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 Post subject: Being yourself?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:04 pm 
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The title of this thread has had me under confusion for quite sometime. I never and still today don't really understand what it means to "be yourself". How do you find out who you are? How do you "be yourself"?

I never understood what that means or how to be such a thing. My thoughts are that with so much media (film,tv,internet) stimulation how can you be yourself? You would naturally emulate the actors you see on TV, as I did when i was younger : "Man Tyler Durden is so badass! I'm want to be like him" :? .


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 Post subject: Re: Being yourself?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:42 pm 
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The question is about how you show yourself to the outside world. Do you really show the outside world you as you are, or are you censoring yourself to others?

Lets re-phrase the question and expand it a tiny little bit....

Think about ways you are not being yourself?

Ways you stop yourself doing what you want to do?

Ways you alter what you are thinking/doing in order to gain approval from others?

Ways you stop yourself letting your true self out?

Ways your fear alters your actions and thoughts?

When you cease these behaviours, along with others, then what is left is yourself, openly and honestly expressing yourself to the world. (see signature)

Then you are 'being yourself', from others point of view, as in, others are seeing what you are really like, what you are really thinking, what you really want to do.

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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 Post subject: Re: Being yourself?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:07 pm 
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TheDude wrote:
"Man Tyler Durden is so badass! I'm want to be like him" :? .
movies are fiction BUT...
Tyler Durden (from fight club) does whatever he wants and doesn't give a shit what people think about him or his life.

how many people do you know who can really be like that (after watching the movie)?

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 Post subject: Re: Being yourself?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:41 pm 
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Sniper wrote:
TheDude wrote:
"Man Tyler Durden is so badass! I'm want to be like him" :? .
movies are fiction BUT...
Tyler Durden (from fight club) does whatever he wants and doesn't give a shit what people think about him or his life.

how many people do you know who can really be like that (after watching the movie)?
Most people feel like they have too much to lose. :ugeek:

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 Post subject: Re: Being yourself?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:47 am 
Yeah dude this is something I think about a lot. You have to figure everyone holds beliefs about themselves that reflect what they see on television like you said. This includes myself at least until I started getting into this stuff and becoming more aware. Yet I'm not sure who "being myself" actually is. What I'm starting to slowly realize is the deep down me IS completely unattached from the culture we live in and is just a peaceful person. Yet the old me still feels pressured by society. Like I have to achieve certain things or I'm gonna be a loser.


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 Post subject: Re: Being yourself?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:20 am 
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peregrinus wrote:
The question is about how you show yourself to the outside world. Do you really show the outside world you as you are, or are you censoring yourself to others?

Lets re-phrase the question and expand it a tiny little bit....

Think about ways you are not being yourself?

Ways you stop yourself doing what you want to do?

Ways you alter what you are thinking/doing in order to gain approval from others?

Ways you stop yourself letting your true self out?

Ways your fear alters your actions and thoughts?

When you cease these behaviours, along with others, then what is left is yourself, openly and honestly expressing yourself to the world. (see signature)

Then you are 'being yourself', from others point of view, as in, others are seeing what you are really like, what you are really thinking, what you really want to do.
This is what I feel is authenticity. And, moments come when I question myself to see if this is an authentic choice I'm about to make. What is a blur for me at the moment is the difference from my authentic choice and that of a followers choice.

I remember years back I would watch a movie such as Fight Club and work on emulating Tyler Durdens outlook on life. This only lead to a sense of discomfort in my body and in congruence. What is a scary trap in my eyes is the PUA jargon that it will be in-congruent for a while, but with repetition it will stick; become congruent with. I see this more as desensitization, repetitive behavior that overrides existing hardware, than lasting results or deep results (removing old hardware and REPLACING it with NEWER MODELS).

What are your thoughts on dealing with in-congruence with repetition?


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 Post subject: Re: Being yourself?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:09 pm 
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TheDude wrote:
What are your thoughts on dealing with in-congruence with repetition?
This very much deals with what you are going to repeat.

Are you going to repeat a false action and therefore condition yourself to be fake and not 'yourself'?

Are you going to repeat checking yourself to see why you feel incongruent and then let go of that false action?

repetition will instill the action and thought within you... Would you rather do that with an act, or do it in a way which lets the real you out?

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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 Post subject: Re: Being yourself?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:14 pm 
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“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.” Aristotle

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 Post subject: Re: Being yourself?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:34 am 
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@PEREGRINUS I would rather have the real me come out than a false self. How can the false self be identified?

