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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:25 am 
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I never understood and still don’t understand from my personal experience, the indifference part. And how that works/expresses itself in real life.
I have experienced indifference, but in my life/experience it didn’t lead to anything. It might be because I don’t have the correct deffenition of it (english is not my first language).

The question I have. Am I missing/not seeing something here?

I’ll try to share my experiences with that, and so how it came about/comes that I don’t see it.

Definition I have of indifference. Is this correct, or do you have different ones?
I looked it up one day and read that indifference means: being indifferent. And being indifferent means: Having no particular interest or concern in something. So I came to the definition of indifference “with women” being something like this: Having no interest or want or desire in banging/dating a woman

I can admit, that I have experienced periods of indifference with women. I did have no desire in banging other women, when I was having periods where I had a good sex partner I had sex with often. I was satisfied sexually then already, so I felt no interest or want or desire to bang other women. So I was totally indifferent to sex with other women, in my definition.
But it did not result in anything happening with other women, for me. Because when I was in that position of not wanting to bang other women. I ignored them all. I was indifferent because I was sexually satisfied/tired already, I didn’t want to bang them. So I brushed off/rejected plenty women then. Because I thought things then like: “I have no interest in banging you (not because you’re ugly), because I’m satisfied sexually already. So fuck off, so I can do or pursue something I want to do”.

Then when I am wanting to bang other women, because I’m not sexually fulfilled. I will start talking again with other women, start dating and stuff (basically taking action again myself, or action on chciks showing interst). But then (at that time) I’m not indifferent anymore, according to my definition. Because I do want or would like to bang that or a woman.

I never understood from personal experience. How indifference, aka not wanting/no interest in something, couldn’t lead to passivity and rejecting/ignoring offers from people to give you that which you have no want or interest for. For examples, I don’t never ever have want to bang a granny, I reject that and am also totally indifferent towards grannies (for dating purposes). Or I don't have any want or interest for fishing, thus I reject any offers from people to go fishing with the and I don't spend any time with it (reading about it, in a fishingshop or whatever). For me indifference has always lead to passivity (or rejecting offers of it).


So the thought processes I always have concerning indifference, and which also makes that I don’t get it. Like for instance when I heared The Kidd state he is indifferent about women, yet I also read he does spend time dating/banging them. Thought process I have then, are like. “Well I think indifference means, having no want or interest or desire for it. Then why does he spend any time with women, if he has no want/interest for them. Well I guess there must be some want/interest then, otherwise I would imagine a person would reject it or spend 0 seconds at it. But if there is some want/interst, it’s not indifference anymore. I don’t get it. I don’t even get someone doing something one feels indifferent about. Maybe indifference means something else too, because I don’t get it”

So that is what basically is going on in me, and my experiences with indifference. Am I missing something? I don’t get and never have got the indifference concept at all.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:41 am 
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you are talking about apaty, tha's not indifference


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:40 am 
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Read the ice-cream analogy 8-) :

http://stopgivingafuck.com/blog/index.p ... /#more-230


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:22 am 
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rant wrote:
you are talking about apaty, tha's not indifference
I can see no other logical outcome of indifference then apathy.
How can having no interest or desire or want in something (at least that is what I've come to that being indiffirent means according to online dictionary), not lead to apathy? I don't get that?

Let's say (and I assume) you are indifferent and thus have no interest and concern and desire for knitting. Would you persue it then? The only result I can see it will bring then is, never thinking about knitting in you head and being apathic in action towards knitting.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:46 am 
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Dr. Awesome wrote:
Thanks for posting the link.

