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Time perception
http://naturalfreedom.info/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3201		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Scarf [ Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Time perception
Anybody here have any ideas in relation to time and it's concept?
Author:  Meraki [ Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Time perception
There is no time in direct experience.

Time only exists as a construct of the mind. Think about it - the only way we know time is passing is by comparing the current moment to the past or future, or the past/future against something else in the past/future.

The future only exists in your thoughts, and the past only exists in your thoughts, so you're comparing the now against thoughts, or thoughts against eachother. Thoughts are all just in your head and don't have any objective truth to them.
Author:  roark [ Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time perception
My view of time is that we perceive it as happening in a straight line, with the past behind us and the future ahead of us. But our experience of it doesn't have to be how it truly is, independently of our perception of it. The reality outside our perception could be that all moments exist simultaneously. This is my belief.

Analogy: we may perceive it as water moving through a garden hose, when it is really an ocean (paraphrased from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dies_ ... End_(film)).

Why do you ask?
Author:  Slim Titan [ Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Time perception
I've always understood time as something that affects other people.

Time is also contingent on space. Without space time can not exist.

Things must pass a distance. As long as things pass a distance then space exists and time must necessarily be bound up with that space.

1-level surface
2-level boundary
3-level distance
4-level time

Even instant occurrence presumes that it happened at some point. Where there is one point there must be a second point for transference to occur.
Author:  Scarf [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time perception
Slim Titan wrote:
I've always understood time as something that affects other people.

Time is also contingent on space. Without space time can not exist.

Things must pass a distance. As long as things pass a distance then space exists and time must necessarily be bound up with that space.

1-level surface
2-level boundary
3-level distance
4-level time

Even instant occurrence presumes that it happened at some point. Where there is one point there must be a second point for transference to occur.
That is a fantastic take on the subject.

There is also the excellent explanation that there was less before, there is more now.

I just wanted to see if anyone had any other ways of explaining this brilliant concept. My belief is that if we get a changed perspective on the subject, it could help all of us become more evolved, much happier and possibly more intelligent.
Author:  Flow83 [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Time perception
Interesting to see relative and absolute answers.

As a conscious being you have access to both. You do have access to the absolute where you can SEE (not theory) the stuff that everyone for thousands of years, who did not know each other and had no internet, said about time not really existing. That like the ego, it is a phenomenon of perception and not a thing.

Then you are also are playing here in the relative world of space and time. Here, there is a kick ass and fascinating world to dig into the stuff Slim Titan and Scarf are talking about.

This is why a master can slip into the world of no-time and no-space and then set up to meet with you at 4pm on friday without a conflict in the world.

Just wanted to throw that out there. I think a huge component to the happier/more evolved part is recognizing these two aspects and freely playing within the structure (and no-structure) and not seeing them as two arguing sides that contradict each other. Even though if you look at it intellectually, they do, which again is the fun part :ugeek:
Author:  Slim Titan [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Time perception
Here is a fantastic explanation that can get some heavy lifting on the subject done.

Below is Hume's Problem of Induction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_induction

The problem of induction is the philosophical question of whether inductive reasoning leads to knowledge understood in the classic philosophical sense,[1] since it focuses on the lack of justification for either:

Generalizing about the properties of a class of objects based on some number of observations of particular instances of that class (for example, the inference that "all swans we have seen are white, and therefore all swans are white", before the discovery of black swans) or
Presupposing that a sequence of events in the future will occur as it always has in the past (for example, that the laws of physics will hold as they have always been observed to hold). Hume called this the Principle of Uniformity of Nature.[2]

The problem calls into question all empirical claims made in everyday life or through the scientific method and for that reason the philosopher C. D. Broad said that "induction is the glory of science and the scandal of philosophy". Although the problem arguably dates back to the Pyrrhonism of ancient philosophy, David Hume introduced it in the mid-18th century, with the most notable response provided by Karl Popper two centuries later.
Contents

The induction principle is where the root of the relative concept of space and time come to their forefront. Interestingly, the end of the Hume thesis did not actually specify the fact that basing actions and ideas off of sensory perceptions in conscious experience negates continuity in relation to time. Thus, what we have left is a modest sense of continuation from conscious experience that is independent of time. The notion of time is actually useless in the Hume model because time is a deductive inference. However, I wouldn't necessarily call the deductive answer to the question of space and time as absolute.

There is also a simpler explanation of the subject at hand. If you look up these topics that Grinus mentioned in the Gems and precious threads section. We can probably expand on them.

http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopi ... f=3&t=2294
Author:  fufe [ Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Time perception
I tried to sum up my thoughts, started thinking deeper and found out that I don't know anything about nature of time :lol:

Scarf, just what are you up to ? :geek:
Author:  roark [ Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time perception
Scarf wrote:
My belief is that if we get a changed perspective on the subject, it could help all of us become more evolved, much happier and possibly more intelligent.
I agree totally. Also, for a long time I have held the view that the 'experience of time in a straight line' is the key to the 'mortal' experience. Not saying that we can become immortal or anything wild like that, though...
Flow83 wrote:
This is why a master can slip into the world of no-time and no-space and then set up to meet with you at 4pm on friday without a conflict in the world.