@Morpheus That is an interesting quote. Excellence in my eyes for such a long time seemed as a "god" like skill. Only very few could attain it; top athletes (Ronaldo, Michael Jordan).

Reading the Manipulated Man right now and it has helped unravel the Matrix that much more. I'm more aware of the intricacies in the system we call society; how things are run and why. We should add this to the New Members section as a prerequisite to this forum.


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 Post subject: Re: Being yourself?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:31 pm 
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There are two you's.

There's the you, you. This is the you as you are now. The 'I see it so I say it' you.

And then there's the real you. The way you are as you are looking to evolve. This is the ideal you, filled with all your achiements, goals and desires.

What's interesting is that both personalities are attractive to women and you will, with both of these 'life outlooks' will attract women wherever you go.

The problem with most guys is that in everyday life, they have a third 'you'. They put on the 'fake' them. This is the them as they act in greater society, trying to meld in with everyone else and not trying to offend anybody. This is the very thing that puts women off of them and then they whine about women playing games, whilst not realising that they themselves are busy masquerading through their own fake masks.

As a personal recccomendation, I suggest that you aspire or learn to behave like your true self rathar than be the 'you' you. Otherwise you will become stuck being the 'you' you (as you are now) and will not evolve, grow and become magnificent.

You will still attract women though.

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 Post subject: Re: Being yourself?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:27 pm 
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Well said Scarf

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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 Post subject: Re: Being yourself?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:04 am 
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In 99% of cases you are not who you think you are.

The "you" almost everyone operates from is an identity - created and sculpted from a very young age to protect you. When you're a kid if you rock the boat too hard and get disowned, you're fucked - you'd die (society wouldn't let that happen probably but your nervous system doesn't see it that way. So you still operate from there. It's why you can't just logic yourself out of most fears / issues otherwise we'd all have been done with everything after reading a few forum posts or books 10-20 years ago).

However, YOU are what is able to see that identity and move through different identities, different perspectives, the absolute and the relative. The guy you think you are does not wake up - YOU are awake and you begin to see what that guy is.

To make it (maybe) less abstract:

"You" are not a fixed thing. Every single moment in your life calls on different energy / action and you naturally can and know how to respond. But you have this vision of "you" and what you experience is the conflict between what YOU know is the right response, conflicting with the fake identity and concepts.

If you're thinking about it, it's too late.

That's the identity analyzing itself and polishing itself.

You are being you when the action arises naturally and automatically from a deep place (not just a reactive pattern). Without analysis, thought and "what's the authentic thing to do here" which is a horse-shit question by definition.

YOU are the awareness that can see "hey i'm reacting this way."

It's not an intellectual thing getting in touch with it - it's inner work and experience and i'm sure others have probably shared their own tools and inner work modalities.

A good place to start is to ask every question you did and want to ask on a forum to yourself - that's the only place a satisfying answer can come from. "You" can ask "what do I really want" and a response comes from somewhere. Try it. You might find yourself becoming more identified with the part that supplies the answers than the part that asks them. The real "you" has the answers.

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 Post subject: Re: Being yourself?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:51 am 
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Flow83 wrote:
In 99% of cases you are not who you think you are.

The "you" almost everyone operates from is an identity - created and sculpted from a very young age to protect you. When you're a kid if you rock the boat too hard and get disowned, you're fucked - you'd die (society wouldn't let that happen probably but your nervous system doesn't see it that way. So you still operate from there. It's why you can't just logic yourself out of most fears / issues otherwise we'd all have been done with everything after reading a few forum posts or books 10-20 years ago).

However, YOU are what is able to see that identity and move through different identities, different perspectives, the absolute and the relative. The guy you think you are does not wake up - YOU are awake and you begin to see what that guy is.

To make it (maybe) less abstract:

"You" are not a fixed thing. Every single moment in your life calls on different energy / action and you naturally can and know how to respond. But you have this vision of "you" and what you experience is the conflict between what YOU know is the right response, conflicting with the fake identity and concepts.

If you're thinking about it, it's too late.

That's the identity analyzing itself and polishing itself.

You are being you when the action arises naturally and automatically from a deep place (not just a reactive pattern). Without analysis, thought and "what's the authentic thing to do here" which is a horse-shit question by definition.

YOU are the awareness that can see "hey i'm reacting this way."


It's not an intellectual thing getting in touch with it - it's inner work and experience and i'm sure others have probably shared their own tools and inner work modalities.

A good place to start is to ask every question you did and want to ask on a forum to yourself - that's the only place a satisfying answer can come from. "You" can ask "what do I really want" and a response comes from somewhere. Try it. You might find yourself becoming more identified with the part that supplies the answers than the part that asks them. The real "you" has the answers.
Good, then who are the you that is seeing the awareness that is able to see the reacting of this. When does it end?

