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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:41 pm 
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Been meaning for a long while to make this post. Have and continue to be given so much by this forum, hope I can add something useful back.

On inner work / pushups there are a lot of different approaches and advice. Different exercises and ways forward.

IMO and general consensus seems to be that you'll have to find your own way, try things out and see what works for you. Wise.

There is a useful model from an emerging type of therapy - Acceptance and Commitment Therapy - based on radical behaviorism, that puts the emphasis (80/20) of much of mental health and functioning on 'psychological flexibility'. The model has 6 core processes - and practices from all 6 can be seen all over this forum.

I use it as a useful organizing lens; as an indicator of where to focus and what to practice.

The 6 skills are:

Experiential Acceptance: willingly encountering and allowing your experience to be what it is, as opposed to avoidance

viewtopic.php?p=2498#p2498
viewtopic.php?p=37049#p37049

Defusion: the recognition of thought as thought / language, as opposed to 'buying' into it as 'the truth'

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=787

Contact with the Present Moment: flexible attention to the present, as opposed to drifting into the past or future

viewtopic.php?p=9190#p9190
viewtopic.php?p=9251#p9251

Self-as-Context: the perspective of being observer of experience, as opposed to the 'conceptualized' or storied self

observation vs ego again

Value Clarification: knowing how it is that you want to be - the quality of action you want to embody, as opposed to confusion around what you want to stand for

indifference / integrity

Committed Action: the continual turning back to actions that align with your values, as opposed to not taking action or taking ineffective action



The 6 processes support and lead to one another; their result is a greater ability to respond flexibly to life in line with what you care about.

There are specific threads I could link to each process, but I don't really have the time to do them all now.

Peregrinus models these processes well, @Grinus you might find this an interesting lens.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:30 pm 
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Very interesting lens.

Been reading some about it since your post. Does indeed seem to have parallels or commonalities and I can see what you mean about marks of the 6 can be seen all over the forum.

I remember coming across CBT when that was all the rage and several ppl pointed me to it, that did not resonate with me well, for several reasons at the time. Do not remember seeing ACT then or mentioned in the same articles.

The ACT 6 seem aligned to a lot of what we talk about here, interesting to see it written like that and distilled. Worth a read for people, to see if it resonates with them.

I find myself reading the 6 and nodding at each point..

more reading to follow, an interesting lens

what are your experiences with ACT?

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:59 am 
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Quote:
I remember coming across CBT when that was all the rage and several ppl pointed me to it, that did not resonate with me well, for several reasons at the time. Do not remember seeing ACT then or mentioned in the same articles.
ACT is relatively recent, only starting to become more mainstream in the psychology world now. Although it looks like therapy is heading towards the direction of helping people develop micro-skills, and away from pathological labelling (thankfully).

I agree and had the same reaction to CBT - just didn't sit well with me. I was aware that it wasn't the content of my thoughts that needed changing, but my relationship with them in a way that would help me 'open' to life. Finding ACT a few years ago was a step in the right direction for me. *Interestingly, research suggests that CBT might actually work because of ACT principles and not because of changing the thoughts, i.e. by practicing 'correcting' thoughts, sometimes people get 'defused' and start to identify less with thinking.

My experiences have been positive, I've found it very reliable to keep coming back to: to noticing where I am, what I am feeling / experiencing, to get out from being too in my head, and recognizing a space to choose freely how to respond to my current experience; that can be kind of circular by again moving back to noticing, accepting, allowing, letting go - or to taking action.

I think it's been important to me to help me clarify my values - how I want to be - but I can get a bit too cerebral with it sometimes and end up getting confused or overwhelmed. So then its again, moving back into noticing my experience and where I am, maybe letting it go for a while.

I've heard A Liberated Mind is excellent, came out last year, but I just haven't been able to get through it. I really like some of Kelly Wilson's writings. I'm interested in studying further, so I tend more to the practitioner / scientist writings.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:17 pm 
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Hineini wrote: *
ACT is relatively recent, only starting to become more mainstream in the psychology world now. Although it looks like therapy is heading towards the direction of helping people develop micro-skills, and away from pathological labelling (thankfully).
Seems it got lost in that post CBT thing, where other approaches were not pursued so much. Hopefully past that now and some other approaches can thrive.