Just wanted to throw that out there. I think a huge component to the happier/more evolved part is recognizing these two aspects and freely playing within the structure (and no-structure) and not seeing them as two arguing sides that contradict each other.
Nice. This really put the whole thing into perspective for me - thanks - as Slim Titan's explanation also resonates with me. Time and space are, in this mode of reality at least, inextricably linked. (By the way Slim Titan - thanks for bringing up the problem of induction; worth looking into for me :) ).

It's very fascinating to me how we can look up at a star at night, and if that star is x# of light years away from us, then the light that we are currently seeing is from x# of years ago, yet we are seeing it right now.

Scarf, care to elaborate on the 'there was less before, there is more now' explanation? Or pointing me towards some reading material on it? I would be interested in reading more about this at a later date.
Author:  Alchemist [ Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Time perception
Time.

Not enough of it.

More valuable than money.

:lol:
Author:  Dali [ Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Time perception
Quote:
But time
Keeps flowing like a river (on and on)
To the sea, to the sea

Till it's gone forever
Gone forever
Gone forevermore
Author:  Scarf [ Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Time perception
roark wrote:
Scarf, care to elaborate on the 'there was less before, there is more now' explanation? Or pointing me towards some reading material on it? I would be interested in reading more about this at a later date.

:mrgreen:

Great ending line there.

Well - it solves the issue of the cigarette smoking man. If a guy smokes 20 a day, how is it that he gets lung cancer but not immediately? It's the build up of action and occurrences.

There were more films now than there were in 1974. There were less films then.

Similarly, if in the next two hours, you drink 2 litres of water, there is more water in you now than there was before. However, if you drink 8 litres of water in one hour, there's way more in you than there was before. Time here is counted by the amount of stuff that happens. Not the amount of seconds that pass on the clock. Seconds that we invented.

Just some thoughts. :)
Author:  fufe [ Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Time perception
Scarf wrote:
roark wrote:
Scarf, care to elaborate on the 'there was less before, there is more now' explanation? Or pointing me towards some reading material on it? I would be interested in reading more about this at a later date.

:mrgreen:

Great ending line there.

Well - it solves the issue of the cigarette smoking man. If a guy smokes 20 a day, how is it that he gets lung cancer but not immediately? It's the build up of action and occurrences.

There were more films now than there were in 1974. There were less films then.

Similarly, if in the next two hours, you drink 2 litres of water, there is more water in you now than there was before. However, if you drink 8 litres of water in one hour, there's way more in you than there was before. Time here is counted by the amount of stuff that happens. Not the amount of seconds that pass on the clock. Seconds that we invented.

Just some thoughts. :)
So if I sit on my ass and do nothing, time stops ? Or slows ? What if the everyone on earth decides to sit on their asses ????
What kind of sense is this supposed to make ?! :lol:
Author:  roark [ Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Time perception
Thanks for clarifying, Scarf.
Author:  Flow83 [ Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Time perception
fufe wrote:
So if I sit on my ass and do nothing, time stops ? Or slows ? What if the everyone on earth decides to sit on their asses ???? What kind of sense is this supposed to make ?! :lol:
Contrary to popular belief, the functioning of this planet and universe does not center around your human body.

Not only does it not care if you sit on your ass -- it doesn't care if you DIE. In fact, if you sit on your ass for say, 76 hours, you will - although even then you'll still be taking part, via breathing/oxygen, thoughts, your decomposing corpse :geek:
Author:  Slim Titan [ Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Time perception
Flow83 wrote:
fufe wrote:
So if I sit on my ass and do nothing, time stops ? Or slows ? What if the everyone on earth decides to sit on their asses ???? What kind of sense is this supposed to make ?! :lol:
Contrary to popular belief, the functioning of this planet and universe does not center around your human body.

Not only does it not care if you sit on your ass -- it doesn't care if you DIE. In fact, if you sit on your ass for say, 76 hours, you will - although even then you'll still be taking part, via breathing/oxygen, thoughts, your decomposing corpse :geek:
This is not true. Many poker players have come close to that time frame with a grinding session and have not.
Author:  Flow83 [ Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time perception
Slim Titan wrote:
Flow83 wrote:
fufe wrote:
So if I sit on my ass and do nothing, time stops ? Or slows ? What if the everyone on earth decides to sit on their asses ???? What kind of sense is this supposed to make ?! :lol:
Contrary to popular belief, the functioning of this planet and universe does not center around your human body.

Not only does it not care if you sit on your ass -- it doesn't care if you DIE. In fact, if you sit on your ass for say, 76 hours, you will - although even then you'll still be taking part, via breathing/oxygen, thoughts, your decomposing corpse :geek:
This is not true. Many poker players have come close to that time frame with a grinding session and have not.
Haha, i was referring to the 'adding nothing' ie no more or less water in the body (not drinking water)
Author:  rekieter [ Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Time perception
The only thing that matters is that with every day you have less and less time. So make best of it.
Author:  peregrinus [ Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Time perception
rekieter wrote:
The only thing that matters is that with every day you have less and less time. So make best of it.
Time does not matter

It is an illusion
Author:  Slim Titan [ Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Time perception
peregrinus wrote:
rekieter wrote:
The only thing that matters is that with every day you have less and less time. So make best of it.
Time does not matter

It is an illusion
I was going to give a similar response.

If time alters the way that you live your life then you should change your attitude because you're not in control of yourself.
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