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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:21 pm 
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Ok, so Diego PMed me this question and we had a good back and forth. I asked him if I could post it as other people might find it useful and he said go for it, so here it is:

Diego wrote:
I am very curious about what your inner work path has been to get you to this point. You share a lot of stories including volunteering at zen monasteries, hiking in South America, running your own businesses, and my favorite: the bird in an oak tree metaphor, however, I am not clear on the groundwork that got you there.

I have some ideas and conjectures, but thought it is better to just ask you outright. I would love to pick your brain on that matter if you are open to sharing.

What specific strategies have failed for you in your path to inner wellbeing and indifference? How have you actively released and let go of attachments that were pervasive?

The reason I ask is because in the past I have struggled and been too goal oriented when it comes to inner work. One of the key lessons I have drawn from others who are more advanced on this path, is that they tend to stick to doing the inner work, and consistency yields exponential rewards. Correct me if I am wrong on that statement.

Also, I have noticed that trying to take on too much and overexert pressure in the hopes of forcing an outcome or result, is just ineffective and dumb. I learned that trying to dive right in and frantically practice inner work techniques would lead me to burnout and stop doing them altogether.


My response:
I'm happy to share about my process. Basically, I was heavily motivated to figure out how to relieve the suffering I experienced for ~10 years over my parent's relationship and how it affected me growing up. I wrote about my parents as literally my very first post on the forum, go look it up if you aren't familiar with it.

So, at about age 16 I started to become conscious of how fucked my parents were, and when I turned 18 and went off to college, the space I got from my parents allowed me to really start reflecting on them and my childhood and I got very angry at my mother. This pretty much continued unabated till I was maybe 27, and basically the only thing that modulated it was that the more contact I had with my parents, the more angry I was. So I moved away, only talked to my parents on the phone a couple times a year, stopped coming home for holidays, and didn't see them in person for a little over 2 years at one point.

But none of this really changed anything at a fundamental level, and when I was 27, I decided that space and avoiding my parents clearly hadn't made any progress towards solving the problem, so I needed to figure out and do something about it.

So, I had been volunteering at this Zen monastery for a while because it was a really fascinating and cool place, and being exposed to zen concepts had definitely given me some good insights that helped me through some stuff. When I decided I really needed to look into it and start working hard on improving my relationship with my parents, I decided to keep working down the Zen track. The problem with Zen, however, is that in a vacuum, a lot of Zen concepts and teachings are just straight up confusing. Some of that is the translation from japanese, but a lot of zen is intentionally obtuse and more or less meant to confuse the mind.

I'm super logical and analytical, so while some zen concepts were really helpful, I needed something a little more concrete/applicable. I dabbled in some other eastern or eastern inspired teachings for a while, but didn't really find anything that really worked for me until I came across the Balls Project and GP Walsh. So much wisdom there and both he and Evan are also really good at explaining things in a way that makes them understandable and useable.

So, over the last 2-ish years, I've really made wonderful progress. I was able to finally let go of my anger over my parents almost a year ago. I won't say that I've reached some place of totally permanent inner peace, but I'm internally peaceful almost all of the time now (which also means external results come more easily to me now too, since I'm not fighting myself very much anymore either).

The process I've settled on that seems to work for me is trigger > allow > inquire. First something triggers me in some way, then I focus on allowing whatever is happening, whatever I'm feeling, whatever is coming up, whatever is triggering me. This isn't always easy to do, but the more I've worked at allowing all the things that arise, as they happen, the better I've gotten at it. Allowing becomes more of a default posture that I take towards everything.