Agree with your last line, about time too :)
Hineini wrote: *
Finding ACT a few years ago was a step in the right direction for me. *Interestingly, research suggests that CBT might actually work because of ACT principles and not because of changing the thoughts, i.e. by practicing 'correcting' thoughts, sometimes people get 'defused' and start to identify less with thinking.
Interesting and makes sense..

Makes a lot of sense, this has been seen before in other approaches, where it was a bit borrowed from something else that was really helping.
Hineini wrote: *
My experiences have been positive, I've found it very reliable to keep coming back to: to noticing where I am, what I am feeling / experiencing, to get out from being too in my head, and recognizing a space to choose freely how to respond to my current experience; that can be kind of circular by again moving back to noticing, accepting, allowing, letting go - or to taking action.
This is the thing I am getting from my reading on it so far.
The taking pause, seeing what you are looking at, then formulating your approach.

Causing the blockages to the flow to dissolve, rather than smashing them to bits or avoiding them totally

time out for yourself really (not clock time)

putting yourself more in the moment

Seems many resonances with this place
Hineini wrote: *

I think it's been important to me to help me clarify my values - how I want to be - but I can get a bit too cerebral with it sometimes and end up getting confused or overwhelmed. So then its again, moving back into noticing my experience and where I am, maybe letting it go for a while.
as above

Sounds positive

giving yourself a bit more of you, rather than shutting parts of you down
Hineini wrote: *
I've heard A Liberated Mind is excellent, came out last year, but I just haven't been able to get through it. I really like some of Kelly Wilson's writings. I'm interested in studying further, so I tend more to the practitioner / scientist writings.
It has been delivered and am working my way slowly through it (my side not the text)
It has caused many smiles and laughs so far and recognizing so many snippets in it from eastern texts and sources. (leaves on a stream for example - really surprised how many google results nowadays)

Was aiming to do a few reads before replying, I feel that may take longer than I thought at the moment.
Thank you for the recommend on the book, am finding it interesting and thought provoking, as you said an interesting lens to look through.


Curious as to if you found act or the forum first(not join date), and what influence reading one first had on the other and on you?

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:56 am 
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Peregrinus wrote:
Causing the blockages to the flow to dissolve, rather than smashing them to bits or avoiding them totally
There's a nice line paraphrased by Hayes, originally Skinner, "to take the energy inside pathology, and redirect it towards vitality".

I recently heard an interview that's really stuck with me, coming from a different place entirely, but again touching on and describing this idea of energy and flow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4ZzUyMAOGc&t=1819 She described Anxiety - Depression as two poles, of high and low energy.

Peregrinus wrote:
giving yourself a bit more of you, rather than shutting parts of you down
this is nicely put, a way I hadn't thought of it before
Peregrinus wrote:
Was aiming to do a few reads before replying, I feel that may take longer than I thought at the moment.
its a rabbit hole in itself, my understanding keeps changing as I go along. for all the theory, I appreciate that the emphasis is on the practice of skills. a nice metaphor that resonates with me, is that it's like riding a bike - you're constantly falling, catching yourself and falling again... and once you're going you don't think too much about it, you just enjoy the ride and keep heading to wherever it is you're going.
Peregrinus wrote:
Curious as to if you found act or the forum first(not join date), and what influence reading one first had on the other and on you?
Found ACT long before the forum, been a circular journey with it - took me a couple of years before practising the skills in any meaningful way. Part of what appealed to me about the forum was that I could look under a lot of the different language and see the same processes. The processes are neutral IMO, they help facilitate the journey but they don't direct it.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:27 pm 
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Hineini wrote: *
Found ACT long before the forum, been a circular journey with it - took me a couple of years before practising the skills in any meaningful way. Part of what appealed to me about the forum was that I could look under a lot of the different language and see the same processes. The processes are neutral IMO, they help facilitate the journey but they don't direct it.
Interesting.

The bolded part in my view is very important and one of the many reasons I encourage people to seek out other sources and consume them also.

I find the differences and 'different angles/perspectives' can contribute a lot to uncovering what is beneath that, or help 'click' with the reader. Seeing the same thing described in different ways with different focus/lens, like spinning the object in your hand, with the lighting changing, the contours, the bits that were at the back coming to the front etc, can really help flesh something out and aid in choosing which bits to focus on and which not to.
(if you only ever look at it from the same angle with the same lighting, how much are you really seeing)
Sometimes things which seem very different at first sight, upon further investigation can be very similar in essence.

