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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:12 am 
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lately I have been trying to get back to doing meditation, I was doing meditation in the past but I was not so good at it....
about two weeks ago a friend of mine recommended that I check Dr. Frank Kinslow's book.

Frank Kinslow is a teacher of meditation, Eastern philosophy and non duality.

I'm still using David R. Hawkins's book 'Letting Go: The Pathway of Surrender' to deal with emotions
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=3667

or the sedona method

But....when I started to practice the meditation as Frank Kinslow teaches it, it made everything much much easier.

Frank also talks about healing negative emotions in his book but I did not go into the healing stuff. I only took the meditation Technic...

the book I read was:
'The Secret of Quantum Living' by Frank J. Kinslow
http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Quantum-Li ... 8&sr=&qid=

if anyone is interested contact our book keeper 'Dali' and we will try to arrange something

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:11 pm 
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Why don't you use Meditation to talk to your Demons (aka Shadow work)?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:17 pm 
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eldora wrote:
Why don't you use Meditation to talk to your Demons (aka Shadow work)?
you always have to face your demons there is no escape from it. But...
demons aren't so powerful if you practice this Technic

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:20 pm 
You're assuming that he's not doing that.

Check out the lounge for good search terms. They all deal with that.

Demons is tossed around by The Kidd!! because that's the term he uses to describe core inferiority complexes and pockets of emotional trauma (aka negative emotions).

Through searching and healing your emotions you find the core issues that you haven't dealt with properly (Aka your demons). You then may reenact or relive the experience and replace the problem with a new perspective and different emotional outlook (Aka awareness).

Afterwards, you work to maintain your healthy perspective and use the negative experiences that caused your core trauma to channel out something to your benefit, a healthy and balanced response to situations that used to incite the damage you had.

Edit: Nevermind


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:31 am 
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If you relate "Demons" with just emotional work , then that is just a pretty narrow view of what working the Shadow is about.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:22 am 
eldora wrote:
If you relate "Demons" with just emotional work , then that is just a pretty narrow view of what working the Shadow is about.
Edit: ^^^^Also, this is not equivalent.

You're definitely assuming way too much. :ugeek:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:35 am 
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eldora wrote:
If you relate "Demons" with just emotional work , then that is just a pretty narrow view of what working the Shadow is about.
you are jumping to conclusions seems like you don't get it

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:00 pm 
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eldora wrote:
If you relate "Demons" with just emotional work , then that is just a pretty narrow view of what working the Shadow is about.
What is the Shadow about?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:22 pm 
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moose35 wrote:
eldora wrote:
If you relate "Demons" with just emotional work , then that is just a pretty narrow view of what working the Shadow is about.
What is the Shadow about?

Shadow

A shadow is an area where light from a light source is obstructed by an object. It occupies all of the space behind an opaque object with light in front of it. The cross section of a shadow is a two-dimensional silhouette, or reverse projection of the object blocking the light. Sunlight causes many objects to have shadows at certain times of the day. The angle of the sun, its apparent height in the sky causes a change in the length of shadows. Low-angles create longer shadows.

Psychological Shadow and Jung:
In Jungian psychology, the shadow or "shadow aspect" may refer to (1) an unconscious aspect of the personality which the conscious ego does not identify in itself. Because one tends to reject or remain ignorant of the least desirable aspects of one's personality, the shadow is largely negative, or (2) the entirety of the unconscious, i.e., everything of which a person is not fully conscious. There are, however, positive aspects which may also remain hidden in one's shadow (especially in people with low self-esteem).[1] Contrary to a Freudian definition of shadow, therefore, the Jungian shadow can include everything outside the light of consciousness, and may be positive or negative. "Everyone carries a shadow," Jung wrote, "and the less it is embodied in the individual's conscious life, the blacker and denser it is."[2] It may be (in part) one's link to more primitive animal instincts,[3] which are superseded during early childhood by the conscious mind.

According to Jung, the shadow, in being instinctive and irrational, is prone to psychological projection, in which a perceived personal inferiority is recognised as a perceived moral deficiency in someone else. Jung writes that if these projections remain hidden, "The projection-making factor (the Shadow archetype) then has a free hand and can realize its object--if it has one--or bring about some other situation characteristic of its power." [4] These projections insulate and harm individuals by acting as a constantly thickening veil of illusion between the ego and the real world.

From one perspective, 'the shadow...is roughly equivalent to the whole of the Freudian unconscious';[5] and Jung himself asserted that 'the result of the Freudian method of elucidation is a minute elaboration of man's shadow-side unexampled in any previous age'.[6]

Jung also believed that "in spite of its function as a reservoir for human darkness—or perhaps because of this—the shadow is the seat of creativity.";[7] so that for some, it may be, 'the dark side of his being, his sinister shadow...represents the true spirit of life as against the arid scholar'.[8]

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:33 pm 
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It's a great thing to work with, and the most effective things I have come across do so - even if they use different models and terminology to describe it.

