Natural Freedom

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:42 pm 
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I used to base my self-worth on things outside of myself.
Things like:

How were my relationships with my friends?

How many friends did I have?

Was I popular?

Did my parents think highly of me?

Was I in a relationship?

Did girls like me?

Was I cool?

Did people like me?

-

The whole thing was setup to give my power away!
My self-worth fluctuated likes waves at shore; I would have moments of ‘lulls’ and then ‘big crashes’.
With that setup I had NO peace-of-mind.

Now, things are different. I base my self-worth on what I can control and beyond that perspective I’m letting go of the belief that I have to achieve something in order to ‘have’ self-worth.

Fuck.that.shit!

I "have" self-worth just because I'm myself, authentically, and I'm a part of this universe. That’s all.

I finish and I point you to this:
peregrinus wrote:
In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.
What do you base your Self-Worth on?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:54 pm 
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A while ago, it was based on the premise that I am unlovable. Thus it fluctuated based on the reactions of people around me, and I was very sensitive to this. Acceptance by others meant a momentary cover-up of that "dark part" of me.

Realizing that everybody is, at a core level, completely equal in their self-worth (but may have higher/lower worth based on different situations) means, to me, not really thinking about my self-worth. I'll be momentarily proud if I am doing things that I plan to and am being congruent with my long-term wants, or a little harder on myself if I do the opposite, but that would be out of self-love and not self-hate.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:31 pm 
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(Who is the judge?)

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:48 pm 
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I know what you mean Argaron.

Jared wrote:
(Who is the judge?)
The critic inside.

If I think "highly" of myself to me makes me imagine a Man continuously blowing into a balloon to show himself and others how BIG it is, but if he stops it will gradually or immediately deflate itself.

I have values and priorities. They reflect where I am and what type of person I am in that moment. Will they change in time? Yes.

Having "self-worth" is not real to me. Just smells of ego.

Reminds of this quote from here: "Tell me what a man finds a sexually attractive and I will tell you his entire philosophy of life. Show me the women he sleeps with and I will tell you his valuation of himself."

Values of a person tell you a lot about a person. Jared you said this before here.

I pointed to Peregrinus's sig, because to me when you take away all the bullshit layers you are left with yourself as you are. Once the person can accept what they find, they won't need to put more layers on top of themselves to feel comfortable with themselves.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:59 am 
bliss wrote:
Having "self-worth" is not real to me. Just smells of ego.

Reminds of this quote from here: "Tell me what a man finds a sexually attractive and I will tell you his entire philosophy of life. Show me the women he sleeps with and I will tell you his valuation of himself."

Values of a person tell you a lot about a person. Jared you said this before here.

I pointed to Peregrinus's sig, because to me when you take away all the bullshit layers you are left with yourself as you are. Once the person can accept what they find, they won't need to put more layers on top of themselves to feel comfortable with themselves.
Self-worth isn't what you're looking for. Self-respect is what you're looking for. The self-respect leads to esteem and self-worth. How you treat yourself will always reflect how others perceive you and how you feel, not that you'll care though. :geek:

I like that quote. I just recently had an experience that changed what I will and won't accept in women. There were some parts I liked and didn't like, but what I enjoyed most was getting to really see myself for who I am for a brief moment. It was pretty visceral. It was like staring into an invisible mirror. Some parts were useful. Other parts should be discarded.

[I wasn't talking about Grinus's quote. It does apply though.]


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:59 am 
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Quote:
Having "self-worth" is not real to me. Just smells of ego.
Eh, I don't know about this one and think you're projecting a bit here.

Self-worth is tied to a fundamental feeling of being capable for life (I'm paraphrasing Nathaniel Branden here). If you don't feel you stack up, then come the self-sabotage, inferiority complexes, etc.

So while thinking "I'm more worthy than that motherfucker over there, I'll show them!" reeks of ego, having a philosophy of being just as able and capable of doing and having whatever you want as other people (with a certain level of effort and sacrifice always being involved, of course) IS how self-worth should be viewed.

I'm drawing from personal experience here, with frequent panic attacks at the most mundane things causing procrastination (which, of course, led to self-hate, and the cycle continued). I couldn't clean my room without feeling like I wasn't able to do it properly.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:44 pm 
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myself.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:00 pm 
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bliss wrote:
Jared wrote:
(Who is the judge?)