I felt repelled from some of the processes used in some approaches, where the process becomes the thing, directs and constricts. As you put it, they should facilitate your journey, not impose themselves on it, imho.
Hineini wrote: *
There's a nice line paraphrased by Hayes, originally Skinner, "to take the energy inside pathology, and redirect it towards vitality".
Nice quote, much inside that
Hineini wrote: *
its a rabbit hole in itself, my understanding keeps changing as I go along. for all the theory, I appreciate that the emphasis is on the practice of skills. a nice metaphor that resonates with me, is that it's like riding a bike - you're constantly falling, catching yourself and falling again... and once you're going you don't think too much about it, you just enjoy the ride and keep heading to wherever it is you're going.
It also seems quite bitesized so to speak.

You can practice without being an expert, improving bit by bit. As you say, like a bike. You dont have to know it all to start with, or be able to ride big distances.. start off with a few inches and build up as your balance improves.

Another thing this reminds me of.. you do not learn unless you fail. Failures teach you more than successes.

Allowing yourself to fail

in a sense, each of the 6 are a seperate bike, at some point they start to merge.. To start with you can practice with one, then as that becomes more automatic start integrating the others. I can then imagine it snowballing quite effectively.

You dont have to start trying to juggle all the balls, start with one, then when comfortable add another, if its too much, go back to one... etc.. till you are juggling all 6 while holding a coversation.

Thanks for bringing this up, interesting reading and discussion.

_________________
In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 4:26 pm 
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I'll just start with a small comment.

Thank you very much Hineini for bringing this to the forum.

"There is a useful model"
-> It is indeed a very well presented, documented, formal, model.

Almost finished reading "ACT Made simple 2nd Edition" by Russ Harris with a foreword by Stephen Hayes himself. Highly recommend.
Will read A Liberated Mind next as it's the one you recommend.

I have to say that as I've been a member of NF for almost 10 years, you are completely right, on the similarities.

"There are specific threads I could link to each process, but I don't really have the time to do them all now."
-> I'm preparing a "Gems and precious thread" thread on NF vs ACT (I'll take the time soon enough), as you are 100% correct that we have multiple threads on all 6 of those processes.
I am sure that ACT could also add many analogies and exercises from here too. :lol:

I encourage everyone to at least read the wiki page and then a bit some more.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:43 pm 
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GoldenBoy wrote: *
-> I'm preparing a "Gems and precious thread" thread on NF vs ACT (I'll take the time soon enough), as you are 100% correct that we have multiple threads on all 6 of those processes.
Very cool!

To explain further why flexibility seems to me such a touchstone for what we are looking for in natural freedom, is to get back to the basics of purposes here, and by extension values.

In my opinion, and this may be a personal perspective, it is not in the attainment of an outcome - but in the contact with living the process itself. An ACT phrase that is very nice, is the outcome is the process whereby the process becomes the outcome. A mind twister but worth meditating on.

When I ask myself - what is really the point, and what am I looking for? It is not in 'getting what I want', but rather in enjoying the process of living. The dance that takes place between an exciting other. To me natural freedom is trying to answer this question: how do I come back to enjoying the adventure and the unknown?

This relates to two intriguing concepts connected to ACT. The first is an underlying one, and is part of the foundation that ACT is built on: humans are unique in their ability to make rules - and to follow them. This makes us INCREDIBLY efficient and able to have very complicated social structures. However, a feature that makes rules so effective - is also problematic: we continue to follow rules even when they don't work and we lose contact with our experience.

When I think of the Matrix metaphor, I think of it as the ultimate metaphor to describe this on a societal level. The matrix is the societal rules that we live and breathe - and they are necessary for us to function as a society.

Now how does this relate to relationships?

We have the same tendency to make rules in places that they just don't work - and yet we'll make them anyways, and keep following them anyways. IMO when we look at readings on this site - like a Masculinist deconstruction of society - it's not so much whether they are 'the truth' that matters, but more that coming from a radically different perspective, they shake up the water around us and make clear many of the untold assumptions and rules: simply put, the world COULD be understood in a radically different way.