There is a yin/yang of inner work. You need to develop some capacity to be able to fully present with things without an agenda, to be able to see them for what they actually are even if there is a lot of discomfort, which is unnatural to us. More yin forms of pure meditation/allowing etc. are great for this. There are also a number of things that may drop away or resolve themselves simply by taking your hands off of them in this manner.

When you can be with something, not stuck in concepts about it or obsessed with getting rid of it / 'improving' it, then it's 1000x more effective foundation to do the more proactive type of inner work.. inquiry, shadow work, whatever approach you like. The balance of this is super powerful.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:14 pm 
Flow83 wrote:
There is a yin/yang of inner work. You need to develop some capacity to be able to fully present with things without an agenda, to be able to see them for what they actually are even if there is a lot of discomfort, which is unnatural to us. More yin forms of pure meditation/allowing etc. are great for this. There are also a number of things that may drop away or resolve themselves simply by taking your hands off of them in this manner.

When you can be with something, not stuck in concepts about it or obsessed with getting rid of it / 'improving' it, then it's 1000x more effective foundation to do the more proactive type of inner work.. inquiry, shadow work, whatever approach you like. The balance of this is super powerful.
If you're working with your demons (or emotional issues) then you will see images that have shaped your unconscious. Once, you allow the emotional issues and remove the attachment to the problems that your inner child have you can forsake the dark grip it's had on you. The positive aspects of your unconscious will start to reveal their self in your action, sometimes immediately.

When your perspective is balanced and you recall the positive images then you will begin to see your strengths as well as weaknesses with the negative images. You have to see both to be able to accept them as they are. It's even wrong for me to associate them as positive or negative because that depends on your perspective.

If you're just asking questions like why you can access some stuff but not others and keep knocking then the door may open. It may not, but that's no reason not to keep asking.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:13 pm 
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We are very fragmented in our innerworld that we can hardly see we step into different Identities during our day. There is a lot more that just the InnerChild although this aspect/identity is one of closest to our Core there a lot more. Our Unconcious is controlled by Archetypes which are simply Gestalt of Patterns but very powerful forces, and this Patterns influence our Identities unfortunately not on very harmonious way. So once you are done with 101-level-type of innerwork the next step is to start Integrating your Inner Team. Read some JUNG.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:30 pm 
Have you ever thought that you don't need to work with that stuff individually? That seems tedious. :lol:

I don't think I need to read Jung if that's the case, or possibly, you interpreted how to take action incorrectly. :geek:

If you're fragmented then there was one piece. :ugeek:

You have to know what you were like before there was a fragmentation because you wouldn't ever know of a fragmentation.

So, I'll pass on JUNG's constructed archetypes because I don't need labels. You sound like you're adding in more interference than you need to. If I do read him it will be for pleasure not for questions and answers. That's for me to figure out myself.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:57 am 
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eldora wrote:
We are very fragmented in our innerworld that we can hardly see we step into different Identities during our day. There is a lot more that just the InnerChild although this aspect/identity is one of closest to our Core there a lot more. Our Unconcious is controlled by Archetypes which are simply Gestalt of Patterns but very powerful forces, and this Patterns influence our Identities unfortunately not on very harmonious way. So once you are done with 101-level-type of innerwork the next step is to start Integrating your Inner Team. Read some JUNG.
emotions don't give a shit what you call them, how you label them or what Archetype you are playing.

You can read Jung (I read some of his stuff) but being too caught up with concepts isn't going to change anything. I also like to keep it simple because once I start to get too analytical it becomes a diversion and misses the point.

Whatever method or system you choose it's fine but don't get too caught up in concepts because it's pointless. There is also not only one way of "doing it right".

In the end all ways point inwards

There are many methods\systems

Lester Levenson (the 6 steps)
David R. Hawkins
JAI
Byron Katie (The Work)
EFT
Quantum Entrainment

all methods or systems have the same goal and tell you to deal with the shadows...

questions is: why are you so stuck with the Jung thing trying to tell everyone that this is the only way? :|

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:44 pm 
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Slim Titan wrote:
Have you ever thought that you don't need to work with that stuff individually? That seems tedious. :lol:


If you're fragmented then there was one piece. :ugeek:


You have to know what you were like before there was a fragmentation because you wouldn't ever know of a fragmentation.

So, I'll pass on JUNG's constructed archetypes because I don't need labels. You sound like you're adding in more interference than you need to. If I do read him it will be for pleasure not for questions and answers. That's for me to figure out myself.
I can assure that its a lot less tedious than doing TFT or doing the Sedona Method over and over again to discharge the emotional ridges,which in the end this same Ridge Charge gets recreated from the deepest areas of your Mind due to a lack of work on you Inner Structures, this Inner Structures (Personalities,Aspects,Identities, Archetypes,etc) are the ones using the resources of your Mind.

One simptom that can you show you in real time that you are fragmented is when you notice that your Interests, Attentions, Thoughts,etc are normally projected out on several directions during your day, this obviously is not new at all , budhism 101 teaches this.

Labels are simply the way you can get in touch with those aspects. It is just some sort Abstract Symbol that allows you awareness to create a link of communication with those Identities, and the communication can be as just thoughts, body sensations, emotions, Images,etc.

