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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 10:35 am 
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This is an explanation I put together quite a while ago, attempting to put some of my thoughts into the framework provided by Rion with his N.I.S (Natural, Inner, Social) character model.

Some parts of it seemed too limiting to me and too much like trying to fit things in boxes (I appreciate a lot of men like to do that),I was aware that people who were following his teachings (esp A.R.D) were thinking within this model, so I tried to explain some of my thoughts in that framework to 'open it up' a bit. I do not see the NIS as a full or accurate model, this was an attempt to try and explain some things within the language of NIS to people who were talking in that framework.

I have hesitated to post this, as I am aware that people on this board are trying to move away from that model from what I see, however I feel I should post it because for people who have spent time with Rion's model it may shed some light on where some of my other comments come from. Hopefully it will lead them to open up some of their views about what they see around them, rather than trying to fit people into boxes, or at least make the boxes have open sides.

I also did not post directly into treasure chest because it felt wrong somehow, if the people decide it should go in there then I am happy for it to be moved.

Remember this is in relation to the NIS model, not a full picture, it is meant to try and smash some of your beliefs and open up your view a bit..

Please read with an open mind.

Comments welcome

Regards,
Peregrinus
peregrinus wrote:
=-=-=-=-= Introduction

I hardly know where to start with this, as it seems so multi-threaded.

I once read a quote which went along the lines of ‘man speaks so little because he knows how difficult it is to describe the web of thoughts surrounding a subject. So rather than fail to describe it fully he would rather not speak any of it than only describe it partially.’

Bear with me; I will touch on many different aspects in that which is to follow. Some parts may seem out of place, they are setting the stage for other parts.

=-=-=-=-= Character/Charts

In Rion’s charts, he describes the natural, inner and social character of men. These charts were used to convey the ‘outer appearance’ character wise that women saw in men. For example, the natural man, the wussy and the pua. The charts were to describe how the appearance of the man would match up to the women’s wants and needs on a biological level.

I feel that this is only half the picture, possibly even less than half the picture.

A lot has been written about qualification and being selective, especially of women. Once you get beyond the thought of having sex with every woman on the planet and start to develop standards, then this becomes very relevant, but I feel the focus of this process is on the wrong things, or at least partially.

Say you peak out across the board in your outward character appearance to women, so that you appeal on a deep level to all of them, you can connect to them all and you could have any of them – would you really want all of them? Would all of them be a good match for you? Would you enjoy your time with them?

I would place a fair bet that a lot of them would not interest you one tiny little bit. This is where qualification comes in, not just of their interests or sexual ability but their underlying character (natural, inner, social).

As much as the man’s character is important, how he shows himself to the women in order to get their interest, surely the women’s character is also important. The women’s character is not only important from a view of how she will respond to the man’s character but also what a match she will be for the man, if the man will be interested in her beyond the initial ‘hello’.

In this document I will be considering both characters, men and women and they are interchangeable. What is important is how they interact, which is influenced by each person within an interaction and how the two characters react to each other, which combinations work and which ones will stall.



When describing character from now on, I will use the following notation (X% N, Y% I, Z% S)
X = percentage Natural
Y = percentage Inner
Z = percentage Social
The N, I, S are there for ease of reading.

NOTE: All three co-exist, they are NOT mutually exclusive. Being alpha in one trait does not stop one being alpha in another. So each value can peak out at 100%, all three could be 100% for someone who is an alpha natural, alpha inner and alpha social.


For example:
If you wish to have a social time with lots of games then a pure social (0% N, 0% I, 100% S) may well fit the bill.

If you wish to indulge in intelligent deep logical conversation then a pure inner (0% N, 100% I, 0% S) will fit the bill.

If you wish to bask in that which is pure feminine energy then a pure natural (100% N, 0% I, 0% S) will fit the bill.

The above examples are extremes, finding someone with 100% in one area and 0% in the others I would imagine would be very rare indeed. However it is useful to illustrate some examples without confusing things so I will use some below in examples.

The more usual situation would be to find someone with varying percentages in each area, also to a varying degree. This presents us with a common mathematical problem, which is what is 100% - is that 100% across all people (ie. The maximum it can possibly be) or is it the peak value for that particular person.

For example, say we take a group of social alphas, it would be very odd if they were all equal on that level, some will be slightly more alpha than others (higher rating). This makes it quite difficult to assign realistic examples to these. For the purposes of this document 100% is considered an alpha of any level, if a person is less than an alpha then the maximum may be lower. For example a person might be an alpha social but not an alpha inner or alpha natural – (50% N, 40% I, 100% S)

Also, in different situations, people will display a differing amount of their traits (N, I, S). This means that they could have a higher value than they are currently displaying.
I will give an example - a shy man, high in natural character. Initially you might not notice the natural it as it is hidden or partially hidden. However when he gets to know people he may very well ‘open up’ and become more natural as he relaxes his defence of shyness, he may have a developed inner side as a defence or just hide his natural side.

For this reason I am going to extend this notation to include two percentages, the first is the maximum for that person and the second is how much they are currently displaying. (100%/50% N, 100%/50% I, 100%/50% S)

So if we take a shy guy with strong natural character (not alpha) we may get a base of (70% N, 30% I, 10% S)
Take him amongst strangers and he might well be (70%/10% N, 30%/30% I, 10%/5% S) his inner becomes his protection so is expressed.
Put him amongst close friends and he might be (70%/50% N, 30%/5%, 10%/5% S) as his inner defences drop, his social mask drops and more of his natural side is expressed.
On his own he might be (70%/70% N, 30%/0%, 10%/0% S) as he opens up and expresses himself totally.

Along the same lines, if we take a social alpha woman, we may have a base of (20% N, 10% I, 100% S)
Take her out in a social situation and she may show (20%/0% N,10%/0% I,100%/100% S)
With her friends, her mask will still be on, so she may show (20%/5% N, 10%/ 5% I, 100%/100% S) showing some of her other qualities may leak through.
Put her alone with her boyfriend and she may show (20%/20% N, 10%/5% I, 100%/20% S)

The two examples show how the same person may seem quite different depending on the situation. There are also two sides to each of the N, I, S. One is the almost internal value and one is the external mask side to it. Some people are well used to using the inner and social sides as masks to be put up and put down, others may be so stuck in using their mask that they have difficulty in lowering it even if they want to – it may be so well used and strong that they cannot drop it all the way even with close friends or partners.

A high social side can be both a benefit at times and a mask to hide behind; the same is also true of an inner side.

=-=-=-=-= Connecting

An extreme example is if we take someone alpha across the board (100% N, 100% I, 100% S) who is able to regulate how much of each part of their character they let out in each situation. This person would be able to relate with equal effectiveness to pretty much anyone, as they could tailor themselves to the responses of the other and hence gain very fast rapport and a deep connection.
With social people they could connect to them on the social level, with inners on the inner level and with naturals on the natural level.


Now consider an inner alpha meeting a social alpha, I would put forward that they would find it quite hard to connect as they would be approaching each other on different levels. The same could also be said to be true of a natural alpha meeting either an inner or social alpha.

There has to be common ground for a connection to work, this is why conventional PUA’s tend to end up with social alphas, they are both connecting on the social level – only later as they relax with each other do their natural sides come out, will they connect on any kind of natural level.

This is also why quite a few of the PUA’s tend to end up doing more natural style game as they go on, they relax their own mask and let more of themselves out as their confidence grows and the whole process becomes more ‘natural’ to them as their confidence grows. They start off putting up a mask to achieve their aims and connect to people on a social level but as time goes on and they become more comfortable that mask drops more and more, hence exposing their natural side, while at the same time their natural side grows as their internal confidence expands.



This leads me on to natural alphas connecting with various people of differing types. Say we take a pure natural alpha (100% N, 0% I, 0% S)

If we put them in front of a pure social alpha (0% N, 0% I, 100% S), there is no common ground. The natural cannot connect to the social as there is no natural side to connect with, it cannot be brought out as it is not there.

If we put them in front of a pure inner alpha (0% N, 100% I, 0% S), there is no common ground. The natural cannot connect to the inner as there is no natural side to connect with, it cannot be brought out as it is not there.

Now if we take a social alpha with a natural streak (30% N, 0% I, 100% S), there is a natural side to them that the natural can connect with, providing it is already out or can be brought out.
Rarely would the social be in the natural state when they meet (30%/30% N, 0%/0% I, 100%/0% S)
The issue then becomes which mode the social is in (30%/30% N, 0%/0% I, 100%/100% S) showing the natural side under the social side, or the other alternative would be using the social mask and hiding her natural side (30%/0% N, 0%/0% I, 100%/100% S) in which case it the social would have to either let it out or it be brought out by the natural.

I have used the extreme cases above to illustrate when someone has a very strong inner or social mask that has been ‘hardened’ over years and does not drop easily. They have suppressed their natural side so much even around friends that it almost is not there, it is there somewhere but buried so deep that its almost invisible.

=-=-=-=-= The confusion

The natural may initially have mistaken the social for a very social (0% N, 0% I, 100% S) and have overlooked any natural side being shown, or may not have been shown it. If the natural was too focussed on the labelling the social as a social then the natural could very easily be overlooked. The socials natural side if hidden may only come out when the natural connects to it by being natural and interacting on that level rather than just labelling the social as a social.

In this way it can be confusing because we may label people by their most dominant character trait rather than looking at the mix that they have. Take time to explore where their inner, social and natural character traits are on the scale.

If the natural was to connect to the social side instead of the natural side then the natural side might not be evident or shown, hence it is important to show the natural side so that the response can be made to the stimulus.

What has just been illustrated above is also true of an inner. You could potentially be blinded by the mask of inner or social if not specifically probing or looking for the natural side, by any clues that may be being shown – little glimpses of the natural side showing through.

In this way it should be suggested to accept that the inner or social side is there, take it under advisement and note the level but be very aware of any glimpses of the natural side, the tell tale signs that creep through. Depending on how strong a mask the person has developed either more or less signs may creep through. If the mask is very strong and developed then they may be able to resist giving signs if a natural side is there in that case it is very hard to tell, unless you honestly show your natural side in which case their natural side may have to show.

This is where one important mistake can be made; they may try to bait you (unconsciously or consciously) into connecting or interacting with their social or inner character, which is part of the defence if it is being used as a mask. If you do this then you take the interaction onto either the social or inner level instead of the natural level, this may happen many times during an interaction. If they are using it as a mask then this is a tactic to try and stop you connecting to their natural character, some people can find it quite overpowering to have someone connect to their natural character and so can fight against it, either unconsciously or consciously.

They may also want to stop you connecting to it for other reasons, for example they are attached and do not want to jeopardise that relationship and know if you connect to their natural side that they might not be able to help responding to it.

Remember you are the stimulus and they are the response, if you are the stimulus they have to respond to some level, even if it is just seeing them trying not to respond which is as much a response as a natural display. The difference between their normal behaviour and them trying to control their reaction should be quite noticeable and in that sense they have had a reaction just not the one you were quite expecting.

=-=-=-=-= Qualification/Standards

As I said earlier:
“Say you peak out across the board in your outward character appearance to women, so that you appeal on a deep level to all of them, you can connect to them all and you could have any of them – would you really want all of them? Would all of them be a good match for you? Would you enjoy your time with them?”

“I would place a fair bet that a lot of them would not interest you one tiny little bit. This is where qualification comes in, not just of their interests or sexual ability but their underlying character (natural, inner, social).”

This is where the ones who did not display the mix of character traits that appeal to you would not be a good match for you. For example, I would personally prefer a mix of the qualities so the person is a balanced person able to exist and connect in many different environments.

Someone who could be natural, inner or social when the situation called for it, without being tied up in one or the other. Not being constrained to one as a mask but able to regulate the levels of each.

For example it may be good to show their social side when out with them, their inner side when you want to have a good discussion or find the solution to something and their natural side when you want to have some good connection time and fun in an intimate setting. Not cutting the others off, but regulating the level of each one, still allowing the others to show through but not so they are fighting each other.

Basically I think this is what the other side is looking for within us. Not everyone wants someone who is peaked out in all three character traits, someone who shows the right mix for you would be a good match. I think this is where qualification and standards come in, finding out what mix suits you and therefore what kind of person would go well with you.

I could not imagine being with someone who did not have inner and social traits as well as natural character, to me a balance is needed. They would need to be able to switch between roles in the moment, flow with the situation as they would expect me to as well.

People tend to label the inner or social sides as being a negative thing because they are trying to find the natural side, so they can connect, once you get beyond that concept then the social and inner sides can be very valuable providing they are not used as a mask to keep you out.


Also remember there are a lot of people out there who are not alpha in any of the traits. We tend to label them by their most dominant trait IN THAT SITUATION, rather than considering the spectrum of traits that they possess.

=-=-=-=-= Conclusion

ALL the people you meet will have SOME natural character.

It may be hidden behind a mask, it probably will. The thing that is important is if the mask is conscious or unconscious, on purpose or due to nurture/upbringing. These factors affect how easily they will let it out and how hard it will be for you to bring it out of them.

Look to connect to them on the natural level, not on the inner or social levels that they tempt you with to possibly keep you away from the natural.

Do take into account that western people (women in particular) may not want to let their natural side out in some situations and around certain groups of people, even their friends when out. Respect this, show them your natural side so they know it is there but do not try and force them to let it out, notice the glimpses that show you it is there so you can explore further when in a different situation.

Some people will not have enough natural character within them or be willing to let it out to interest you, if so then fine, move on. It is their choice, their loss and your gain – at least you now know they do not fit your standards.

=-=-=-=-= Final Comments

DO NOT FORGET : Natural, social and inner CO-EXIST within people, they are all in there.

So you will have women who are:
70% natural, 50% social, 10% inner.
90% natural, 30% social, 20% inner
10% natural, 80% social, 30% inner
10% natural, 10% social, 80% inner
100% natural, 100% social, 100% inner
10% natural, 10% social, 10% inner

These parts of their character are not mutually exclusive, just because a person has strong natural character does not mean the others are not there.

Find the natural character within the person and connect to that, DO NOT get distracted or mislead by the social or inner character, it is a smokescreen of protection. Accept it is there and seek out the natural character.

=-=-=-=-=


_________________
In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 11:12 am 
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this is a great post peregrinus, I remember you sent it to me via email and I told you that it's a great explanation.

Thanks for sharing this here, I hope all guys read it

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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 1:19 pm 
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Why would they 'tempt' a guy away from the natural, because she doesn't trust him?.

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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 1:33 pm 
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create wrote:
Why would they 'tempt' a guy away from the natural, because she doesn't trust him?.
well, it's that and also the environment in which she does not feel safe to be natural.

In Thailand or Hong Kong women don't have a problem showing their natural character because in those countries it is not considered a weakness or looked upon as something bad.

In Hong Kong if a woman tries to act masculine she would look like a freak :mrgreen:

As an analogy: men would not show their feminine side in public cause you are supposed to be macho.... 8-)

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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 1:08 pm 
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create wrote:
Why would they 'tempt' a guy away from the natural, because she doesn't trust him?.
There are various reasons, from what I have seen personally they are usually more about her than the guy.

I have seen it because she did not feel safe with a guy, however in my view it was more about her than the guy, she did not feel safe letting it out, because she was not used to unleashing that side of herself. (think of guys you know who are afraid of their sexual side and so hold it in)

There is also the case where she is aware and knows the guy isn't up to the job, so does not want to show that side because she knows he will become like a limpet and she will not be able to get rid of him. Self preservation.

I have also seen women refuse to do it, because the ones that do around here tend to get swamped by guys REALLY quickly, like it can set off a whole venue if one goes really feminine, because the guys are so drawn to her. It is a very powerful thing to see.

The women I have met who try this, it is because they do not trust their feminine side (natural) and are not used to letting it out, somehow they feel vulnerable or unsafe when they do. They for some reason associate it with being weak or vulnerable..

Oh how mistaken they are.

There is of course the caveat to this, in that the more the guy is in the right mindframe the less she will be able to try and tempt him, the less it will work also. The more also they will be drawn towards letting this side out, it is quite entertaining to watch the whole process in action - I have had the pleasure of both witnessing it and being a part of this dance on occasions.

If you haven't watched it, watch the video in this thread (woman reclaiming her feminity) : http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=174
See how much she fights against letting it out, yet it is there, it comes out quite quickly and easily when she lets go... Yet she was holding on so tight it never got let out before.. (she was tempting people away from it, including herself, by only showing the other sides to herself)
I think that will give you some ideas on your question.

In summary, a whole variety of reasons, almost as individual as the person.

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:33 am 
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very good explanation Peregrinus!

"finding out what mix suits you and therefore what kind of person would go well with you."

I totally agree with this and I was thinking about this as I was grounding on new material..
For example take this girl. I think she is very natural (100%) and spontaneous but at the same time with high developed social traits (100%)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdpyvLue ... KVw08O-Iyg (from 0:30)


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:44 pm 
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Aren´t you forgetting the Relational (LOA)? That´s more powerful. Naturals are not aware, inner social certainly are not aware, but Relational is aware with power. Naturals in these other countries don´t necessarily know how to harness Energy and LOA, except maybe through Tantra (and if they know about it)

It is a fact that "We become what we think of". Every Saint and Prophet knew it, and Napoleon Hill knew it, he studied "it" for 25 years.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:07 pm 
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Subject: Expansion and partial explanation of N.I.S.
peregrinus wrote:
People tend to label the inner or social sides as being a negative thing because they are trying to find the natural side, so they can connect, once you get beyond that concept then the social and inner sides can be very valuable providing they are not used as a mask to keep you out.
This was a powerful read for me...especially the quoted part!

I had to reread it twice immediately, because I knew there was more to it for me.

After my stint with PUA and playing the social mask to get 'results' I swayed to the more natural side of things. Like you said, once I gained more confidence being social I was drawn to the 'natural side'. I always was more drawn to the natural side, but because of my beliefs, confidence and desire to NOT let-go back then I didn't let the opportunity of my natural side present itself to other people.

In shifting to a more natural approach I choice to label the social side, 'game', as the almighty hell! I stayed far away from it! In doing so I only harmed MYSELF.

I became less social and more rigid...if someone wasn't going to show their natural side with me, then I wasn't having any of it. It wasn't a happy time for me.

Reading this thread really OPENED my eyes to what I did and was still sort of doing. When you truly see all-sides of you and not focus on only one part you become a well-rounded person.

Interesting enough my shyness, which I viewed as a curse, was and has been a valuable asset all along.

Me having my shy 'moments' has allowed me the space to observe with my full attention; aka if I'm not 'in the mix', then I can watch the entire thing from outside.

Wow...it's so FUNNY I thought this part of me was a curse! :lol:

Meraki and I chatted about this a while back and back then I couldn't see the forest for the tree's, but I'm glad we chatted about it, because a seed was planted! ;)

All in all such a GREAT thread! Thank you for sharing it peregrinus and your 2nd post in this thread is also spot on!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:27 pm 
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peregrinus wrote:
There are various reasons, from what I have seen personally they are usually more about her than the guy.
This made me think of a past experience I had about 3 or 4 years ago with a manageress that I still remember.

I wasn't acquainted with this forum yet, and I was in the midst of shuffling through PUA material and finding my Way. I had a very good friend at the time who was more experienced and quite older than I was. He also had an observant eye and aided a lot in my growth over the years.

After some talking together he informed me that I was still holding onto the past and suggested that I do some free-writes and letters to people who I have a grudge or who have hurt me in some way. I did what he asked and wrote...I kept writing for some time!

After I had finished and could not think of nothing else to write I needed to go outside for a bit, because I was filled with energy. I remember that I felt VERY light and 'transparent' (life was going through me and NOT around me).

Back then I still had poor beliefs about myself, but for a moment it did not matter. I went to a local burger joint and ordered myself a burger. To my surprise the women who took my order LIT UP when she saw me and interacted with me! I have to capitalize it again, because it was that apparent...she LIT UP when she interacted with me. I was a virgin to such an experience, so it took me by SURPRISE.

She was utterly and completely into me and not afraid to show it in front of others. I must mention that I was not 'gaming' her...if anything I felt a bit 'off', because after the introspection I just did I was being myself without much of the weight I usually carried around, I was NOT used to feeling so 'light' and 'burden-less'.

She told me to come back.
She told me she's the manager.
She told me when she works.
She told me we can get a coffee or something.

Before this I was struggling with how to chat with women and how to ask for her women number! So, this was an utter shock! :lol:

Looking back I can see I had given her space and was showing my 'natural' self to her in that moment. She was very receptive to it and I would also say confidently that she is a women who SEEKS for her natural side to come out. She probably had been involved with other men who have not allowed her to tap into her natural side, but she deeply desired to have that side of her flow out. She was tired of not being able to be in that side.

I'm glad I had that experience! It planted a seed for later things to come. :D


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:44 am 
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bliss :D

Your second message was a 'moment' for sure.

When they want it to happen, it will happen.
When they feel it, they will show it.


Interesting observations and posts that were a pleasure to read 8-)

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 3:37 pm 
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It was peregrinus, it sure was. :D

You wrote something along the lines that some women hold back their natural side and that can be for many reasons. One of them could be that women aren't able to show their natural sides, because most men can't handle it; they fall apart in it.

I could see how that is so.

I feel many men can't handle their own natural side, let alone another persons. A women expressing her natural side is not only enjoyable, but powerful! If a man can't stand strong in his own presence and have the right mindset, then he stands little chance in front of that women. She will withdraw given the lack of space by the man...and that leads me to...a REAL MAN is a RARE THING! :D

-

This thread also broke down many other things for me in regards to people.

People having many sides of them and not just 'natural' or 'social' sides, plus the golden thought that none of those sides are 'bad' as a long as they are not used to hide from the ' natural' side. This put things into perspective.

A while ago I was 'trying' to bring out people's natural side, that was useless. Trying to do it was the wrong place to start from. Being MYSELF will do it alone. If the other person wants to they will do it on their own. This is very similar to: no need to 'game', if she wants to she will make it apparent she is choosing you.

It also put to the rest the thought I had to bring out people's natural side. That's none of my business. Again, being myself naturally is all I need to do. They will come out themselves if they want to.

With that I feel I have more freedom now to play with my other sides and connect with others on their different sides (natural, social, intellectual). I won't feel like I'm 'cheating' myself anymore, because I will be coming from a place that "I'm not coming from I or S to avoid N, N is still their while I play from the other sides!"

Truly a great thread peregrinus! One of my favorites. So much to think about!


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:58 pm 
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Relational Character (unexplained) *
Natural Character (explained)
Inner Character (explained)
Social Character (explained)

* Your conscious and unconscious choices to develop your N.I.S. characteristics
Relational Character is the true potential you have as a man/woman, and has the
power to override all N.I.S. characteristics.

For example, a decision to learn Russian language is made in your relational
character, but the ultimate results will be built on your inner character.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:39 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:51 pm
Posts: 2046
Location: Laniakea Supercluster
You can draw infinitely from your Relational Character.
It is the ultimate leveler (=something that treats or affects all people the same way)

1) Just remember Barnes' story in Think and Grow Rich. He had very little going on
in his Inner-Social Character, he looked like a bum, while in his mind;
he wasn't working for Edison, he was working WITH Edison.
He fed power to his VISION every day. He then took the definite action and realized his dream.
(A strong Relational Character.)

2) Remember Arnold's story, marrying a Kennedy, becoming a huge movie star.
(note; A Kennedy, not a specific person at that time, he wasn't forcing the outcome
through a specific woman.)

R.N.I.S expansion

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