pm
Posts: 161
Location: UK
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... sex-drive/


""Why is there no such thing as a sex drive?

A drive is a motivational system to deal with life-or-death issues, like hunger or being too cold. You’re not going to die if you don’t have sex.

But biologists might say that if you don’t reproduce, that is a form of death

Yes. That’s the argument that was used when desire was being added to the way sexual dysfunctions were diagnosed in the 1970s, to justify the framing of sexual desire as a drive. But when it comes to sex, there just isn’t any physical evidence of a drive mechanism.

So what’s going on?

If sex is a drive then desire should be spontaneous, like a hunger. When you see a sexy person or have a stray sexy thought, it activates an internal craving or urge for sex. That’s called “spontaneous desire”. It feels like it comes out of the blue. But there is another way of experiencing desire which is also healthy and normal, called “responsive desire”, where your interest only emerges in response to arousal. So, your partner comes over and starts kissing your neck and you’re like, “oh, right, sex, that’s a good idea”.""

_________________
We go away to find home, we make acquaintances to understand friends, we converse in order to enrich our conversation with ourselves. - Michael Oakeshott


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 54 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group