The critic inside.
The question is much more significant than a label.

What is the thing that sees itself as separate from 'myself' to be able to have an opinion of it one way or the other - that it's worthy or not. What is the foundation of that inner critic, is it an actual, real thing? Is it a pattern of thoughts that's now being perceived as some type of entity?

What is it then that is actually observing the critic, and taking its voice seriously or not?

Is something actually self referencing, or are you drawing a picture of an idea about yourself, then you are reacting emotionally to whether this generated image lives up to a set of preferences.. which come from where?

The point is to actually look. You may find that an enormous amount of this subject is actually a dog chasing it's tail. Thoughts and ideas referencing other ones. Trying to find the proper perspective on something that is actually a mirage.

See what is actually happening and the whole bubble may burst.

Without a division there is only an unshakeable sense of peace. A split needs to occur for myself to feel some way about myself. Look at this division itself rather than trying to adjust one half so the other feels happier. It's an illusion. Just because you can't remember a time in your life before this doesn't make it real, just because it feels very real doesn't make it so - the only way to EVER see that the sun is not actually moving around the earth every day is to view the whole thing from a different perspective.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:07 pm 
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@Slim

Good point. Self-respect I stand for and it resonates.

-

@Aragorn

I'm not sure if I was projecting.

What I was pointing to for myself was 'The Matrix' creates "self-esteem".
"Some have more of it and some don't".

Animals, I feel, don't think of this.
They are just BEING what they are.
They act in their own best interest to survive. [Self-respect]

The Matrix created this shit.

"I feel good about myself"
"I deserve to have this"
Who is the "I" in the subject.

Reminds me of a zen saying: when hungry eat, when tired sleep.

Just BE.

Just my thoughts and something I going through right now.

-

@Flow

Yeah flow I understand what you are saying, at least in my eyes I do. Especially about the being split. I came from the angle that I had a Me (my "true self") and then my ego ("false-self"). Both occupy the same place. Seeing it as a split caused more good than bad. All of it resides when I choose to live in the moment.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:28 pm 
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I try to remember that the past is fate, the present is how it should be and the future is going to unfold how it will. Everything dies, people, societies, races, species, planets, stars, galaxies and possibly even the universe itself one day. Given that no one knows the names of their own ancestors looking back a brief 10,000 years it is a safe assumption that in a 14 billion years old universe, eventually all that has been or will be on an individual scale will fade from memory or detection. Our solar system was formed from the deaths of stars we know little to nothing about. So I am about as valuable as any man who has ever lived or will live. Just another part of the whole.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:13 pm 
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caster wrote:
I try to remember that the past is fate, the present is how it should be and the future is going to unfold how it will. Everything dies, people, societies, races, species, planets, stars, galaxies and possibly even the universe itself one day. Given that no one knows the names of their own ancestors looking back a brief 10,000 years it is a safe assumption that in a 14 billion years old universe, eventually all that has been or will be on an individual scale will fade from memory or detection. Our solar system was formed from the deaths of stars we know little to nothing about. So I am about as valuable as any man who has ever lived or will live. Just another part of the whole.
That pretty much logically leads to that present moment is the only thing that matters ?
(Still considering you are not going to jump from a mountain just for the momentary feeling of flying, because you will logically figure that you would die etc)


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:36 am 
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Well to me, and my thinking is more stoic than non-dualistic, the present is the only thing you will ever own. But it doesn't necessarily matter, you will always have it do with what you will. What matters are perspective, choices and intentions, basically how you excercise those things that are up to you, in the present moment. All else is in the realm of indifference.

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“The impediment to action advances action. What stands in the way becomes the way.” — Marcus Aurelius


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 2:31 pm 
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caster wrote:
Just another part of the whole.
My thoughts as well.

It's pulling off the false 'stories' I've told myself to reveal whats left, me as I am, without stories, enjoying life as it happens. "Just another part of the whole".

I also feel, I'll speak for myself, that we are trained to feel the 'void' is a dark scary place we are conditioned to fill with nonsense from birth to add a sense of meaning and "know-what-will-happen" type of thing to our life. We will all die someday, knowing that could be liberating in itself, instead of feared.

Just some my thoughts. Typing this made me think of this: what is fear.


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