Natural Freedom

I think you just explained it perfectly

Now that I think about it, a lot of guys that I talked to that were doing natural grounding never saw any of Rion's programs and thus were not effected by the marketing (they were not expecting the crazy results Rion talks about in his program so they were less disappointed), and like you said:

"there is no magic pill, there are a series of pills each of which bring you closer"

And I will also add that we are all different and what works for one guy will not necessarily work for everyone. That's why when Rion said on the program that Natural grounding will do this and that for everyone- is just ego.

He thought that if it did this and that for him, it will do the same for everyone (he forgot that people are at different levels and that we all have different personality,traits and style....)

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"a sniper is the worst romancer, he never makes the first move"

I have not seen/bought any of Rion's products either, so I wouldn't know of his marketing/promise of results. Though on the NG guide he makes it clear enough that it works. In the beginning, these expectations were the death of me though. I sought and sought on the inside to recieve validation via reactions from women...Never recieved any. I distinctly remember one day at school, I was walking...not thinking of anything in particular. Didn't expect anything, even after I grounded the day before, and everyone was staring. Like full-on staring. That was my first experience with the effects of NG.

NG is what it is, regardless of the spin-offs Rion created, or what he calls it or whatever. It's still simple and straightforward.

I know, I've quoted Marcus a lot. I realize this, and I don't like to keep having to quote him, and I know everyone is sick of hearing his name, but the only reason I keep quoting him is because he has put what I'm trying to say, eloquently.

I felt the same way as you Shay. "Giving up women sounds rediculous. I'm not gonna get women by not wanting them, I don't care if I feel happy by myself, I still don't get women." The truth is that's not true though.

And it is kind of hard to see at first.

Women sense this energy. And like Kindred (lol, i'm dropping a new name! ) said, this shit works at such a tiny microscopic level. Nothing can be faked. It takes a leap of faith, and it is well worth it.

It's a cumulative effect. Besides, what's wrong with just being happy? Why should your existence be conditional? Women shouldn't be a goal. What kind of natural alpha puts getting the other sex as a goal? Palmy doesn't. James Bond doesn't. Yet what happens? EVERYONE is attracted to them.

If something can affect your mental state negatively, it has power over you.

"So what you're saying, Midnight, is that if Shay didn't expect so much from natural grounding, THEN he could expect better results from natural grounding. That IS what you're saying "

No, I'm saying to not expect anything at all. Not that you should "try not to expect, only to expect later." That's still having expectations. I'm saying none at all. Like don't even think about results. Be happy with yourself/with a woman/without her. To your ego, it looks like you're losing sight of "what matters", but as a zen master said "I want nothing, and have everything"

I just wrote on the mastery lounge:

It all comes back to what I said earlier: we don't need women to make us happy or whole
but we are here learning and doing grounding because we want to get better with women(among other things).

So reapeting Marcus's words that we should not want women is ridiculous and trying to use natural grounding just to feel good is also missing the point.

We are not here on some crusade to become ascetic\monks who only do natural grounding
and never get any experience with women in real life.

Just like: I can be happy without money but that doesn't mean I don't want it or stop trying to get it......

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"a sniper is the worst romancer, he never makes the first move"

Anyone can say they can be happy without things, but the real test comes when the thing you think you don't need is actually gone.

You even said yourself, Shay, that you would be sad if an attractive woman never wanted you again.

That's not being happy or whole in yourself.

I'm not claiming that I FULLY understand this concept or anything, but things have happened in the past 2-3 weeks that don't normally happen to me. And it's because of what I'm speaking about. Doing NG and continuing my needy mindset did nothing except frustrate me. Focusing on truly just becoming grounded in your own reality is what really matters. Unwavering in the face of external stimuli, no matter how good or bad.

If it helps, I know of another dude back on the David D forums who was already pretty good with women (I say pretty good so you know how natural he already was). But he had to run his game at 100% and he was sick of doing that. He was looking for something that would keep him grounded, and I suggested NG to him. Now he gets crazy success without even trying. He was already big on LOA, so he leaves it to the universe to give him those things. Complete trust. Basically, he didn't expect and didn't want. He knew he'll get it, so he didn't think about it.

Oh, I can see something related talking about money and women.
With money you receive bad programming since childhood:
"money don't grow in trees", "you have to work hard to get it", "you have to go to the university", "money is evil", etc.
But there are multimillionaires out there without a High School diploma (Bob Proctor), some of them work just 2 or 3 days a week...
And when you change that programming, via affirmations and/or other tools your situation changes too. For some people is easier and quicker to change.

With women too:
"You have to be nice to them", "women are angels", etc, etc. (you know some more). And again for some people is easier and quicker to change.

And we are not equal, and we don't have the same mental/spiritual level. So obviously some (like me), will have to "work" harder and/or longer to get results others reach faster/easier.

So maybe if someone uses just NG could get higher levels (who can tell for sure), but probably it takes many years. But everybody could use other tools to get the job done faster. Anyway you're programming your mind in a positive way.

Many people don't believe in LOA, because they didn't get results, perhaps some of them (without knowing it) were about to get it, but suddenly they quit.

I believe in LOA, because I saw with my own eyes my dad's case, but that's another story.

Yeah but there has to be a point where you don't have to do that shit anymore, can you imagine how tiresome it would be to follow the same 'woowoo' routine everyday? I did all sorts of shit for months only to end up even more frustrated and confused.

Whatever mindset you're trying to instill at some point has to become automatic, to the point where you can stop the rituals and not fall back, if you have to do them everyday for the rest of your life how much have you really grown?.

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"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."

cuz is fun,natural grounding is not a torture

This journey for me has been nothing less than torture, but at least I'll finally be getting my dues in the summer, maybe sooner.

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"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."

Things that are worth anything are never easy to attain. I wasn't born with my insight...I am the product of hurt, betrayal, dishonesty, heartache and heartbreak, patience, perseverance and hardiness and I lost a lot of blood, sweat and tears as well (not to mention a nervous breakdown or two ). The fiery Phoenix that ermerged from the carcass that was formerly somewhat of a sucker for women and their charms is the end product of YEARS of unlearning what society had been force feeding me since birth.

The path less traveled is not a easy one nor is it a quick fix...it is a total life changing experience...understand this going forward, all of you whom this applies...

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EVERYTHING in life is conditional...EVERYTHING.

Pimposophy Revisited is now finally available on Amazon in all territories!

Yah, I would totally agree with this.

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.