Natural Freedom

Forum for the natural awakening and self-realization of men
It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 6:18 am

All times are UTC+01:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 »
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:31 am
Posts: 29
Okay so I've been reading trough a lot of posts in the treasure chest part, and one thing I've seeing come a lot is the idea of having self discipline.

I have my struggles with this, I mean I sometimes spend more money than I need to, or waste too much time playing video games or wacthing porn, (which really fucks me up, but that's for a different section.)

It's pretty easy for me to do things when I know I HAVE to do, like school work, or going to work, but I'm much less successful at doing things I want to do, in order to better myself.

So my question is, what are some sure fire ways to have more dicipline, and what does it means to you. The way I see it discipline is the ability to tell yourself what to do and to do it, even if you don't feel like it... it's simple but the problem is I can't get myself to do the things I know I should be doing. My main goal is to have habits that I do every day or regularly, like meditating, and exercising.

I don't know if that has been covered yet, if so please let me know.

On a side note, I think that this has a lot to do with being in your comfort zone, instead of doing the right(but sometimes a bit painful) things outside of your comfort zone, like getting off your ass and working out.

thanks

_________________
You might get the impression that when I speak of “Power” I am speaking
of God, and you are right.
-Arman Saij


Last edited by Magnetic91 on Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:31 am
Posts: 29
Also here is a podcast that has to do with this stuff, and he bases his approach on brain science.

http://pickuppodcast.com/2013/01/28/epi ... focus-com/

_________________
You might get the impression that when I speak of “Power” I am speaking
of God, and you are right.
-Arman Saij


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:21 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:07 pm
Posts: 589
Location: The side of a mountain somewhere...
Simple.

You say you have no problem getting things done when you HAVE to do them.

Just setup your situation and your life so that you HAVE to do these things you want to do.

No consequences = no action.

Big consequences (positive or negative) = big action.

_________________
"The society gives you a map; I give you only freedom. The society gives you character, I give you only consciousness. The society teaches you to live a conformist life ... I give you an invitation to go on an adventure." - Osho


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:28 pm
Posts: 30
Rationalizing your way into being disciplined is not going to work in the long run.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:35 pm
Posts: 773
This article (2 parts) has helped me out a lot:

http://waitbutwhy.com/2013/10/why-procr ... inate.html

As well as realizing that doing things good for yourself don't have to feel like a burden or something you trudge through to reach some goal. Doing things good for you in the long-run can feel good (wasn't so in my case).

_________________
Take it easy, man. But take it.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 10:06 pm
Posts: 106
Willpower/discipline is like a muscle which will develop with training but just like a muscle will also grow tired as you use it. Sleep and relaxation are what allows your willpower to recover and glucose is its fuel source, so stable blood sugar levels are important (just like the snickers commercials). It is funny, most people probably would not expect to walk into a gym for the first time ever and be able to bench press 500 lbs but they expect to have sage levels of self discipline without any of the training. Then they berate themselves over this fact, as ridiculous as it sounds.

Studying, going to school, and working are all activities which require and will drain your willpower and self discipline. So obviously you have it, are choosing how your apply it and choosing wisely it seems. You want to do more, but try not to do so much at once. Trying to do too much at once is like instead of increasing your bench press at 5 - 10 lb intervals trying to do it at intervals of 50 - 100 lbs. So in trying to do too much you do not get any stronger and the bar might crush your chest.

I would recommend picking one habit you want more than all the others, and only focus on it. It is funny, when I do this I tend do better in all my goals then when trying to do everything at once (i.e. focusing on working out only makes my training and diet more consistent than trying to do both at once somehow). Once comfortable with that habit, move on to another. Benjamin Franklin had 13 virtues he would cycle through, focusing on one per week and he did this for decades. Never was he perfect and he always performed better at the virtue he was focusing on that week. It seems natural that we will never be perfect, can not focus on all things at once, and as we focus on somethings the others will drop off a bit.

Three good things you can do boost your self discipline are breath meditation up to 15 minutes (this is the only type of meditation and time interval I have seen cited), anaerobic exercise (e.g. lifting weights, other resistance exercises, sprinting, etc.) and getting enough sleep (at least 7 hours for the vast, vast majority of people).

I have read 3 or 4 books on the subject and would recommend these two the most:

http://www.amazon.com/Willpower-Redisco ... n+strength

http://www.amazon.com/The-Willpower-Ins ... n+strength

_________________
“The impediment to action advances action. What stands in the way becomes the way.” — Marcus Aurelius


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:51 pm
Posts: 2046
Location: Laniakea Supercluster
Sounds ponderous. Let go of the
otiose and aimless activities and there´s
your discipline 101. Those are the ones
that kill your vim. Build some structure

And as above, eat&sleep. Fun.

_________________
♫♫♩♫‿◦


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:31 am
Posts: 29
@caster: Thanks man I think your response was the most helpful.

_________________
You might get the impression that when I speak of “Power” I am speaking
of God, and you are right.
-Arman Saij


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:31 am
Posts: 29
Meraki wrote:
Simple.

You say you have no problem getting things done when you HAVE to do them.