I read it. And the guy in de story according to "my" definition of indifference, is not indifferent. Not towards women and not towards ice-cream. Because I read:
Quote:
“You know what, it would be really cool if I had some ice cream right now.”
Indifference means as I think/thought: having no concern or interest or desire or want in something(ice-cream). Finding something "cool" isn't being indifferent then. Because finding something cool in my idea doesn't match: no concern/interest/desire/want
Quote:
Now begin to look at women and your sex life as just ice cream…. “You know it would be really cool if I went out tonight and met a really cool chick and we clicked and hooked up tonight, that would be so cool. If it doesn’t happen, that’s ok, it would just be really cool if it did.”
Again, finding a outcome cool, I wouldn't define that as indifferent. Because it does imply some (level of) want/desire, and I thpught indifference means having no or the absence of any want/desire.
Quote:
So here we see how “wanting” isn’t bad.
again, wanting even on a small level/degree sin't indifference from what I understand.
Quote:
If you see an attractive woman and want to go talk to her, then go talk to her
wanting to talk to a attractive lady, means there is some want. which means that person isn't indifferent towards the attractive lady, since he would then have no presence of any want.
Quote:
You know it would be really cool if
So here we see how “wanting” isn’t bad.
let go of needing
Well what I read here, according to my defintions. I read someone talking about different levels of wanting/desire. Ranging from a low level of want/desire: like finding something (a bit) cool/nice. Al the way up to the highest level of want/desire: like finding you really (desperately) need to have/achieve something.
Yet as I understand, it's not indifference. But more different levels of wanting/desire/concern/interest that he discusses.

Or am I missing something?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:05 pm 
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All indifference is...is that you truly don't care if it happens or not. You are not attached to the outcome. If I go out to a nightclub, and it's getting late and I haven't gotten a single phone number yet, I wouldn't feel panicked like I need to kick it into high gear and make something happen or else going out that night was a waste of time. I just leave and take my ass to sleep...no stress, no anxiety, no pressure.

Or, let's say a woman wants to fuck me. Most guys would be chomping at the bit trying to get her over to the house before she 'changes her mind'. Me? We'll get around to it when we get around to it...no rush. She's the one missing out, not me. ;)

THIS is what indifference means to ME. 8-)

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:59 pm 
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The Kidd!! wrote:
All indifference is...is that you truly don't care if it happens or not. You are not attached to the outcome. If I go out to a nightclub, and it's getting late and I haven't gotten a single phone number yet, I wouldn't feel panicked like I need to kick it into high gear and make something happen or else going out that night was a waste of time. I just leave and take my ass to sleep...no stress, no anxiety, no pressure.
Right.

There are other nights, there are other women.

I enjoy spending time with women AND I am not attached to the outcome with any particular one.

I have posted before that I could quite happily live the rest of my life without a woman or sex.
I have also posted that I enjoy spending time with women and sex.

Is it so difficult to believe that these two states of mind can co-exist? Do you somehow think they are mutually exclusive?
The Kidd!! wrote:
Or, let's say a woman wants to fuck me. Most guys would be chomping at the bit trying to get her over to the house before she 'changes her mind'. Me? We'll get around to it when we get around to it...no rush. She's the one missing out, not me. ;)
I tend to think of this as : her teasing herself.

She is building up all the anticipation and excitement within HERSELF.

If she thinks she is teasing me, she is sorely mistaken, she is teasing herself. She is the one who will be chomping at the bit.

More often that not she will also start to wonder why you are not chomping at the bit (e.g. He must be getting it somewhere else?) and will want to prove to you that you should be.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:17 pm 
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Quote:
I tend to think of this as : her teasing herself.

She is building up all the anticipation and excitement within HERSELF.

If she thinks she is teasing me, she is sorely mistaken, she is teasing herself. She is the one who will be chomping at the bit.

More often that not she will also start to wonder why you are not chomping at the bit (e.g. He must be getting it somewhere else?) and will want to prove to you that you should be.
Haha! You and I are synaptically synced. 8-)

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:52 pm 
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The Kidd!! wrote:
not attached to the outcome.
I wouldn't feel panicked like I need to kick it into high gear and make something happen or else going out that night was a waste of time.
no stress, no anxiety, no pressure.

Most guys would be chomping at the bit trying to get her over to the house before she 'changes her mind'.
Me? We'll get around to it when we get around to it...no rush.

THIS is what indifference means to ME.
Thank you for sharing what indifference means to/for you, and taking effort to explain it.

Would I state it correct (as I read it, for my personal understanding pruposes) that for you indifference (also) means; having no attachement to a prefered outcome, and/or not caring about a prefered outcome happening?
While I always thought indifference meant: Having no want or preference for that outcome at all. I always thought that when I saw/see a lady and I wanted/liked to or prefered it having the outcome of sex with her, I was not being indifferent according to the meaning of it. I didn't know, it can mean (also) that you can have a prefered/liked/wanted outcome, yet if/when you are concerning the outcome: not attached; feeling no panic, pressure, stress, anxiety, ruch. Then you're indifferent as well.