Does this neurotic self inquiry have and end, and if it has, whos ending, and more important WHAT'S LEFT?

:|

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 Post subject: Re: Being yourself?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:05 pm 
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The experience is not intellectual.. if you are thinking about it at ALL it's too late. if you are wrapped up inside your thoughts then it can spiral by infinity. But "you" can observe your thoughts or you can sink your teeth into them and identify with them. You can't observe awareness - awareness is what is doing the observing. That is home base.

But we are in our minds and we use the mind to get in touch with the other parts of ourself and to finally see we are bigger than the mind. Otherwise there would be no way to talk about inner work on a forum or give processes.

It's really not just a bunch of spiritual sounding bullshit and who knows if i'm articulating it well.

It's just that we usually operate from our concepts - "i'm this type of guy - i'm not good with women - i'm like this and therefore this won't happen or this will" - you take a step back and see that you are bigger than that, you can observe those thoughts and patterns and actually be the architect in your life. Almost everyone has had an experience where one day they see that something they assumed was true actually never was and it opened up more options and more power. When you were completely consumed inside the thought, it was impossible to see that you had other choices. We believed the thought was literally "us" until something or someone showed us that we can actually see it. It's total matrix red pill analogy.

If you can observe something, it CANT be you.

Interestingly the question you posed at the end is the basis for lots of spiritual teaching and what several of the masters of all time did - ramana maharshi - lester levenson (guy behind the sedona method) -- "who am I?" - and the discovery of what's left is the most important answer. It does have an end. Every guy here is unbelievably powerful and has the resources to create everything but most of us have convinced ourself that we are this identity who has xyz problems and limitations.

You can tweak that identity and do work to make it better and more functional (most work like affirmation/your story type of work), but seeing that YOU are the one who is tweaking it and YOU are the one who created it in the first place (which is why you can seemingly work on it) you can have freedom to be whoever you need to be at any moment.

Being yourself happens automatically when you drop all ideas of who you are and who you are "supposed" to be and just act from your gut, balls, etc. It can be quite a journey to see just how many things you think are just "who you are" were created for safety, society, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Being yourself?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:28 pm 
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Nice questions!

I know I was prattling about this before but I still find it so amazing how "you" can "ask yourself" questions and get an answer. For me personally, that's one of the simplest ways to see that there is a difference between who you really are and the limited version we usually think we are. The answers are right there within.
peregrinus wrote:
The question is about how you show yourself to the outside world. Do you really show the outside world you as you are, or are you censoring yourself to others?

Lets re-phrase the question and expand it a tiny little bit....

Think about ways you are not being yourself?

Ways you stop yourself doing what you want to do?

Ways you alter what you are thinking/doing in order to gain approval from others?

Ways you stop yourself letting your true self out?

Ways your fear alters your actions and thoughts?

When you cease these behaviours, along with others, then what is left is yourself, openly and honestly expressing yourself to the world. (see signature)

Then you are 'being yourself', from others point of view, as in, others are seeing what you are really like, what you are really thinking, what you really want to do.

_________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXz8xMaJi4


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 Post subject: Re: Being yourself?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:04 pm 
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Hehe- perhaps a clearer thing (i love this topic)

Many agree that there is a subconscious, super conscious or "higher self" and stuff like that and don't find that too out there.

What happens is you identify YOU as that little "conscious" part. I'll use my name, Evan. Evan will do techniques, inner work, self inquire, let things go etc. and find that answers, knowledge, power, and so on can come from the result of doing this.

But interestingly this turns into Evan went into "his subconscious" or "higher self" (i'm guessing most everyone has experienced this type of clarity/wisdom etc that comes from this place). I still identify myself as Evan, which is just a small segment of the whole deal with a story behind it, and then Evan went into this other territory and it made Evan a little bit better, more functional.

Except all that wisdom, power, confidence etc IS you and Evan is a small fragment of it that was created out of it - but I'm so used to calling that "me." Just like in a dream the WHOLE dream is in your head, your mind is literally generating every character in that dream but you still identify yourself as the central character and will say "in my dream these monsters attacked me" but it was all generated by you. You just identified with that vantage point.

It's not just some feel good self-help bullshit. When you start to believe and experience that the place where all those answers and clarity and power comes from IS actually you and not something you GET access to when you do xyz right, you adopt a very different stance in life. You begin to trust what comes up and don't look for validation etc. This has been what seems to be unfolding for me the more this unravels.

