Natural Freedom

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:51 pm 
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What I had to realise, was that relationships were what they were (bad and dysfunctional in lot of things) not becuase of broken women, but because of my own inner beliefs. So looking for different kind of women is legit, but also investing time in inner work to see why you are attracted to these kind of women, is most probably neccesarry..

You may think you don't want something, but you feel internally attracted to it. I know I was and to some things still am

So, inner work is, as always, King


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:00 pm 
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It takes 2, they were broken and so was I but they were on another level of crazy.

The first woman I ever fell in love with when I was a teenager was especially fucked up so naturally I gravitated towards women like her, I had no concept of self-worth at the time and was happy to have any connection. My first experience of a girlfriend was in high school, she was frustrated that I didn't know how to take it past kissing but she did nothing to instruct me either, she knew I had no experience, we never had sex during that time and she cheated on me after a week and had her friend dump me after walking past me with hickeys on her neck and some sweaty dude walking behind her (the dude that was fucking her).

Her and the other chick were my frame of reference for women in the affairs of the heart. Starting out like that was pretty shitty and I instilled some negative views about myself, I thought the way they treated me was a reflection of my worth as a person, that's at the crux of it I think. They screwed me up pretty bad, to the point where I didn't lose my virginity until over a decade later, finally got to that point thanks to Kidd.

So that's the treatment I expected, in my experience the fucked up ones are more proactive, for a guy like me who abhors doing any kind of work (I did too much work in the past and got jaded) this is great except for the bullshit that comes with it, it's not worth it.

Mature women who have their shit together and take the initiative would be a welcome change. I can spot the qualities I don't want and I know my worth, what it means to live by my terms and not compromise for anyone, not for pussy, not for a relationship, nothing.

Accountability is a healing thing, I know I chose some fucked up women to start with, how they treated me should have been no surprise. When your friends start telling you their first impression of an ex and none of those impressions are good, that just confirms it. When a buddy who's never met her sees one pic of her and says 'yeah she looks mental', I mean fuck, what more confirmation do you need. :lol:

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"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:46 pm 
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I don't recommend starting from the place that everything that attracts you to these women, and everything going on inside of you around the topic, is because "the first woman was a mess, so she did this to me."

Not because it's necessarily not true, which it may be, but because it is not useful in moving forward.

It just gives a simple, "well that's why" satisfying answer that can shut down probing past it into all the interesting, good stuff underneath it.

Accountability is not about fault, you can simply be curious about the fact that attraction itself IS there and there is something that engages you on an emotional level. The actual experience of it is far more interesting than just "it's because the first girl was like that," and often times simply seeing the process happen from a place of separation from it can cut the cord.

I'm sure I'm not the only person who has experienced dramatic changes in taste as a result of letting go of emotional hooks. This includes food, relationships, general activities.

You don't need to exercise willpower to stay away from things or cut them off when they literally start to become unattractive to you, whether that's fast food or manipulative people. By looking at it from the inside out, you start operating from a higher energy, better place, better emotional state, however you like to think of it. You begin to become naturally more drawn to things that are good for you and them to you in a healthy, upward spiral.

If you hold this picture in mind you will move towards it. If you hold the picture of "not putting up with toxic women" in your mind, you will move towards that and look to exercise the power of attracting one in order to shut them down.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:37 pm 
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Flow83 wrote:
You don't need to exercise willpower to stay away from things or cut them off when they literally start to become unattractive to you, whether that's fast food or manipulative people. By looking at it from the inside out, you start operating from a higher energy, better place, better emotional state, however you like to think of it. You begin to become naturally more drawn to things that are good for you and them to you in a healthy, upward spiral.


Some rough notes for my Aristotle dissertation:

Quote:
(In EN 6.2 Aristotle says that the goal does not appear except to the virtuous (ii44a34) – this is why one cannot be wise without being good.
However, even akratic people have some grasp of the good goal from which they rebel (ii1a25-26) and so must the self-controlled. So how can it appear only to the good?)

Charles answer ( his interpretation of Aristotle) is that being virtuous and having correct and healthy desires is necessary to view the healthy and virtuous goal as a goal because viewing a ‘virtuous’ goal as a goal is to be attracted to it in the appropriate way (81). Therefore the self-controlled, while they may be attracted to it, will not have a healthy grasp on the correct goal. They might have unhealthy reasons for viewing the goal as correct that would make the goodness of the goal incidental. For example, they might act on the authority of others rather than workout the correctness of the goal for themselves (ii47a18-20), or they may expect to profit from behaving in a particular way (EE 1224b20-22). It would also mean that Aristotle’s remark that the self-controlled must stand by their opinions (ii46a17, 1151b6-7), is because they lack knowledge that the practically wise have attained via experience (1142a19-21).
Charles` interpretation is further backed up when Aristotle states that the self-controlled would experience pleasure in acting contrary to whatever grasp of a good goal they did have (ii51b35-ii52a3). This would be because the agent would not be acting for the sake of what is ‘good’ in a good goal, but for some other less healthy cause which could just as easily attach itself to an unhealthy goal. ----- But what is it about a good goal that causes the virtuous to become attached to it in a way that the self-controlled do not? ----- Charles believes that fineness/nobility is what Aristotle takes to be the thing within a good goal that a person will become attracted to (82).