Just setup your situation and your life so that you HAVE to do these things you want to do.

No consequences = no action.

Big consequences (positive or negative) = big action.
The problem with this is I don't think I can make big enough (negative) consequences for not doing the good things. They just have a good consequence of their own, but I think my problem was that I'm a bit of a perfectionist and I want to do things right or perfectly so ended up not doing them at all.

These responses have put the peaces together for me though, I'm going to start with the things I wan't to do the most, and take it from there. As well as enjoy the process.

_________________
You might get the impression that when I speak of “Power” I am speaking
of God, and you are right.
-Arman Saij


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:07 pm
Posts: 589
Location: The side of a mountain somewhere...
Magnetic wrote:
The problem with this is I don't think I can make big enough (negative) consequences for not doing the good things. They just have a good consequence of their own, but I think my problem was that I'm a bit of a perfectionist and I want to do things right or perfectly so ended up not doing them at all.
You can always make consequences bigger, just get creative. Write a check for a lot of money to your least favorite political party/organization (radical feminists?) and give it to someone you trust, and if you don't accomplish XYZ externally verifiable thing by a certain date, your friend mails the check off. If "a lot of money" doesn't seem like enough motivation, then how about writing a check for ALL the money you have? How about writing a check for all your money AND also throwing in the deed to your car, and any other valuable possessions you have. How about publicly stating that you are going to do something and making yourself accountable to your friends/family on following through? You can always make consequences big enough, you might just be unwilling to do it.

-------

I do have to ask though, do you really truly actually want to accomplish these goals? Is 100% of you in complete alignment with accomplishing what you have laid out?

Or is there a part of you that doesn't want to accomplish them, and therefore it will subtly and sneakily undercut your best efforts and positive intentions?

Indulge me for a minute with a hypothetical scenario. Lets say you're not very fit/strong. Maybe you're not overweight, but your just kinda puny and soft. You could easily become much stronger by working out consistently for 6 months or a year, and there's nothing stopping you like medical conditions, working 100 hour weeks so you have no time/energy, etc.

Now, lets say growing up your parents were both overweight and extremely sedentary, and they disparaged fit people as "image obsessed," or "dumb jocks." You (being young) were dependent on your parents, so if you went against what they said, then the consequences could have proven disastrous. Therefore, you internalized a "program" that says, "don't be fit and strong, you will be piss your parents off and they will abandon you and it will be dangerous." This program was there to protect you and keep you safe, and it did a good job of that.

Now, you decide you want to be fit and strong, but that little program is still there deep down, and it sabotages your best efforts, saying: "its not safe!" even though you are no longer dependant on your parents. This little part of you makes sure you're not expending energy to do the things you need to do in order to get fit and strong. This causes you to expend your energy fighting against yourself instead, as absurd as that is.

If this is what is really going on, then being given more things to do to get more willpower is counter-productive. The little program running in the background loves "things to do" like reading willpower books, eating the right willpower diet, etc. In reality, doing those things likely is just a way of stalling, procrastinating, etc.

Thats not to say that Caster didn't have some good points - things like focusing only on one thing at a time, giving yourself breaks and time to recharge, etc.

But fundamentally, if there is nothing holding you back, then you don't need any more techniques and there's no secret formula for more willpower. You just need bigger consequences.

Lets look again at what you wrote:
Magnetic wrote:
The problem with this is I don't think I can make big enough (negative) consequences for not doing the good things. They just have a good consequence of their own, but I think my problem was that I'm a bit of a perfectionist and I want to do things right or perfectly so ended up not doing them at all.
Can you see the dismissiveness of this?

Dismissing the idea of creating consequences to me seems like an indication that you have some program running that doesn't want you accomplish what you have in mind. Its causing you to dismiss the idea of consequences, because it knows that consequences will probably work. You yourself said, "It's pretty easy for me to do things when I know I HAVE to." You know that having consequences works for you elsewhere, why wouldn't it work here?

I certainly could be wrong about that (I've been wrong plenty before and will be wrong plenty in the future), but thats what it seems like to me from reading what you wrote.

If you do have a little program running in the background keeping you from doing these things, then you need to acknowledge it, sit with it, thank it for protecting you all these years, and gently show it, one example at a time, that doing the things you are trying to do will not actually put you in any danger.

_________________
"The society gives you a map; I give you only freedom. The society gives you character, I give you only consciousness. The society teaches you to live a conformist life ... I give you an invitation to go on an adventure." - Osho


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:51 pm
Posts: 2046
Location: Laniakea Supercluster
Magnetic91 wrote:

These responses have put the peaces together for me though, I'm going to start with the things I wan't to do the most, and take it from there. As well as enjoy the process.
What will happen when a stronger want
takes over(?)

Are you going to try and fight it off and
waste Energy doing that(?)

When you stay an aware person, no false desires
distract you from your real path.

Be conscious now.

_________________
♫♫♩♫‿◦


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:51 pm
Posts: 1414
You'll never win with willpower, willpower is shit and never works. What works is either moving away from something terrifying or towards something you exciting. And moving away from something terrifying always works better.