Now the question in my mind - is how to relearn to 'not know' - of course you do know - we learn from our experiences, and from each other. And there's good reason not to be naive. But I'm talking about a non-naive not knowing, an open curiosity if you will. One way of doing this is to bring attention back to noticing whether the rule is working - even the GOLDEN insights on this board can be turned into a non-workable rule. Use it when it works, and let it go when it isn't. Part of doing this means making unconscious rules conscious.

A second interesting idea that I think has relevance here, is that idea that you can become attached to the symbolic at the cost of what is really meaningful to you. In some ways this is rule-following again in action: if I get X, then I will get Y. There are many different levels to this game here:

If I get money/fame/x then I will get the girl;
if i get the girl then I will get love/affection
if i get love/affection then I will feel good about myself
if i feel good about myself then i will do what I want in life

The societal game is all about symbolism at the cost of what is possible here and now. To speak to a recent thread, holding tightly to the feeling that you know / are superior / are really competent etc can keep you from discovering what you don't know, from learning, and from actual contact with what you want - ie actually being competent. viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5056

ACT has some wonderful questions, they are worth pondering over IMO - they can take you towards your values the ways of being that you really most care about, BUT in all likelihood in answering them you may start to get very linguistic.. and that's usually a sign that you're turning them into new rules, and are moving away from the essence of what they are. So I suggest holding them lightly, enjoying them as imaginative exercises, feeling them out without any 'right' answer:

If you could make your life about anything - what would you make it about?

If you were someone else with a different name and appearance, what would you do?

If you could do anything, and not fail?

If you could do anything but no one would ever know - what would you do?

How do you want to be in the world? How do you want to relate to others?

And most importantly, IMO, how do you want to relate to yourself?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:48 pm 
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This is linked to https://naturalfreedom.info/viewtopic.p ... 734#p48734

I like that the book ACT made simple has clear "Nutshells" of the hexaflex / Psychological flexibility skills / processes.

Bonus:
[ img ]
[ img ]

I can do the same for the Smorgasboards (all the recommended exercices for each process) if there is a demand.
GB

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"The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn."
Alvin Toffler


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:50 pm 
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Here they are in text format, feel free to delete my last post images (except the bonuses plz)
Defusion in a Nutshell wrote:
In Plain Language: Fusion means your cognitions dominate your behavior. They dominate your actions (overt behavior) or your attention (covert behavior) or both. Defusion means responding flexibly to your cognitions so they can influence but do not dominate your behavior.

Aims: To see the true nature of cognitions: that they are nothing more or less than constructions of words and pictures. To respond to cognitions more flexibly, in terms of workability rather than literality (that is, in terms of how helpful they are rather than how true or false or positive or negative they are).

Synonyms: Deliteralization (this term is now rarely used); distancing.

Method: We pay attention to our cognitions with:

- Curiosity: See their true nature, as constructions of words and pictures.

- Openness: Explore whether they are helpful or not.

- Flexibility: If our cognitions are helpful, we let them guide us; if not, we let them be.

When to Use: When cognitions dominate behavior (overt or covert) to such an extent that it gets in the way of effective, values-based living.
Self-as-Context in a Nutshell wrote:
In Plain Language: Self-as-context is the part of you that does all the noticing. Metaphorically, it’s like (a) a “safe place” inside you, where you can “open up” and “make room” for difficult thoughts and feelings, and (b) a “perspective” or “viewpoint” from which to “step back” and observe thoughts and feelings. We access this “psychological space” through actively noticing that we are noticing, or, in other words, through deliberately bringing awareness to our own awareness.

Aims: To enhance defusion, especially from the conceptualized self. To enhance acceptance, through accessing a safe and constant viewpoint from which to observe difficult inner experiences. To enhance flexible contact with the present moment. To experience a stable sense of self amid continual change. To experience a transcendent sense of self: that there’s more to you than your body and your mind.

Synonyms: Self-as-perspective, the observing self, the noticing self, the observer self, the silent self, the transcendent self, pure awareness, the continuous you, the part of you that notices, the “I” that notices.

Method: Any ongoing mindfulness practice generally leads to an experience of self-as-context, sooner or later. We can enhance this through exercises that involve actively noticing your own noticing and metaphors that symbolize the noticing self.