The only way you can have an internal conflict is if there is someone or something else in there to conflict with what arises :)

It feels more secure to have a right answer and a fixed idea of who we are and how we should be and so we generally make that "ourself" and turn all the power and shit into these mystical other things like "my subconscious" - "my shadow" - "my higher self" etc.

The more you have access to everything, the more "Evan" can be whatever he needs to be in the moment - whether that's kill a guy if his life is in danger, be unmovable with a woman giving him shit or also much lighter and fun with one when it's appropriate, without some pre determined concept saying one is right and one is wrong.

I get to play the part of Evan and do whatever I want with him. You can create your identity and make it as maleability and powerful as you want. That's very different than thinking that he is the entirety.

Like was said in an earlier thread you can have a steak in the matrix and know what it is and still enjoy the hell out of it. You just see it for what it is and the heaviness and significance of it starts to go away :)

That's why it seems so long winded re: "be yourself" but what you believe to be "yourself" is so central to all of it

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 Post subject: Re: Being yourself?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:11 am 
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Some quotes :
Quote:
No self
"There is no self, there is no I, there is no spirit, there is no soul, and there is no mind. That knocks off the whole list, and you have no way of finding out what you are left with. You may very well ask me the question, 'Why do you go on telling people about the way you are functioning?' It is only to emphasize that we have been for centuries using some instrument, that is, thinking or mind, or whatever you want to call it, to free ourselves from the whole of what you call the 'I' or the 'self', and all kinds of things. That is what the whole quest of spirit is all about. But once it dawns on you that there is nothing to be free from, then these questions don't arise at all. How that dawned on me, I have no way of finding out for myself."

U. G. Krishnamurti, Thought is your enemy
Quote:
No religious content
"There is no religious content, no mystical overtones at all, in what I am saying. Man has to be saved from the saviors of mankind! The religious people--they kidded themselves and fooled the whole of mankind. Throw them out! That is courage itself."

"How can I convince you that I have nothing more than you have? I don't have anything that you don't have. Your wanting something from somebody is the cause of your misery. The end of illusion is the end of you. So you can't be without illusion. You can only replace one illusion with another illusion."

"Whatever you are doing is blocking its happening. It is misleading to put it that way, because there is nothing to happen. You don't realize that whatever you are doing is a self-centered activity."

"You put me on the other side of the river. You want to cross in a boat. That boat is a leaky boat, and you will sink. There is no other bank, and there is no river to cross, no boat. You have created an image and put the image on the other side. I say, 'No, for goodness sake, I am on the same bank. There is no river to cross, and no boatman is necessary!'"

"It is a very simple thing--so simple that the complex structure does not want to leave it alone."

U. G. Krishnamurti, The Mystique of Enlightenment
Quote:
"A life free of attachment to the mind is possible through a direct understanding that the notion of being a separate self is purely conceptual."

"The basis of all spiritual pursuits is false, because there has never been a separation from what is real."

"You are not creating thoughts. They happen spontaneously. Then we say 'I am thinking', 'I am deciding', 'I am remembering'. This is totally false. That 'I' is not present in those things. It is only assumed afterwards. This assumed 'I' is the ego, and it is the cause of our problems. There has never been an ego, except as an assumption."

John Wheeler, The Light Behind Consciousness
Quote:
To lose the point
"There is nothing in this transmission that can be grasped or conceptualized or cultivated or practiced. To assimilate it into the logical intellect and spin it out as a philosophy or doctrine is to lose the point, just as the magic of poetry is lost in analysis. The transmission itself is a timeless event, like every moment of experience, arising as spontaneity, without cause or condition, so it cannot be developed into a yoga or meditation practice. It cannot be turned into religion: there are no tenets of belief; nether devotion nor faith are conditions of its revelation; and no ritual interprets and structures it. It is simply an existential understanding of the here and now."

Keith Dowman, Eye of the Storm

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Alvin Toffler


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 Post subject: Re: Being yourself?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:09 pm 
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Excellent quotes. This is the end game, so to speak. It can often be abstract "what do you mean there's no self- i'm right here motherfucker" as a place to start but this is where it all goes. Even a lot of the teachers who have been distorted into major religions went here.

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 Post subject: Re: Being yourself?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:02 am 
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Flow83 wrote:
It's why you can't just logic yourself out of most fears / issues otherwise we'd all have been done with everything after reading a few forum posts or books 10-20 years ago).
My question following this was: why can we not rid our fears logically?