Well as I'm typing now. I'm coming to the conslusion for myself now. It's not indifference in preference/want. But it's indifference in and towrads the perfered/liked/wanted outcome happening. So it's just on the outcome then!? (I notice I'm thinking (typing) out loud here, :oops: )

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Last edited by scarface on Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:24 pm 
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peregrinus wrote:
I enjoy spending time with women AND I am not attached to the outcome with any particular one.
Thanks for your words. I see (I think). You're not indifferent towards women or sex, since you state you enjoy that. And accoring to what I thought, indifference means not wanting/having no interest in women or sex. Yet/but you are indifferent towards it happening.
peregrinus wrote:
I have posted before that I could quite happily live the rest of my life without a woman or sex.
I have also posted that I enjoy spending time with women and sex.

Is it so difficult to believe that these two states of mind can co-exist? Do you somehow think they are mutually exclusive?
I can imagine and looking back I also had moments/periods of that in my life of experiencing that concerning different matters. I think you're right and spot on.
It's just that the word indiffence was hard for me to understand what it means. And especially, where the indifference was on. I thought the indifference was on the wanting or preference, and on the outcome. I didn't see the indifference was merely just on the outcome.
When I prefered and enjoy something happening, yet when it didn't have that outcome. I was still happy when things that helped for that, when that happened in my life were: not overvaluing the outcome, being content about and with myself anyways, having others things/substitutes I (can) do I also enjoy (as much).
peregrinus wrote:
More often that not she will also start to wonder why you are not chomping at the bit and will want to prove to you that you should be.
This example is defenately a display of a guy, of having indifference towards the outcome of sex happening. I guess a person/guy can only pull it off when he's: content/happy already, he doesn't overvalue what the outcome brings him, he has (just as) enjoybale things to do as a substitute for sex with her?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:22 pm 
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scarface wrote:
This example is defenately a display of a guy, of having indifference towards the outcome of sex happening. I guess a person/guy can only pull it off when he's: content/happy already, he doesn't overvalue what the outcome brings him, he has (just as) enjoybale things to do as a substitute for sex with her?
It's not about 'pulling it off'.....in this mindset other things in life are enjoyable on their own, sex is lower on the priority list so there's no need to perceive hobbies etc. as a substitution for sex, but actually viewing sex as just another one of those enjoyable things, I dunno if this makes much sense to you now but this is a valuable lesson I learned from Kidd.

Indifference is not something one does to acquire a result [from someone else] it's something you acquire after much inner work.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:07 pm 
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Alchemist wrote:
scarface wrote:
This example is defenately a display of a guy, of having indifference towards the outcome of sex happening. I guess a person/guy can only pull it off when he's: content/happy already, he doesn't overvalue what the outcome brings him, he has (just as) enjoybale things to do as a substitute for sex with her?
It's not about 'pulling it off'.....in this mindset other things in life are enjoyable on their own, sex is lower on the priority list so there's no need to perceive hobbies etc. as a substitution for sex, but actually viewing sex as just another one of those enjoyable things, I dunno if this makes much sense to you now but this is a valuable lesson I learned from Kidd.

Indifference is not something one does to acquire a result [from someone else] it's something you acquire after much inner work.
i'm agree it is not a substitute fo sex,a substitute for sex it's a hoey, i read it here before it is more like being in a bubble and you allow people to enter in the bubble, it is a like reversed perception to me


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:27 pm 
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Indifference isn't so much a goal as it is a side effect.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:41 pm 
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The Kidd!! wrote:
Indifference isn't so much a goal as it is a side effect.
Agreed

others, see this post : http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopi ... ator#p9722 and the rest of that thread.

It is a symptom, an indicator, a side effect - of an underlying condition.

