Natural Freedom

Forum for the natural awakening and self-realization of men
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:30 pm 
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Quote:
Why We Aren't Who We Are | The Tragedy Of Being What You Can't Define
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTlsUCANKYU

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Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:07 pm 
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Quoting Scott Barry Kaufman
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Humanistic psychotherapist Carl Rogers noted that while the problems people present during psychotherapy “run the gamut of life’s experiences... there is perhaps one problem.” Rogers observed that below the level of the complaint, each person is really asking, “Who am I, really? How can I get in touch with this real self, underlying all my surface behavior? How can I become myself?”
This is the wrong question to ask yourself, however. There is no real you. We each contain multitudes. For personal growth, a better question would be: "Which potentiality within me do I most wish to spend my limited time cultivating, developing, and actualizing in this world?"

Healthy authenticity isn’t just saying whatever is on your mind or indulging all of your impulses. Healthy authenticity involves constantly aligning your actions with your most consciously chosen values and ideals, regardless of whether those ideals are who you are right now.

The word "authenticity" is way too overused in the spiritual guru world. I don't think people really want to be who they are, because humans by default are downright messy and contradictory. Instead, people want to grow and to feel upward movement toward becoming a better person.

Stop worrying "Who am I?" There is not a single you, nor should there be. Embrace the richness and complexity of human existence, work to integrate the contradictions, actively cultivate your favorite selves, and view other humans with the same understanding and compassion.

Authenticity Under Fire
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After all, I do believe there is within each of us best selves— aspects of who you are that are healthy, creative, and growth-oriented, and make you feel most connected to yourself and to others. I would argue that getting in touch with your best selves and intentionally actualizing your most creative and growth-oriented potentialities is a much more worthy goal than spending your entire life trying to find your one true self. In my view, there is such a thing as healthy authenticity.

Healthy authenticity is not about going around saying whatever is on your mind, or actualizing all of your potentialities, including your darkest impulses. Instead, healthy authenticity, of the sort that helps you become a whole person, involves accepting and taking responsibility for your whole self as a route to personal growth and meaningful relationships. Healthy authenticity is an ongoing process of discovery, involving self-awareness, self-honesty, integrity with your most consciously chosen values and highest goals, and a commitment to cultivating authentic relationships.

As long as you are working towards growth in the direction of who you truly want to be, that counts as authentic in my book regardless of whether it is who you are at this very moment. The first step to healthy authenticity is shedding your positivity biases and seeing yourself for who you are, in all of your contradictory and complex splendor. Full acceptance doesn’t mean you like everything you see, but it does mean that you’ve taken the most important first step toward actually becoming the whole person you most wish to become. As Carl Rogers noted, “the curious paradox is that when I accept myself just as I am, then I can change.”
Self-acceptance is the essential starting point for growth. Where am I right now? Stand on the scale and look at it with blunt honesty.

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The opposite for courage is not cowardice, it is conformity. Even a dead fish can go with the flow.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:25 pm 
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The one thing humanism got right was the dignity of man.

One thing that really stands out to me in this is relativism of it. So in this model we all work toward being our best selves. But there is no ultimate truth, no way to discover who we really are and our place.

In this model how do you solve the moral question? If anyone can do whatever they want how do you prevent people being harmed by others with bad intentions who were just cultivating their "favorite self"?

These psychologists remind me of the puas that I had to get past when I first made my way to the forum. They may not have bad intentions but trying to use their ideas is as useful as the puas that fall in line to a woman's frame.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:15 pm 
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There is only what we are willing to tolerate.
That is still morality, without any absolutist / ultimate
expectations.

Life is uncertain, you don't have a security blanket.
We are all improvising.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:55 pm 
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Jared wrote: *
There is only what we are willing to tolerate.
That is still morality, without any absolutist / ultimate
expectations.

Life is uncertain, you don't have a security blanket.
We are all improvising.
All this rationalism and humanism was born after the East and West split formally in 1054. It's been implemented in society in a stepwise fashion since then. Once the Catholic Church split from East, it had it's own schism with the rise of Protestantism, the Renaissance, the Enlightenment (which should more rightly become the Endarkenment).

From a human perspective of events everything appears like there is no plan.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:26 am 
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Can you prove there is a plan ?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:56 pm 
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fufe wrote: *
Can you prove there is a plan ?
Quote:
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of [a]Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
The Great Falling away began in 1054.