Then, after I have allowed whatever it is, I inquire as to why it came up, why it bothered me, etc. So lets say a girl I'm interested in seems to be interested in me, things seem to be going well, and then all of the sudden she clams up and starts being standoffish and avoiding me for no apparent reason. So, if this were to happen I'd probably feel a bit miffed for a little bit, but then I would recognize that I'm wanting things to be different than they actually are, that I'm resisting reality, that I'm not allowing, and just recognizing that I will just let go of being miffed and allow everything to be exactly as it is. Once I'm no longer feeling upset or like I want things to be different, it really helps me to think and journal for a little bit about why the girl changing tack bothered me. The point of this inquiry isn't to solve anything (its all already solved just through allowing, and therefore there is no goal because everything is already fine exactly how it is), but rather just to understand my reactions and my experience, and just understanding it helps me to allow it and helps it to not arise as often in the future. For me this is what "doing pushups" is.

Finally, the other big part of this is that I discovered non-duality/advaita, and I really dove into that pretty heavy as well. I didn't go into it in order to get any sort of relief or improvement in my life or anything, but rather I was just really curious and really wanted to understand it. That said, once I really got down down right to the depths of non-dual inquiry, the realizations I had made it much easier to allow and inquire about more 'superficial' things that were triggering me. Its not like non-dual inquiry is a way to make your life better, but at the same time I cannot deny that non-dual inquiry certainly did change my life and my perspective in a positive way.

Anyway, I hope that answers some of your questions. Let me know if you have followup questions. 8-)

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:24 pm 
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Diego then responded:
Diego wrote:
Thanks for being so thorough. Now I have a good grasp on where you are coming from.

When you mention the process: trigger > allow > inquire, could you expand a bit on the inquiring process? I am very curious as to how you engage in this inquiry, and if it mimics the process used for non-duality.

Do you set aside time to do inner work? I am curious to know if this is a discipline for you, or more or less something you do on the go, but happen to practice every day.

And I replied:


Diego wrote:
When you mention the process: trigger > allow > inquire, could you expand a bit on the inquiring process? I am very curious as to how you engage in this inquiry.


Well, the first part (trigger) is heavily based in observation. The benefits of observation are preached quite a lot around here, but usually in the form of observing girls, environments, etc. What I'm talking about is observing yourself.

So, let me use an example that hopefully you can relate to. Say theres a girl you like and who flirts with you and seems really into you and is choosing you, but she has a boyfriend who's a friend of yours, so you wouldn't be OK being the guy she cheats on him with. Maybe when you hang out with this girl, there's a part of you that is uncomfortable in some way, or slightly stressed, or maybe you're grumpy or feel a bit down after she leaves, etc, because she's hot and seems awesome and she seems totally down, but your buddy is in the way, and even though she's down for you, she won't break up with your buddy. That is the trigger.

Observing yourself, you can identify, "oh, I've gotten attached to something happening with this girl, and that is causing me to feel these uncomfortable feelings, causing me to suffer." Being able to identify and label the trigger through observation is very key, and the faster you are able to do it, the easier this whole process becomes.

Once you can label the trigger and identify what is happening, you can then take on the posture of allowing, which should bring a lot of relief from the uncomfortable feelings quite quickly. If you still feel uncomfortable, then keep focusing on allowing more. Once you are truly allowing, you will not feel any uncomfortable feelings around her, and you won't suffer over her.

Then, once you no longer feel that emotional charge, you can inquire into why this hot girl with a boyfriend in particular bothered you. There probably have been plenty of other attractive girls who demonstrate that they are choosing you, but yet they have a boyfriend, and these other hot girls are easy to let go and you don't suffer over them. So why suffer over this one? Maybe you ponder over this, journal over it, and you realize that this particular girl caused you to suffer not because of anything related to her, but because you are actually jealous of your buddy (her boyfriend), and that is the real root of the suffering. Now you can allow and let go of your jealousy of the boyfriend too, which will relieve even more suffering around the issue.

After you've allowed fully (which you may be able to do right away, or may take time), you can hang out with the girl and with your buddy and you don't feel any emotional charge, any trigger at all any more. That means the process was successful.

Maybe you have a lot of attachments, so maybe you still feel a lot of suffering, but this one particular flavor of suffering isn't there anymore, and now you can go to work on the other attachments you have, the other things that trigger you.