"fineness/nobility" The term that A uses is "Kalon" which could (it can`t really) roughly be translated as divine beauty.

To spot this beauty look for the chance encounters, the patterns that you wouldn't ordinarily notice. The particularities of your circumstances (the women you meet for instance) point to the particularities of who you are. The world and society are like an ecosystem all timing and events matter (does this not sound like the observation work that the kidd mentioned?).

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We go away to find home, we make acquaintances to understand friends, we converse in order to enrich our conversation with ourselves. - Michael Oakeshott


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:20 pm 
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Flow83 wrote:

Accountability is not about fault, you can simply be curious about the fact that attraction itself IS there and there is something that engages you on an emotional level. The actual experience of it is far more interesting than just "it's because the first girl was like that," and often times simply seeing the process happen from a place of separation from it can cut the cord.


Are you talking about going into the feeling of when I was attracted to them and letting it pass like the other stuff?

Flow83 wrote:
If you hold this picture in mind you will move towards it. If you hold the picture of "not putting up with toxic women" in your mind, you will move towards that and look to exercise the power of attracting one in order to shut them down.


So rather, hold the picture of worthy women in my mind instead of trying to avoid the ones I don't want and I'll gravitate towards that.

_________________
"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:35 pm 
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During my introspection today I looked at my situations with these women from the outside in and saw layers, different dimensions to the interactions and was able to separate them.

One of my issues was lumping them all in one box by what they had in common, which is little, yes they were all crazy but that answer was too simplistic and not really addressing what was happening there. I can see how seeing them all as a collective experience is detrimental to my learning from these experiences, I needed to step outside of it so I could pick them apart.

Then some profound insight came to me from deep within. Curiosity, rather than judgment regarding my emotions helps those feelings pass but the more important thing is my attitude towards them has shifted and lead to understanding more about those situations.

It was easier for me to see all my experiences as a collective experience because I could then formulate a simple answer but I didn't have the answer because I had not really seen the situations for what they were, at least on that deeper level.

Coming from a place of knowing my worth, if there's something I don't agree with I need to walk away, everytime I walk away from an undesirable situation or something that demands that I would compromise my integrity or sell out on my principles I will be stronger, this will solidify my mindset and ultimately make me happier.

I didn't walk away when these girls asked for a relationship, I allowed the emotional part of myself to make the decision. I can see whole new dimensions to my situations now, and as I see these separately it's doing something good for me, the best way I can describe it, it's a deeper sense of self, an acknowledgment of myself, a deeper understanding of myself, I feel more grounded.

With this insight I'm grateful for this recent experience, I went to the darkest place I've been in years and through that I learned so much, there is still anger there but I'm ok with it and as I'm ok with it it's fading away. I can see what I was holding on to, the parts of me that needed satisfaction but would never get it, the attitudes that were holding me back.

I've befriended my demons, we'll see what happens from here.

Thank you all and have a great new year.

_________________
"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:25 pm 
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No need to walk away, just don`t react.

No need to hold on to any picture, just let it pass by.

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We go away to find home, we make acquaintances to understand friends, we converse in order to enrich our conversation with ourselves. - Michael Oakeshott


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:11 pm 
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Pindar wrote:
No need to walk away, just don`t react.

No need to hold on to any picture, just let it pass by.


By walking away I meant saying no to relationships when the subject comes up.

_________________
"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:15 pm 
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Alchemist wrote:
Then some profound insight came to me from deep within. Curiosity, rather than judgment regarding my emotions helps those feelings pass but the more important thing is my attitude towards them has shifted and lead to understanding more about those situations.


Very good. That's direct observation, you are empty of your own pre-conceived answers and instead are just actually looking at what is really going on. Deeper things reveal themselves when you do this. It's no different for internal things like this than it is for observing external situations.

Quote:
So rather, hold the picture of worthy women in my mind instead of trying to avoid the ones I don't want and I'll gravitate towards that.


It's not necessary to try to hold onto a picture, it's more of a general sense of connecting to what actually matters to you in life and why you are doing any of this in the first place. When all of your mental and emotional energy is still fixated on the last manipulative women, or any situation like this in your life which can be unconscious if you aren't paying attention, you are more interested in recreating this experience so you can shut her down next time. I doubt your ultimate goal is to be shutting down manipulative women, but to be enjoying your life and whoever is in it. Shutting down a bad deal or ridiculous behavior is just an automatic response, not a big deal, and your attention simply returns to what actually matters.

The more clear you get, that all just becomes less interesting. If I offer you a deal to build 10 websites for me in exchange for an email that says "thank you :)" and some time to hang out with me, would you even remotely consider it, would you respond in any way other than to just laugh, and move on with your life? There's no emotional hook there, you just see it for what it is. Would you feel the need to show me what's what and exert your 'power' by explaining to me that your time is valuable and you're not going to put up with such a nonsense deal, but then post on internet forums about how I respond back? You just see the giant pothole in the road and move away. Or if you choose to engage you do it consciously.

Nice work man. It's been fun revisiting this during holiday times. Like 2016 I will not be on here much til next holiday or so. Best of luck to you and anyone else!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:01 pm 
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The more I distance myself from her existence in my mind, the more I see how shitty of a person she is.

I'm glad she's out of my life, she's a user and a fake.

I was just a fucktoy and whatever else to her, a thing to be used.

_________________
"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


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