BUT reading on I turned that question back on me, and my answer was:

Because, our fears give rise to who we believe we are. "I" am a guy who is fearful of xyz. They give us our mind construct. And without it we believe we would be nothing. But, the funny and ironic thing is that someone who follows this path or journey wants to reach a place of nothing'ness.
Flow83 wrote:
YOU are the awareness that can see "hey i'm reacting this way."
This is something that shook my ground and is still something I have not come to grips with. I was confused when I first realized this, because you think of yourself as your problems, your current situation, your thoughts, and your accomplishments & failures. That is who you believe yourself to be.

A profound experience I had was when I had this thought or question of who I would be without my current life problems? What I came to realize is that the mind concept of myself is: the problems, limitations, fears, and bs I create. Without those concepts I would be nothing. I would be a blank slate, and for a reason I can't understand the mind has problems with such a thought. What is even more profound is that the mind is a tool; problem solver. So, when identified with the mind there will always be a problem in front of you.

A lot of educational material out there speaks of having positive thinking & thoughts. But, is that not just a pattern one creates for themselves? Isn't that still coming from a place of limitations and boundaries?

My thoughts on this is do we have to progress from: thought-positive thought-beyond thought-pure awareness. Is it a linear progress or can we realize the limitation of thoughts and progress to awareness and the observer?
Flow83 wrote:
Being yourself happens automatically when you drop all ideas of who you are and who you are "supposed" to be and just act from your gut, balls, etc. It can be quite a journey to see just how many things you think are just "who you are" were created for safety, society, etc.
For right now I can only image what being myself means.

This has been the journey I have been on all along. And what I've come to realize is the human experience for many, or more specifically myself is we allow nothing to come easy to us. Just like Neo it looks as though I am waiting for something. And, I'm continuously asking what am I waiting for or is this what I'm waiting for?


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 Post subject: Re: Being yourself?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:36 pm 
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Awesome insights.

Yes exactly, when Evan thinks about who he would be without everything that made "Evan," the nervous system reaction is "well shit, Evan would die! Resist!" This part is not always pretty or blissful (check out Ramana Maharshi or Stephen Jourdain's awakening experience). The thing is, Evan does die. YOU don't, and that's what freedom is, realizing you are not that limited concept but are way beyond that. Your identity right now is your footing on everything so you can of course expect and be kind to yourself about the fact that the idea and then experience of losing your footing is not super comfortable!
Quote:
A lot of educational material out there speaks of having positive thinking & thoughts. But, is that not just a pattern one creates for themselves? Isn't that still coming from a place of limitations and boundaries?

My thoughts on this is do we have to progress from: thought-positive thought-beyond thought-pure awareness. Is it a linear progress or can we realize the limitation of thoughts and progress to awareness and the observer?
One of the things I'm grateful for is I have a teacher who is very clear about this, and many philosophies / concepts and especially products trying to sell you in this area confuse.

There is a distinction between self-help and what we'll call spiritual inquiry.

There is nothing wrong with either, and he has always stressed to me doing both.

Self help is making Evan work better. Better thoughts, attracting better things, etc. etc. more functional in life. Perhaps you could say a better character in the matrix. Part of you lives in this world and there is no reason not to have it work better for you.

The spiritual inquiry part is that which looks at the bigger awareness of what you really are and what the whole thing is. To use this analogy again it's that which awareness way beyond your limited sense of self. What is actually able to see that there IS a matrix and that you are playing a character and that there is a transcendent peace underneath it all. I believe The Kidd made a reference on here how Cyper knew he was eating a steak in the matrix and still enjoyed the hell out of it.

You've met people who go overboard in one way or the other. If you are ALL about winning in the world and obsessed about making this perfect self that gets money and chicks then that is not exactly peaceful and you think that's ALL there is. On the other hand you've met spiritual people who have good energy and have seen glimpses of peace etc. beyond but they can't pay their fucking rent and their life is a mess functionally.

This is why there are ancient teachings like the perfect "middle way" (Buddhism) - "be in the world not of the world" etc.

BTW that teacher I like has a free online show where you hear me asking a lot of questions like this and you'll probably say hey that guys posts are just echoing this shit! Hah. His show is at conversationswithg.com - all episodes are completely free so i'm guessing it's cool to post that here.

In the end the "victory" to liberation from all that thought and identification is through surrender to it and not trying to master / stop / control every aspect of it because that is trying to be done through the ego and keeps you there. When you give that up which can feel like it's submitting or you'll lose/die you gain more perspective. What the hell, for one more matrix analogy - how does he FINALLY beat smith after endlessly fighting them after they keep multiplying and multiplying?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXz8xMaJi4


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