Eventually, you get to the point where you almost never get triggered anymore, and when you do get triggered, its quite obvious what is causing it because nothing normally bothers you, so when something does bother you it really stands out. Then its easy to allow and inquire and release that as well, and go back to smooth sailing. And thats the full process.

Diego wrote:
Do you set aside time to do inner work? I am curious to know if this is a discipline for you, or more or less something you do on the go, but happen to practice every day.


I have never scheduled inner work like, "I'm going to do an hour every morning," or anything like that. But when I was doing this work most heavily, I would spend a 1-5 hours every day doing it, and I would very intentionally turn down invitations from friends and avoid commitments and timesucks in order to give myself more time to do this work. For me it really reached a point where I couldn't not do it, so it required no discipline to do the work. I just wanted to get peace so badly that whatever sacrifices in the moment seemed trivial.

Now, I only do it when I am triggered by something, which happens less and less frequently. In my day-to-day life it happens almost never, so I actually have gotten to the point where I seek out potentially difficult situations in order to see if I get triggered by them.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:27 pm 
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Diego again:

Diego wrote:
In a way, what you wrote is so simple, and I have to say that I do not do it consistently. It is easy for me to get lost in the emotions and the story when I get triggered.

All I know is I have made the commitment in going forward as it is a top priority in my life.

My response:
Diego wrote:
It is easy for me to get lost in the emotions and the story when I get triggered.


Someone who has never lifted weights before needs to start by lifting 5lbs, but if they keep at it, eventually they'll be lifting 100lbs, even if each session seems like no significant progress.

Allowing the emotions and the story after being triggered is the same way. Its just like building a muscle. Maybe at first you are triggered and you wallow in the emotions and the story for weeks before you finally come to a stance of allowing on whatever triggered you. If you keep practicing allowing, keep trying to take the posture of allowing whenever possible, then slowly, almost imperceptibly that weeks of resisting turns into days, and then hours, and then minutes, and then eventually it can turn into a nearly immediate thing. Trigger, feel a rush of emotions and story, and then fall back into allowing.

But its a discipline, a practice. Just like lifting weights (or doing pushups).

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:37 pm 
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One can bore through hard rock with one simple tool.

(Personally, I´m better in Japanese than in English.)

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:34 am 
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thanks for sharing, great stuff.

I also found the JAI very useful and great.

Lately I have been digging more into Lester Levenson's teachings.

I'm also a super logical and analytical person so this allowing\releasing isn't easy for me. But what helps me a lot
is to take each feeling (after I allow it fully) to the three wants and release from there.

There is also something called working with polarities Hale mentions it in the book based on Lester Levenson's teachings:

'Happiness Is Free: And It's Easier Than You Think'-
it's actually the original book by Lester 'keys to the ultimate freedom' with Hale adding some exercises

Anyway all the 'systems' or books
Sedona\Kiss\abundance course\JAI\David R. Hawkins book: Letting Go: The Pathway of Surrender or other books written on Lester's work: lead to the same goal. It's a matter of what style resonates with someone the most...

For me personally it helps to take something to the three wants and release from there and also working with polarities.

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Sometimes it's a little better to travel than to arrive” \ Robert M. Pirsig


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:13 pm 
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Interesting read, Meraki & Diego.

If I may add my 2 pence:

Allowing is key. The Dude abides!

Taking time out to be alone is paramount. I actually have taken a year of (predominantly)seclusion. That may be extreme to most - I didn't plan it, but I just followed my inner guidance and this is where it led me.

You can't really put time aside for inner work in the way that you might put time aside to study a new language. I write this because you can ONLY deal with what arises in the now. That is ALL you can actually do, and the now doesn't wait for a quiet moment. That written, setting time aside for thinking(or meditating or whatever you do) alone is good.

A process is rarely linear. For me it is more about A to B to A to B to C to C to C to C to B to A to D to E to F to A to C to G :lol:

Don't add any Spiritual/Mystical quackery onto life. It doesn't need it. Also, embrace the ordinariness of life. Much of it is.

Know when to stop reading what others know - it will not be the same as what you will know, because experience is subjective. Journey's are unique, though common denominators may apply.

