Natural Freedom

Amen. Setting boundaries/ability to walk away (the latter applying more for once there is an actual "relationship") also seem to be the things men naturally can do that women can't.

There's always a testing of the boundaries to see that you are for real, which makes sense from nature perspective, and the willingness to walk away is the trump card should those boundaries be crossed. Have these and you hold the ball.. and it can be felt. show you don't and you are toast. I see it as natural selection vs something "cruel" - like calling a shark an evil bastard for eating a seal, it's just what it is.

Too many guys don't even consider the idea of setting boundaries-- all about whatever she wants that might get him laid/approved of. If they even get that far, fewer will hold the ability to walk out of fear of loss. Thus the endless cliche of "doing everything right" and getting burned - the whole paradigm is off and that is because the paradigm is learned, but never overrides nature.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXz8xMaJi4

Hehe - that is ultimately what BOTH want (well, need, might seem like something else is wanted) though, would you say?

IE, No matter how independent or modern or whatever life-plans are at play, I believe that deep down what is always running is "will this guy stand ground, hold his boundaries and who he is no matter what I throw at him, because he needs to protect the territory for the baby (irrelevant whether there is one or plans to be one or not, part of the programming)."

As soon as her / others' approval wins over his own position, he has shown weakness in the most fundamental area.. so she/them may get pissed off in the moment for your "stubbornness" or not getting what they want, but it's what people really want from a man deeper down. This seems to be at the core of 'people pleasing' mindset biting men in the ass over and over and over again, and so much of the confusion, as far as I can tell.

It's the irony that taking care of yourself first / your boundaries is actually what everyone else wants of you too, but because you will almost inevitably rock the boat a bit, face confrontation etc for doing it, it's totally missed or avoided. Or - the ego takes hold of this idea as a *technique* to get the approval of others/women, which is even more ironic

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXz8xMaJi4

Just read this thread, wow.
And yeah, ain't that the truth. Which is why I always collect intel on their Mothers, and relationship with, as soon as I can. It sort of does much of the work and from there I can deduce their belief system, more or less.

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All is more simple than you make it.

I can reverse engineer a picture of what their mother is like with a lot of accuracy just by talking to them

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"The heart is deep beyond all things, and it is the man. Even so, who can know him."

Agreed that this is possible, but one must be careful. The signs posted on a woman have fine print.

http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopi ... 561#p35207

I have a "role-model" theory. One of the premises is derived from the above post.

For example, If a woman says she's like her mother then you can bet dollars to cents she's like her father.

If a woman says she's like her father you can bet your money, your friend's money, and your friend's friend's acquaintance's money that she is an uncanny match for her mother.

Example one: A woman I was with told me that I was like her father. However, she said she's also like her father. She acted in none of the ways she described her father. She values her father though and wishes to have someone like him so she chooses me. Her real role-model is her mother. Her mother chose her father and she thinks to get someone that is like her father she should be like her mother. Later she tried to pull a power play on me, but bended to my will easily in the beginning. (relatively speaking because I did some things that women have never seen before when a guy is "GAMING" them).

Example two: A woman I was with told me again she was like her father. She hates her mother. These are her own words NOT MINE. Yet I've heard her mother in the background talking before and she talks like her mother and thinks like her mother. They argue for stupidest reasons. I've literally heard this over the phone. However, they DON'T argue like they hate each other. As in the first case, the girl values her father and wishes to have someone like him. Her real role model is her mother. You can literally hear her gush with love when she talks about how hard her mother works for her and what her mother does for her. This woman would not bend to my will until the dick entered her virgin pussy.

My "Hate" Theory is here in some detail. There is a crucial element missing. That adequately explains why predicting role-models is so accurate in understanding what the parents are like. I'll fill it in below.

http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopi ... 511#p35414

http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopi ... 511#p34592

In the second link, Roark never answered Grinus' third question. In answering Roark's question and watching a movie I have a speculation about the third answer. It fills in the gaps in a lot of what I said.

If you choose to join someone in a fight then I said earlier there is something you like about them. You may even want to be like them because hate is not placed correctly in reality. Anger is correctly placed in reality. However, anger does not always lead you to fighting. However, disliking someone for whatever reasons you have generally indicates that there is something in you that lacks. You have no reason to dislike someone for being different than you. It is a fact that no matter what perspective you choose to see them in you value them to some degree as a person. If you did not value them as a person then you would have no reason to think about them. Consequently, you must believe that there is something you are lacking or something they have that you actually like in them.

So, to answer the third question with that necessary digression, when you join a person in a fight you are saying that you love (value) that person as much as you love (value) yourself. Why? You could be endangering your life fighting that person. You have wagered your life and ability to exist as a person on their very behalf.

Anyone remember the saying that has not been said enough around here? Be your own best friend.

You are telling them that they are essentially your best friend. If you had not chose to fight them. Then they could be fighting for you. Why? Whatever reason you chose to fight over is a reason why they could fight for you.

Your enemy's enemy is your best friend.

Now if you apply the fact that fighting, EVEN ARGUING, with someone else is a fight then you can see how you value them as much as you value yourself. Why? you would have no reason to argue with them if what they were saying or doing does not have as much validity as what you are saying or doing.

Look at those examples again. You see two different things happening each example.

Edit: What is the difference between the two types of mothers that you can infer?

I apologize for giving mostly what I think in the first example because I can't remember too many details about the first example. She was a while ago, and I was bad at listening then.

2nd Edit: What conditions do you think must occur for the woman to be like who she says she is like?