When to Use: To facilitate acceptance, especially when the client is afraid of being harmed by her own inner experiences. To facilitate defusion, especially when the client is fused to self-concept. To facilitate a stable sense of self, especially when life is chaotic or involves dramatic changes. To facilitate a transcendent sense of self in response to traumatic events or as an aspect of spiritual growth.
Acceptance in a Nutshell wrote:
In Plain Language: Acceptance means opening up to our inner experiences (thoughts, images, memories, feelings, emotions, urges, impulses, sensations) and allowing them to be as they are, regardless of whether they are pleasant or painful. We open up and make room for them, drop the struggle with them, and allow them to freely come and go, in their own good time.

Aim: To open up to unwanted inner experiences, when doing so enables us to act on our values.

Synonyms: Willingness, expansion, dropping the struggle, opening up, making room.

Method: Make full, open, undefended psychological contact with unwanted inner experiences.

When to Use: When experiential avoidance becomes a barrier to effective values-based living.
Contacting the Present Moment in a Nutshell wrote:
In Plain Language: Contacting the present moment is the ability to flexibly notice your here-and-now experience and to narrow, broaden, sustain, or redirect your focus, as desired.

Aims: To enhance awareness so we can perceive more accurately what’s happening and gather important information about whether to change or persist in behavior. To engage fully in whatever we’re doing for more satisfaction and fulfillment. To train attention so we can perform better or act more effectively.

Synonyms: Flexible attention, being present, connection, awareness, focusing, engaging, noticing, observing.

Method: Notice—with curiosity and openness—what is happening here and now; learn to discriminate between directly noticing your experience and thinking about your experience; pay attention flexibly to both the inner psychological world and the outer material world.

When to Use: When clients are disengaged, disconnected from their own thoughts and feelings, easily distracted, lacking self-awareness, in need of grounding, cut off from or missing out on important aspects of experience, or fused with any type of cognitive content. It’s an essential first step and a “core component” of the other three mindfulness processes: defusion, acceptance, and self-as-context.
Values in a Nutshell wrote:
In Plain Language: Values are words that describe how we want to behave in this moment and on an ongoing basis. In other words, values are your heart’s deepest desires for how you want to behave—how you want to treat yourself, others, and the world around you.

Aim: To clarify our values so we can use them as an ongoing guide, for both overt and covert behavior. We can use them for inspiration, motivation, and guidance to help us do the things that give our lives a sense of meaning or purpose.

Synonyms: Chosen life directions; what you want to stand for; desired personal qualities.

Method: Distinguish values from goals; help clients connect with and clarify their values so they can use them to inspire, motivate, and guide ongoing behavior.

When to Use: When looking for guidance from within; when motivation for action is lacking; as a guide for goal setting and action plans; to facilitate acceptance; to add richness, fulfillment, and meaning to life.
Committed Action in a Nutshell wrote:
In Plain Language: Committed action means taking effective action, guided and motivated by values. This includes physical action (overt behavior) and psychological action (covert behavior). Committed action implies flexible action: readily adapting to the challenges of the situation and either persisting with or changing behavior as required. In other words, doing what it takes to effectively live by your values.

Aim: To translate values into ongoing, evolving, effective, dynamic patterns of overt and covert behavior.

Synonyms: Effective action, flexible action, towards moves, workable behavior.

Method: Translate values into effective patterns of physical and psychological action through the use of goal setting, action planning, problem solving, skills training, role-playing, exposure, behavioral activation, and other empirically supported behavioral interventions.

When to Use: Whenever a client needs help translating values into effective action or overcoming barriers to initiating or sustaining such action.
Bonus:
Russ Harris free stuff : https://www.actmindfully.com.au/free-st ... -chapters/
Values : Bull's eye:
https://s3.studylib.net/store/data/0253 ... 586d30.png

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"The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn."
Alvin Toffler


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:49 pm 
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Hineini wrote: *
In my opinion, and this may be a personal perspective, it is not in the attainment of an outcome - but in the contact with living the process itself. An ACT phrase that is very nice, is the outcome is the process whereby the process becomes the outcome. A mind twister but worth meditating on.
Quote:
There's no destination. The journey is all that there is, and it can be very, very joyful.
viewtopic.php?p=48558#p48558

_________________
In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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