Girls may bring us to the rabbit hole, but remember to leave them at the entrance where they belong :D

Speaking of rabbit holes - it's so much that life is a rabbit hole, but more of a ginormous mirror where you see what is inside of you at every angle.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:14 pm 
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What if you don't feel any rush of any emotions, ever ?
I only feel exhaustion and "shutting down", most of the time, when I'm alone


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:52 pm 
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Fufe wrote:
exhaustion and "shutting down"

Those are emotions.

Anything that feels like something you don't want to feel. Any discomfort. Any suffering.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:27 pm 
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Maybe you need to explore why you are exhausted and shut down when you are alone(as opposed to in company).

Could be interesting.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:14 pm 
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Ok.
What about the issues you have no idea what they are about ? It's hard to inguire anything about those. (I have some I didn't mention yet)


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:26 pm 
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Have you allowed them, fully, yet? If you haven't allowed them fully then you should focus on that before you focus on inquiring about them.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:37 pm 
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I have also this hardcore fear - It's all around living by myself, going to work, etc - It feels like some kind of fear of reality itself lol - It's been crippling me all my life, it's the main thing I want to focus nao.
Thanks for the advice bros, I'm going my way to allow and stuff
To the moon


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:23 pm 
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The best part about consciously recognising an issue is that it means that you've finally come to see through it.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:49 am 
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fufe wrote:
I have also this hardcore fear - It's all around living by myself, going to work, etc - It feels like some kind of fear of reality itself lol - It's been crippling me all my life, it's the main thing I want to focus nao.
Thanks for the advice bros, I'm going my way to allow and stuff
To the moon


Who is around u that have this same thought process ? Who do you surround yourself with that either have the same fear, or feeds it ?

From where and from who did u learn this behavior ? Dad, mom, grandpa, grandma, older brother, older sister, aunt, neighbour, friend, school collegue, school teacher etc ? ( it's been there all your life, u picked it up from somewhere )

Where did u see this behavior before ?

Who taught you this fear ?

What benefit do you get from having it ?

What instances do you find yourself when u don't pay attention to it ? ( Don't have it ? )

Who told you to have this fear ? Who told you that it's ok to have this fear ?

Who are you without the fear ?

What behaviors would you exhibit without this fear ?

Do you check yourself and look at yourself everytime you see a mirror or a reflective surface in public ? If not, why ?

How much time do you spend looking at yourself in the mirror ? If not much time, why ?

^ this is all on a subconcious level


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:08 am 
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fufe wrote:
I have also this hardcore fear - It's all around living by myself, going to work, etc - It feels like some kind of fear of reality itself lol - It's been crippling me all my life, it's the main thing I want to focus nao.
Thanks for the advice bros, I'm going my way to allow and stuff
To the moon


well then I´ll leave´ you alone with that :lol:
(such a paradox)

The mind has an imaginary audience

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:00 pm 
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DMD wrote:
Who is around u that have this same thought process ? Who do you surround yourself with that either have the same fear, or feeds it ?

From where and from who did u learn this behavior ? Dad, mom, grandpa, grandma, older brother, older sister, aunt, neighbour, friend, school collegue, school teacher etc ? ( it's been there all your life, u picked it up from somewhere )

Where did u see this behavior before ?

Who taught you this fear ?

What benefit do you get from having it ?

What instances do you find yourself when u don't pay attention to it ? ( Don't have it ? )

Who told you to have this fear ? Who told you that it's ok to have this fear ?

Who are you without the fear ?

What behaviors would you exhibit without this fear ?

Do you check yourself and look at yourself everytime you see a mirror or a reflective surface in public ? If not, why ?

How much time do you spend looking at yourself in the mirror ? If not much time, why ?

^ this is all on a subconcious level

Yes, excellent questions to ponder DMD, however I want to emphasize that these questions are best used AFTER you have really allowed whatever it is you're inquiring on, in this case a fear.

Welcome the fear first, accept it, embrace it. Then inquire.