And Nop, a Label is not an interference is a way to connect (along with the Intention) to those Gestalts in a more efficient way.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:03 pm 
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Sniper wrote:

emotions don't give a shit what you call them, how you label them or what Archetype you are playing.

You can read Jung (I read some of his stuff) but being too caught up with concepts isn't going to change anything. I also like to keep it simple because once I start to get too analytical it becomes a diversion and misses the point.

Whatever method or system you choose it's fine but don't get too caught up in concepts because it's pointless. There is also not only one way of "doing it right".

In the end all ways point inwards

There are many methods\systems

Lester Levenson (the 6 steps)
David R. Hawkins
JAI
Byron Katie (The Work)
EFT
Quantum Entrainment

all methods or systems have the same goal and tell you to deal with the shadows...

questions is: why are you so stuck with the Jung thing trying to tell everyone that this is the only way? :|
If you visualize an Archetype , Identities or Aspect consisting of only Emotions, I would say then you might be right. But those Structure are living beings within you, they consist of Emotions,Body Sensations , Thought and Images just to name the main elements, they are You, your Inner Team.

Concepts can work on you favor if you understand them . How do you think the Society controls or manipulate you ? If you do not understand the concept of Structure of something how can you make any changes on it ? it is not about Analyzing till you brain dry up . It's about using the unlimited potential of the Abstraction of your Mind.

Yeah, agree that if it works you can continue to use those, I use some of the them myself. The difference is the Results you can get from them, and until now I have not found anything similar or close to the transformation you can get from applying this way, it is up to you whether you want to get results in 6 months of doing Mental Pushups or in just 1 Month of working with your Inner Structure (once you get the hang of it obviously, it take some practice to adopt this type of work ) .

check this out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hizRTWkG184


And no, it is not hooey ;)


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:25 pm 
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eldora wrote:
Concepts can work on you favor if you understand them . How do you think the Society controls or manipulate you ? If you do not understand the concept of Structure of something how can you make any changes on it ? it is not about Analyzing till you brain dry up . It's about using the unlimited potential of the Abstraction of your Mind.
I'm not against concepts
Lester Levenson & David R. Hawkins both have the chart of emotions which is very powerful.
Also the three wants that Lester talked about is very good.

I'm open to hear and read new things. Do you have any specific book you recommend in regards to shadow work?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:56 pm 
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This territory very strongly compliments the other techniques mentioned, and can be some of the most powerful territory to apply them to.

Again a lot of things refer to this but use totally different terms, some are more psychologically oriented, some more spiritual and so on - but this concept of integrating disowned energies is enormous. It's not very present in most of the techniques listed above but they can greatly set the stage or be used as tools in this, as Eldora wrote. Remember that terms like inner beings, energies, different voices (as in voice dialogue, one type of therapy for this,) fragmented self- they are just ways of giving a model to communicate and conceptualize this thing -- The actual phenomenon itself is very real, you are directly experiencing it constantly and when something is integrated you unquestionably experience that, even if you never would have used the terms, don't let the descriptions or semantics trip you up.. this is a very visceral thing.

Men in particular seem to really resonate with archetypes for inner work because they can really help get us in touch with these 'energies.' When you just talk about them psychologically it can fall flat, but the image of a warrior fighting a dragon, or a father training with his young son, protecting the family from an intruder assault etc you can viscerally feel a lot of these qualities, and then how much are open to them or how much inner resistance to them there is. It's basically why men tend to like the movies / anime / video games and so on that we do. A specific type of character or person you particularly hate or have strong aversions to tells you much. I like the term inner team because it is a good visual, these are all aspects of yourself and if they aren't playing well together there are going to be issues, and you CANT get rid of these players.. the more you try the more you are actually just suppressing them and projecting them onto others.

You mentioned JAI which is a totally yin, allowing things as they are type of meditation. The next phase of that is heavily oriented towards this idea of looking at disowned parts of yourself and integrating them, coming from that place of acceptance (something I've seen communicated in various ways on this forum) - and is named "inner reconciliation." Voice dialogue has been very cool. Those don't often use the word shadow but there are some books and other things that focus specifically on the model of shadow, which is those qualities that are more disowned. Since you mentioned Lester/letting go stuff, the shadow material falls more the aversion side of things, very generally speaking, which as you know is very often much more subtle and more charged than the attachment side.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:05 pm 
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Flow83 wrote:
Since you mentioned Lester/letting go stuff, the shadow material falls more the aversion side of things, very generally speaking, which as you know is very often much more subtle and more charged than the attachment side.
Thanks for the reminder, you are right :geek:

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:03 am 
I'm definitely not denying that there is no inner team or that archetypes are fake. However, Jung's archetypes are constructed. They have Jung's analysis filtering out their essence. I'm not about to start adding more filtering. It's why I haven't committed to a specific technique yet or bothered to read more psychology.

I would like to hear more about voice dialogue Flow. I'm not sure if I've already been doing that. It resonated with me though.

The JAI sounds interesting. That's from the balls project right?


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