Look at the history over the past 1000 years and look at the world today. They cannot even determine how many genders there are because they say there is no such thing as ultimate truth. Someday they will meet the Truth face to face and it says all the nations will weep (some for joy some for their own foolishness).

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:01 am 
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Actually let me ask you this fufe. How do you know there is a societal matrix to enslave men?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:10 am 
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I do not entertain mysel with thinking about that these days at all.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:42 am 
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Altair wrote: *
In this model how do you solve the moral question? If anyone can do whatever they want how do you prevent people being harmed by others with bad intentions who were just cultivating their "favorite self"?
A truly democratic society is one where all of its citizens feel as though they have equal opportunity to grow and self-actualize in their own direction as long as it doesn't impinge on the freedom of others to do the same.
We are still so far from this ideal, it's heartbreaking.

There are always going to be a few bad apples. We need to protect against them and punish them when they do bad things.
Treat people accordingly to not let a few rotten apples spoil the bushel.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:51 pm 
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It will always remain an ideal here, because it operates on the assumption that humanity is perfectable in it's current state. I don't think that's a good assumption because we are fallen, any attempts to create paradise on earth are going to lead to misery (such as communism).

There's still a standard of morality that's being appealed to.

You may also find the Tower of Babel interesting. It's where the nations originate from. An artist's rendition of it was used as a model in the construction of the EU buildings in Brussels.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:25 pm 
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https://www.learnmindpower.com/article/ ... of-change/

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4444&p=43614&hilit= ... nce#p43614


Change only happens because of choice, chance, or crisis.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:02 am 
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Tied in with this concept of change is the belief that everything is progressing towards perfection. This is not the case. Everything is in a process of decay since the fall.

I read somewhere about how genetic information is in fact being lost generation to generation. Which is one of the many problems with the failed theory of evolution.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:02 am 
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A theory is the highest possible achievement of science.

Evolution is a fact and a theory.

You're right, we are not progressing towards perfection.

The progress of evolution is actually called
natural selection, it is not a progress to perfection.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:31 am 
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Evolution is an almost unavoidable conclusion if you accept the assumptions of naturalism. Which are unreasonable assumptions.

That's absolutely the narrative that is being pushed. It's the idea that if we evolved we can continue to evolve into a state of perfection (or at least keep becoming more perfect). That's what is being offered with the convergence of the eastern religions specifically Hinduism into Western Culture. Meditation, transcendental meditation, yoga, and all of the new age hooey that we are being exposed to is tied in with "evolution".

Evolution has been completely railroaded now that it has to run it's lofty claims into hard science. Darwin also married his first cousin and when his children became sick he complained to his friends that "they are not very robust".

Oh and there's this
Quote:
The full title of Darwin’s most famous work included some stark words: On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life. Darwin envisioned the spontaneous formation of simple life evolving into higher forms through the pitiless forces of nature selecting the fittest.

Darwin demonstrated how he believed evolution shaped man in his subsequent book The Descent of Man. In it, he theorized that man, having evolved from apes, had continued evolving as various races, with some races more developed than others. Darwin classified his own white race as more advanced than those “lower organisms” such as pygmies, and he called different people groups “savage,” “low,” and “degraded.”

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:44 pm 
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There is nothing permanent, everything moves in waves

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:34 pm 
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peregrinus wrote: *
There is nothing permanent, everything moves in waves
I think you're mostly correct (there is nothing new under the sun) but it appears we are at an impasse :lol:
Quote:
I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:58 pm 
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Why do you think meditation is hooey when it clear helps people to let go of emotional baggage ?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:35 pm 
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fufe wrote: *
Why do you think meditation is hooey when it clear helps people to let go of emotional baggage ?
Because it's used as a band-aid. It's the same with yoga, because attempt to use it as a purely as physical thing but you cannot divorce it from it's spiritual intentions. Yoga is for communion with the hindu "gods", and mediation is for the same thing ultimately.

Meditation will not solve your past. If it had that power would it not have done so already? It's just an anesthetic.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:46 pm 
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Some members of this forum have used it for releasing emotional baggage effectively.

I wonder if you actually question what your church tells you, or you just follow - And I mean this honestly, I am not attacking you.


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