Natural Freedom

Seneca's death was quite painful. He wanted to die as he lived unafraid of pain and death. It's mentioned in the final Chapter of Robert Greene's book. .

I've been putting a lot of thought into the whole concept of death lately. There have been some pretty huge breakthroughs in different fields lately as to the nature of who we are.

The Todd Murphy Neurotheology lectures are pretty interesting. Due to advances in medicine we have an increasing number of people that are pronounced clinically dead and then are brought back. They share the same experiences a lot.

If you a proponent of natural selection (it does explain a lot of our world). How is it that people would evolve to share the same experiences? Once you dead you don't come back so there is no survival to pass on those genes?

There's similiarities in all religions. Why do all major religions share the idea of a live review?

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"The heart is deep beyond all things, and it is the man. Even so, who can know him."

Heh- most mainstream western church is about giving you mandates and answers.. this is right this is wrong, punishment and reward. Who you are is fundamentally corrupt (original sin etc) so don't look at it, just do your best to prove your worth via sacrifice and denial of natural drives. God is good and you are not but you can try.

This whole consciousness/ocean stuff goes in the opposite direction and it's logical conclusion is actually that there is no separation between you and 'God' and that heaven/hell are states of mind. The huge irony is that this is all the stuff Jesus said before twisted and interpreted (and certain parts 'strategically' left out by the church). This is the LAST thing they would ever want you talking about

That's quite a tangent though, and certainly offensive to at least a few people, heh.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXz8xMaJi4

I get the feeling that most religion is just a metaphor that went right over people's heads and caused people to take some everything seriously.

By that I don't mean the crazy shit in books like Leviticus and the like. The preachings of most gods.

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Take it easy, man. But take it.

I would trust that feeling.

Also when you control people's sexuality you have them by the balls (literally!) and it is an amazing vehicle for control.

This does not mean that people get no value out of religious teachings or can't use it to be better people, it still comes down to personal choice and interpretation -- but when looked at as an organizational structure in and of itself, and the motivation behind most figureheads, I'm not sure 'self realization' is even on the list IMHO.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXz8xMaJi4

Oh and don't forget FEAR The # 1 weapon to manipulate people.

They manage to use it to a decent degree in religion also.

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GMST

True. Religion tells you to live your life a certain way or else this or that.. It's all a tool for controlling people. Way back in ancient times, kings would tell people that God spoke to him and the people would do whatever he said because they believed he was the closest to God.

moose35,

I find the content of your first post a little pessimistic, limiting and maybe simplistic. I speculate that you are not a pessimist in person, but you have employed these beliefs as a defense mechanism against people and situations that influence you and your pimp tight mentality to bring back the old you, something that I am also facing since I still live with my family. Trust me, you do not have to. After you accept that death will come, when time comes, and you never know when and the fact that it is inevitable, the natural progression of life, there is no reason for you to worry about it or be obsessed with it.
This. Live your life for you, do whatever you feel like (as long as you do not violate the rights of another), leave behind everything and everyone holding you back. We should count both the years in our life and the life in our years, especially the latter. Two necessary conditions for your life to have meaning are health and happiness.

As far as health is concerned, these two should be mandatory for everyone to take a look at:
http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7875
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30gEiweaAVQ&feature=plcp

As far as happiness is concerned, this forum is more than enough. True happiness comes from within.

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The opposite of courage in our society is not cowardice, it's conformity.

Think you might have been right. Thanks for the wake-up call.

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Take it easy, man. But take it.

The reason to handle fear is to perform better without fear.
No performing better after death, pointless fear.

Death Wish (play it like DukeNukem...)

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They´d have to value religion first to be controlled by it.

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Since religion, death and consciousness have been mentioned here and I find them extremely interesting and important, here are my views on them:

Religion: Abramahic religions were created with the purpose of controlling the consciousness of humans and turning them into docile creatures through their scare tactics. Religiosity and the subsequent bigotry are the major factors hampering civilization and evolution. Conservatism is another bridle on the evolution of humankind. Specifically for my country, Greece, christianity was the beginning of the end during the Byzantine times. Indian religions, like Hinduism and Buddhism, are another category for me and certainly much more benign. They are more of ways of life than religions (in the strict sense of the term). Unfortunately, terrestrial science, except for a few bright exceptions, is enslaved to the religious establishment and those who devised and manage it to keep humans in the dark. But not for much longer...

Death: We can think of us as condensation of energy in a material body. The death of the material body comes naturally as a process of life. What if sometime we will evolve to the point we will be aware of this process? On this occasion, death would mean exemption from the worn material body for a new one.

The ability to live for many more years exists even now and the proof is in our vital organs. We may die but our organs are in good condition, even for days after we are gone we still have flourishing, "living" organs. If it were otherwise, wouldn't we have to collapse inside and out after death? Doesn't that prove that for some... unknown reasons we give up a body that is in good condition and we leave?

Consciousness: It is principally the sense, and thereafter the awareness of distinctness. And by distinctness I mean the ability of the mind to compare and detect differences between concepts, in other words judgment. As long as our consciousness is not influenced by the matrix and we all here, masters and apprentices, remain united, we are fine and the clarity of our minds is not threatened.

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The opposite of courage in our society is not cowardice, it's conformity.

Happiness - Fun - Excitement... Do whatever brings you that (But really those are emotions that you can choose to feel, you really don't even need anything from an outside source to feel them...but hey I'm human, I do like pussy, $$ and x-box ). That's my meaning anyway.

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The honey doesn't chase the bee.

A wise man once said "I find that a duck's opinion of me is influenced by whether or not I have bread."

The thing is, religion is not a great tool
for controlling people anyway. Look around.

Life has no meaning? Especially if death is
associated with the meaning as in the first post.
You´ll easily conclude this if you think you have to
give your power away mr GrimReaper. You don´t have to do
that. Acceptance works miracles.

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Respectfully I must say that I see a LOT of people basing their political stances, views about other people and groups, as well as what behavior they choose to "indulge" in or not based on "good [christian/whatever] values" -- even many of the ones who are not so obvious about it have this running in the background like I did re: women / sex. It also certainly has influence re: elected leaders and such.. there is a huge percentage that want a 'good christian man' in office to make 'good christian decisions' (which have almost nothing to do with anything Christ ever taught imho.) It's still gonna be some time before you can expect anyone running or in office NOT to say 'God bless america.'

Believing there was a very real chance I could go to hell made some imprints on me, I wasn't hip enough at 9 years old to look at it 'objectively' and I believe there is still plenty of this.

I do feel it is becoming less and less effective every year and view this as a good sign

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXz8xMaJi4

We have a bad picture of Hell then? Why(?) It´s in the mind.
That´s where it is painted.

It is written that Salvation and Enlightenment is God´s work
from the beginning... to the end.

Religion didn´t stop sin. It verified and explained what sin is.

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