_________________
The honey doesn't chase the bee.

A wise man once said "I find that a duck's opinion of me is influenced by whether or not I have bread."


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 6:49 am
Posts: 5112
Star_Above wrote:
You'll never win with willpower, willpower is shit and never works. What works is either moving away from something terrifying or towards something you exciting. And moving away from something terrifying always works better.
Haha very nicely put, ShitBulbasaur. :twisted:

_________________
EVERYTHING in life is conditional...EVERYTHING. :ugeek:

Pimposophy Revisited is now finally available on Amazon in all territories!


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:55 pm
Posts: 3428
Location: Canada
Star_Above wrote:
You'll never win with willpower, willpower is shit and never works. What works is either moving away from something terrifying or towards something you exciting. And moving away from something terrifying always works better.
So true lol

_________________
"The heart is deep beyond all things, and it is the man. Even so, who can know him."


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:07 pm
Posts: 589
Location: The side of a mountain somewhere...
Star wrote:
You'll never win with willpower, willpower is shit and never works. What works is either moving away from something terrifying or towards something you exciting. And moving away from something terrifying always works better.
Ding ding ding ding.

_________________
"The society gives you a map; I give you only freedom. The society gives you character, I give you only consciousness. The society teaches you to live a conformist life ... I give you an invitation to go on an adventure." - Osho


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:43 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:18 am
Posts: 1735
Great Star_Above!

I remembered this Tonny Robbins quote, kind of incomplete, you said it better:
Quote:
The secret of success is learning how to use pain and pleasure instead of having pain and pleasure use you. If you do that, you're in control of your life. If you don't, life controls you.
Tony Robbins
And the how to?... I'll take a shot at it;

So learn how to make more painful [terrifying] your current situation, until you don't have no choice but to get the fuck out of there and never want to come back like, never.

_________________
GMST
:ugeek:


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 10:06 pm
Posts: 106
Star_Above wrote:
You'll never win with willpower, willpower is shit and never works. What works is either moving away from something terrifying or towards something you exciting. And moving away from something terrifying always works better.
Everywhere in this world there are people who are doing things that they know to have terrifying, or extremely negative consequence and yet they still do those things. Things like getting in a car drunk and driving despite being arrested multiple times for it, having an affair while being high ranking politicians and with everything to lose or being a well paid, educated professional like a doctor or a lawyer and still doing hard drugs known to destroy the human body.

Willpower is just a base attribute like strength or intelligence. It is how able someone is to decide to postpone pleasure or endure pain in order to obtain greater pleasure or avoid suffering a greater pain. The most important thing about it is, like strength and intelligence, it is finite. No matter how large you make your gas tank you will eventually run out of fuel. So what works is arranging our lives in order to avoid straining it e.g. if you are are trying to lose weight avoid the all you can eat buffets. Most people's conception of willpower is going to the buffet and being completely immune to it, forever and of course that doesn't work.

_________________
“The impediment to action advances action. What stands in the way becomes the way.” — Marcus Aurelius


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:28 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:51 pm
Posts: 1414
caster wrote:
Everywhere in this world there are people who are doing things that they know to have terrifying, or extremely negative consequence and yet they still do those things. Things like getting in a car drunk and driving despite being arrested multiple times for it, having an affair while being high ranking politicians and with everything to lose or being a well paid, educated professional like a doctor or a lawyer and still doing hard drugs known to destroy the human body.
There's always gotta be one :roll:

Those things may be terrifying to you, but those people don't link enough pain to those things to make them scary enough for them otherwise they wouldn't do it.

Trust me, if the guy that got arrested multiple times was going to Pelican bay on his next offence and knew he was gonna get steamrolled up his fuck'n ass and have the shit kicked out of him everyday instead of going to the minimum security jail he's use that puts no terror in him, and the new circumstance is unimaginable, he wouldn't be arrested again.

The drugs, the people don't think the consequenses will be till further down the road, it's not an immediete threat so it doesn't scare them enough, which is why people smoke. Then if those consequences come, maybe dying isn't scary enough, maybe their terrified of hospitals and that's enough to do it. It's all personal perception of what you find frightening.

And Dali's post is right on the mark.

_________________
The honey doesn't chase the bee.

A wise man once said "I find that a duck's opinion of me is influenced by whether or not I have bread."


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:54 am
Posts: 411
Location: Levelling up.
We're always told, 'Get out of your comfort zone!', and that saying has value for obvious reasons. However, what if you were to start seeking your real comfort zone?

In other words, start doing the little things which you feel inclined to do and what brings you a good vibe.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 10:06 pm
Posts: 106
Unfortunately for that pelican bay anecdote the prison system doesn't seem terribly effective at preventing repeat offenses. Even in places where the punishment for stealing is hand amputation and death for adultery, people still steal and have affairs. Being able to see the negative long term consequences and adjusting our behavior accordingly is the definition of willpower. So is not being ruled by the pursuit of pleasure or avoidance of pain. I don't disagree with you star, its just that what you prescribe is willpower by a different name.

_________________
“The impediment to action advances action. What stands in the way becomes the way.” — Marcus Aurelius


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 »

All times are UTC+01:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to: 

cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited