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The list of toxic masculine traits
http://naturalfreedom.info/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4718
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Author:  Altair [ Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:00 pm ]
Post subject:  The list of toxic masculine traits

https://cmhc.utexas.edu/vav/vav_masculi ... ctive.html

Found this on twitter

Some select gems

Strong
Successful
In control
Stand up for themselves
Don't back down
Take care of people

...so toxic :lol:

Author:  TheKing_65 [ Tue May 01, 2018 5:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The list of toxic masculine traits

Whoever wrote that is definitely in the right department. Now, he/she needs to check-in as a patient and stop trying to be the doctor.

Author:  peregrinus [ Tue May 01, 2018 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The list of toxic masculine traits

The footnote, right at the end:

The Girl Hunt: Urban Nightlife and the Performance of Masculinity as Collective Activity
David Grazian
https://works.bepress.com/david_grazian/7/

Author:  Altair [ Tue May 01, 2018 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The list of toxic masculine traits

peregrinus wrote: *
The footnote, right at the end:

The Girl Hunt: Urban Nightlife and the Performance of Masculinity as Collective Activity
David Grazian
https://works.bepress.com/david_grazian/7/
He looks like a good role model :lol:

Author:  Jared [ Tue May 01, 2018 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The list of toxic masculine traits

お前はもう死んでいる。

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIaaK2Rqg70

Author:  zogler [ Fri May 04, 2018 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The list of toxic masculine traits

I agree with Ryan Hoover on this issue, including his interaction with a Kimberly Erwin.

https://www.facebook.com/RyanHooverFTF/ ... 2633062532

peregrinus wrote: *
The Girl Hunt: Urban Nightlife and the Performance of Masculinity as Collective Activity
David Grazian
"young men sexually objectify women", "sexual objectification of women" - Quoted from the second page

Hmm... viewtopic.php?f=7&t=199&p=1173#p1173


He also seems biased against bars and nightclubs as ways of meeting a partner.
In fact it is the only traditional way of meeting that has not been in decline during the Internet era.
His dear "in college or in the workplace" are being displaced by the Internet.

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10. ... 2412448050

Author:  peregrinus [ Fri May 04, 2018 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The list of toxic masculine traits

Lets take a different slant..

Instead of trying to find things wrong with what he wrote, what did he write that resonates deeply with you?

Author:  Altair [ Sat May 05, 2018 5:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The list of toxic masculine traits

Well, he's not wrong on the competitive nature part. There are other parts too about that fact that you have to be "fiercely independent" that on some level are tempting to believe. Other parts like there is no biological basis for masculinity are questionable.

I mean aside from the obvious ideological slant, it's got a lot of appeals to negate the burden of responsibility. It doesn't matter how I want things to be though, it matters how they are. It reminds me a lot of the scene in the Matrix where Cypher is enjoying his steak.

I often wonder how people like him are created. I suspect events in his life lead him to the path he is on, but it's curious why more people don't become like us. Aside from the obvious it appears to be the harder path.

Author:  Resonance [ Mon May 07, 2018 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The list of toxic masculine traits

Altair wrote: *
I mean aside from the obvious ideological slant, it's got a lot of appeals to negate the burden of responsibility. It doesn't matter how I want things to be though, it matters how they are. It reminds me a lot of the scene in the Matrix where Cypher is enjoying his steak.

I often wonder how people like him are created. I suspect events in his life lead him to the path he is on, but it's curious why more people don't become like us. Aside from the obvious it appears to be the harder path.
https://youtu.be/VdxAx3kYdWs

Not all of us are fortunate enough to come across mentors, or information to guide us to the better way, we don’t know what we don’t know.

The video I linked to should answer your question or at the very least spark deeper thought and inquisition

Author:  zogler [ Sat May 12, 2018 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The list of toxic masculine traits

peregrinus wrote: *
Instead of trying to find things wrong with what he wrote, what did he write that resonates deeply with you?
peregrinus wrote: *
With both, take what you find useful to YOU, discard the rest.
Lesson learned back then


"However, in the long run it is eventually likely to deflate the confidence of those who inevitably continue to fall short of such exaggerated expectations and who consequently experience the shame of a spoiled masculine identity."

"Instead of being too concerned with not screwing up and seeming “weird or desperate,” Darryl now felt like he was in control."

"This is where the night gets really interesting... ...as if their own masculinity is validated by his success."

"...turning a heterosexual public encounter with a stranger into an immediately consummated sexual episode is a statistical rarity, especially when compared with the overwhelming degree of time, money, effort, and emotion that young men invest in such an enterprise."

"Competitive sex talk among adolescent peers in the hours leading up to the girl hunt create an unrealistic set of sexual expectations for impressionable young men, particularly those who already suffer from anxiety over their body image and sexual development."