Jared wrote:
well then I´ll leave´ you alone with that :lol:
(such a paradox)

The mind has an imaginary audience

The audience has an imaginary mind. 8-) ;)

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:44 pm 
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Meraki wrote:
trigger > allow > inquire


Thanks for sharing this Meraki. It was nice to read.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:14 pm 
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I don't know man. I can't get to some sex and intimacy issues I have. How long does it usually take for change to be noticeable ? After all I've done around all this inner work and these 2 days trying to trigger/allow, I feel hardly even a little bit closer.
Also, why inquire if the thing has been allowed fully ? I thought that's only thing you have to do and the thing will solve itself or something.
I can't even imagine allowing and inquiring at the same time lol
My biggest problem is, that when I don't think about things so much, I can actually do a lot in all areas in life (When people are around, it defocuses my mind from self-analyzing, so that's why I'm better wiht people around) - Problem is when I think k about stuff, then I shut down immeadetelly.

Altho, I have been succesfull with releasing some very dark, opressive and depressive thoughts/beliefs/emotions/whothehellknows with inquiry ONLY so... I will try that a lot now, with focus.. Which is pretty damn hardest thing for me, to focus my thoughts and emotions :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:36 pm 
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fufe wrote:
I don't know man. I can't get to some sex and intimacy issues I have. How long does it usually take for change to be noticeable ? After all I've done around all this inner work and these 2 days trying to trigger/allow, I feel hardly even a little bit closer.
Also, why inquire if the thing has been allowed fully ? I thought that's only thing you have to do and the thing will solve itself or something.
I can't even imagine allowing and inquiring at the same time lol
My biggest problem is, that when I don't think about things so much, I can actually do a lot in all areas in life (When people are around, it defocuses my mind from self-analyzing, so that's why I'm better wiht people around) - Problem is when I think k about stuff, then I shut down immeadetelly.

Altho, I have been succesfull with releasing some very dark, opressive and depressive thoughts/beliefs/emotions/whothehellknows with inquiry ONLY so... I will try that a lot now, with focus.. Which is pretty damn hardest thing for me, to focus my thoughts and emotions :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:20 am 
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Better content than half the ebooks out there Meraki- also, thanks for the shout out, that means a lot.

Also Leo. This in particular is worth noting for anyone:

Quote:
Don't add any Spiritual/Mystical quackery onto life. It doesn't need it


Direct experience is always the goal, experience needs no labels or stories or titles.

ALL the words are just doing their best to point you to an actual experience. Call it "I inquired and changed this belief" or "I released this energy and it did xyz," the actual experience is the thing.

If I tell you the notes of a C7 chord in music, the experience of that actual sound is the thing. It's not a C7 chord and the notes don't exist, it's a way to communicate the SOUND which is what it is. The taste of an orange is the actual experience of tasting it, no matter how it is described.

They are useful for teaching, but if you are more concerned with understanding what this stuff is rather than experience it you'll always be on the hamster wheel. You don't need to know the chemical compound of an orange to taste it, and you don't need some mystical esoteric understanding in order to step willingly into what you are experiencing rather than running away from it. The conscious choice to do it trumps all.

It is training, you'll automatically start thinking and analyzing or distracting yourself, or shut down, something to not just *feel* what you are feeling without going into the story about it. Start with the simple experience of your body. Once you can step into the heart of what you call pain, rejection, self-doubt, in a similar manner without labeling it, that's where you'll really start to experience true power, which includes vulnerability and the fact that you are going to die.

You don't need to try to let things go or be indifferent about them once you experience their actual nature. Until you do, you'll always be faking it.

And yes, there are all sorts of ways to get there even if someone has never done what would be called "inner work" and would think this all sounds bizarre and silly. The truth is the truth no matter how you see it. In any case, you can bet they felt fear, discomfort, stepped into it willingly (or were forced), met the challenge and then re-established their internal home base at a higher level. It's pretty much why you resonate with any action movie, video game, story or competitive sport you ever did as a guy.

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