You get the condition, then you are indifferent. Rather than, you are indifferent so you get the condition.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:33 pm 
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@peregrinus

You mean that indifference is a side-effect of:
Quote:
Being Happy in yourself.
Being comfortable in your own skin.
Having confidence in yourself.
Having interests not connected to her (NOTE: she might also have them, this is NOT why you have them though).
Knowing you are of value and you have value to give.
Being 'radically honest' - saying what you mean without censoring/editing it.
Having boundaries and sticking to them.
Being emotionally strong. (Having emotions and KNOWING how to deal with them - healthily)
Giving her space to be herself and express herself.
Giving her the space to seduce herself and you.


Not 'needing' her.
Not seeking approval from her.
Not trying to get anything from her (manipulation).
Not owning every little emotion she feels.
Not allowing her to manipulate YOU. (The games girls play)
Not getting hung up on every little thing she says. (see above section)
If that's the case it makes sense.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:18 pm 
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diego wrote:
@peregrinus
indifference is a side-effect of:
Quote:
Not 'needing' her.
Not trying to get anything from her (manipulation).
To add to where I've come to now, concerning indifference to the outcome

The "process" has basically 2 steps/happenings imo.
1. The first step/happening is: there is a "want/preference" (thus no indifference there yet) for something. The "want" can range from a low level of intensity being for instant: "A preference that you like"; all the way up to a "want" of a high level of intensity being for instant: "I need this so bad and I got to get this!"
2. The second step/happening is: there is indifference to the outcome and the outcome affects how you feel not at all or verry little; Or there is a high level of attachement to the outcome and not
getting it does cause much negative change to how you feel.

I think, that one of the largest thing: so to have the result of step 2 being indifference to the outcome. Is that I go in with a low level of "want/desire/preference", which can be achieved by things like: seeing the want in perspective, not overvaluing what it can bring, having equally as desired substitute thing to do, seeing that it won't change how happy tou are about yourself.

Because every time I have entered something wit a high level of want; Like "I need to have/experience this". I was overvaluing what it could bring me and was having way to high expectations, ususally I thought it would make me view myself more higher and be more happy about myself, etc.
When I went in like that; I was never indifferent or even somewhat relaxed about the outcome. Because I went in with to much "want" for it.

So i think going in with a low level of want, can make a hugh difference already.

Like was stated:
peregrinus wrote:
I enjoy spending time with women AND I am not attached to the outcome with any particular one.

I have posted that I enjoy spending time with women and sex.
I have also posted before that I could quite happily live the rest of my life without a woman or sex.
As I read it.
I seem to notice he goes in of it/starts of. With a low level of want for it. Like he stated: "I enjoy". And he doesn't use words that would imply a stronger level of (initial) "want", words like for instance: "I desire" or "I need" or "I want very much to".

And since he goes in with a low level/intensity of "want"
He comes out of it as a side affect, with an indifference towards the outcome.
I bet if he went in with a high level of want, like: I want this very much, or I need this, etc.. The side affect would then not be that he das indifference towards the outcome. Probably more the opposite, a strong attachement to the outcome.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:04 pm 
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scarface wrote:
And since he goes in with a low level/intensity of "want"
He comes out of it as a side affect, with an indifference towards the outcome.
I bet if he went in with a high level of want, like: I want this very much, or I need this, etc.. The side affect would then not be that he das indifference towards the outcome. Probably more the opposite, a strong attachement to the outcome.
Wrong!

I will expand on that, you have it the wrong way around.

Look at it the other way.


This bit I liked:
scarface wrote:
As I read it.
I seem to notice he goes in of it/starts of. With a low level of want for it. Like he stated: "I enjoy". And he doesn't use words that would imply a stronger level of (initial) "want", words like for instance: "I desire" or "I need" or "I want very much to".
However you have it the wrong way around.

It is not the words that drive the state, it is the state that drives the words.

I do not 'want' or 'need' it. I enjoy it if and when it happens.

I can live without it and still be happy.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:51 pm 
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I'm glad you straightened that out Grinus, that was my initial thought when reading it earlier. Good to have the confirmation


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 4:46 pm 
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This is another subject like 'letting go' that gets overcomplicated.

It's simple:

'I'm fine either way'


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:58 pm 
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Matty wrote:
This is another subject like 'letting go' that gets overcomplicated.
As Edward De Bono said:

“Complexity is always failed simplicity”

and

“Simplicity before understanding is simplistic; simplicity after understanding is simple”
Matty wrote:
'I'm fine either way'
Yup

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