"Meanwhile, as men grow older and gain additional markers of status (i.e., occupational prestige), they may no longer require the pregaming rituals of confidence building once considered necessary preparation for the girl hunt."

Author:  Scarf [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The list of toxic masculine traits

zogler wrote: *

"young men sexually objectify women", "sexual objectification of women" - Quoted from the second page

Hmm... viewtopic.php?f=7&t=199&p=1173#p1173

This is his abstract / summary.

Drawing conclusions from the cited research is literally the whole point of the paper.

Author:  PimpDee [ Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The list of toxic masculine traits

Altair wrote: *
Well, he's not wrong on the competitive nature part. There are other parts too about that fact that you have to be "fiercely independent" that on some level are tempting to believe. Other parts like there is no biological basis for masculinity are questionable.

I mean aside from the obvious ideological slant, it's got a lot of appeals to negate the burden of responsibility. It doesn't matter how I want things to be though, it matters how they are. It reminds me a lot of the scene in the Matrix where Cypher is enjoying his steak.

I often wonder how people like him are created. I suspect events in his life lead him to the path he is on
Let's pretend that I can read his mind and know his history: a mix of different things like envy even a political agenda.
He in someway is trying to punish those male losers who women crave by being now in a position of power so he can be heard. The so called "beta revolution?" maybe I do not know.

Author:  zogler [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The list of toxic masculine traits

Maslow on the strongest people in our society
Quote:
“The strongest people in our society are maybe the softest– in the sense of being altruistic and idealistic… Part of the American difficulty with affection, love, and sentiment is mixed up with our never-ceasing effort to look tough, strong, invulnerable. It is as if mature adults are trying to cloak themselves in the whole adolescent interpretation of masculinity. I remember recently seeing a teenage antiwar protestor on the television news. He was carrying a placard saying, “I am a man.” Then, he began throwing rocks into storefront windows! Well, men do not throw rocks into windows. Only kids do.”
On masculinity
Quote:
“The definition of adult masculinity– of what a fully grown, mature man is like– certainly includes softness, that is, the ability to become sentimental and affectionate. It is only the adolescent male who does not dare to show his affection. You know, adolescents today find it very hard to display affection because behavior appears weak. So unfortunately, they miss out on many good things… [Clearly stating good things] is a mature, psychologically health attitude. It is typical of the man who feels authentically self-confident and who can, therefore, be tender. But if you lack self-confidence, then you have to act tough all the time and consequently to overdo tough behavior.”
https://www.scottbarrykaufman.com/maslo ... r-society/

Author:  peregrinus [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The list of toxic masculine traits

zogler wrote: *
Quote:
“The definition of adult masculinity– of what a fully grown, mature man is like– certainly includes softness, that is, the ability to become sentimental and affectionate. It is only the adolescent male who does not dare to show his affection. You know, adolescents today find it very hard to display affection because behavior appears weak. So unfortunately, they miss out on many good things… [Clearly stating good things] is a mature, psychologically health attitude. It is typical of the man who feels authentically self-confident and who can, therefore, be tender. But if you lack self-confidence, then you have to act tough all the time and consequently to overdo tough behavior.”
https://www.scottbarrykaufman.com/maslo ... r-society/
This hits me...

Spent the weekend watching the 100 year events, lots and lots of interviews with men who have been through hell and lived to tell the tale.. Young, old and everything in between.

Not one of them acted all tough, they were full of emotion and ok with it.. They owned it...
They were opening up with no thought of protection or weakness..

The affection they showed for friends, family and others was very touching.

Very touching to the soul.

Author:  TheDude [ Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The list of toxic masculine traits

peregrinus wrote: *
This hits me...

Spent the weekend watching the 100 year events, lots and lots of interviews with men who have been through hell and lived to tell the tale.. Young, old and everything in between.

Not one of them acted all tough, they were full of emotion and ok with it.. They owned it...
They were opening up with no thought of protection or weakness..

The affection they showed for friends, family and others was very touching.

Very touching to the soul.

Do you know the name of video you watched over the weekend? It sounds like it was good.

Author:  peregrinus [ Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The list of toxic masculine traits

TheDude wrote: *
Do you know the name of video you watched over the weekend? It sounds like it was good.
It was not a video.. it was a series of broadcasts on various channels of the various events going on from various countries, most of which seemed to involve interviews with veterans of all ages.

to expand, as I recieved a few PMs on this

Sadly they were not videos I was watching...

they may be available, on youtube... some of it

I watched hours of broadcasts across 3 days from terrestrial tv stations, many different ones..
I was watching live transmissions of the events... when there were pauses they had interviews either with people there, or small pre recorded selections...

So there were many across the 3 days... events in various countries around europe that were involved..

Author:  TheDude [ Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The list of toxic masculine traits

DVR peregrinus...DVR!

;)

Author:  Dali [ Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The list of toxic masculine traits

This comes in handy as I'm reading Iron John from Robert Bly in spanish.

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