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 Post subject: no father
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:47 pm 
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fufe said that having no father is better than a symp father, he is rigth

during years i wandered how people can be happy living the way they live, they have a father they are content in the matrix

my fathers were superheroes antiheores rockstars psycopaths villains and 2 members of this forum. i knew my real father but he is a ghost and now he is married with a dominatrix(metaforically), he left a hole in my body i feel it

i was allways ashame in front of people that live a secure life, the rols have changed and i found no reason to fear, even the tough guys don't bother me.

there is no spoon regarding the relationship with other men, and if they see that you are not afraid of women they will love you they want to be you. they want a real father.


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 Post subject: Re: no father
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:53 pm 
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You are right.. But now I see one possible problem when you have no father..

When you haven't got a male figure in your home, you may start modelling female figure/s..

That's what happened to me basically when I was little kid. I believe that my mothetr wish to have a daughter contributed to this too. I remember when I was like 6 or something, I felt bad because my body started looking boyish (if that's understandable, duh). I believe this was the reason why I all my friends in primary school were girls, until my puberty basically. From 14 I started searching male models (fathers), from 17 onwards I started becoming masculine, finally... My biggest role model so far has been Michael Jordan probably


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 Post subject: Re: no father
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:18 pm 
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My biggest male role model was the military...that DEFINITELY gave me the masculine edge I lacked...and a whole lot of worldly perspective to go with it. :ugeek:

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 Post subject: Re: no father
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:31 pm 
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it's funny because in the military and since I was a fighter I thought I would find a lot of alpha male figures- but I didn't. The real alpha males I found are on this forum and when I did that security course - but the security course was only one week...

I can look for alpha male friends but between school, job and my hobbies- I don't have time to start looking for new friends and hang out with them on a regular basis.

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Sometimes it's a little better to travel than to arrive” \ Robert M. Pirsig


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 Post subject: Re: no father
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:02 pm 
There is no way in this world that having a symp. father is worse than no father. Let's look at this objectively and not tainted with pimp thought.

Everyone has something to teach you in life. Chances are the guy that busted the nut in your mother knew what he was doing to a certain extent. Plus, every person in this world learns bad habits so a symp. or pimp father are exactly the same. Matter of fact you could have pimp father that's great with women, has great values, and is an all around good guy; however, if he doesn't doesn't spend time with you then you'll be hurt.

When you're age 3-10 is really when you learn from role models. The older you get the less you can genuinely learn mannerisms and sociospatial habits. At ages 3-10 I'm sure you're more concerned with your father playing with you and having him watch you do shit. That's all I wanted.

The only thing worse than not having a father is having a father who leaves when you're young and doesn't stay in contact. My dad was gone by the time I turned 10, and it took me until I turned 20 to forgive him.

Edit: The kidd made a point about role models. They're not always people, and they definitely shift more to structures like the military, college, and career as you get older. Discipline, or military training, adds a certain skill. It's structural. You are drilled in ways to exercise, fight, and essentially learn. Dedication and the social scientific method are engrained into your head. The former by extreme exercise, punishment, and forcing order among the ranks. The latter is learned by the infra politics of subordinates. The only place I see people learning the politics of people skills are the locker rooms of professional athletes because of the extensive work and effort they must put it in; there is also a similarity of them both being 24/7 jobs that you must be good at.


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 Post subject: Re: no father
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:59 pm 
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I politely disagree, rkd. You may WANT a symp father around, but you definitely don't NEED one. Allow me to attempt to illustrate my point...

Sure, I bet it's nice to have your Dad around to play catch, build shit and the like...yeah, I wished mine was around for that stuff all the time. HOWEVER, the damage a symp father does SUBCONSCIOUSLY is unfathomable to most people. When we are young, we learn from learned behaviors...basically we are products of our environments. Some things we consciously absorb and imitate...other things are SUBCONSCIOUSLY absorbed. Case in point:

My son's mother's dad is a symp...BIG time...this explains her lack of respect for men in general whether she is aware of it or NOT. But I'm not gonna focus on her as it is irrelevant for this topic. Instead, I'm going to focus on her two brothers. They are both with women who run them into the ground...those broads DEFINITELY wear the pants...and they are MISERABLE. Yet, they stay...why?...because they think that's how things are. WHY?!? Because that was what they grew up with...a strong female role model running the HELL out of the weak ass male role model. That shit STICKS and becomes HARDWIRED. Because of this, I'm GLAD my dad wasn't around because I KNOW my mom was running him in CIRCLES.

It's better to have a blank slate than to have a young man's mind subconsciously polluted...and that's where I stand on the matter. :ugeek:

If this isn't a good enough argument for you, then just wait...I'm sure 'Grinus will expound upon this theory much more eloquently than I did. ;)

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EVERYTHING in life is conditional...EVERYTHING. :ugeek:


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 Post subject: Re: no father
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:38 am 
I'm going to be a little bit of a moving target because my gut tells me the military had more influence illuminating the social matrix to you and breeding good habits than the absence of your father. In a similar way regulated sports taught me a modicum of self discipline and the value of hard-work.

I do see, hear, and think your point. As for the main part of my argument, I think you're missing what I'm saying. Having a father active in your life, in your early years, builds things like self esteem--separate from women, due to the inherent nature of the male child to appease his authority figure.

My argument also does not exclude other figures from becoming a role model from the 3-10 age, and some children may choose role models other than their father due to environmental factors. Sports coaches, teachers, community leaders, after school programs, and favorite relatives are all possibilities for this switch to occur. Due to highly steroided cows in America, At 11+, puberty kicks in and the male child starts to feel what it means to be masculine. So he loses some of his focus on the role model he has in his life consequently will be less influenced.

This is what I'm trying to get at.


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 Post subject: Re: no father
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:02 am 
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Due to the oedipus complex, the main parent that boys want to please is their mother. The way I see it, boys don't really latch on to their Dad's on an even level to the Mom until well past the age of reason.

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 Post subject: Re: no father
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:24 am 
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The Kidd!! wrote:
Due to the oedipus complex, the main parent that boys want to please is their mother. The way I see it, boys don't really latch on to their Dad's on an even level to the Mom until well past the age of reason.
This makes sense to me, when I was young I cared much more what my mother thought than my father.

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A truly powerful Man jealously guards his most precious resources; his independence and his ability to maneuver. True power isn’t controlling others, but the degree to which you control the course of your own life and your own choices. -Rational Male


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 Post subject: Re: no father
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:40 am 
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rkd, even before the moment of conception, The "Y" half that the woman demands from the Man and her "X" traits that she will pass down had been involved in a "Molding" process. our environment shapes us, believe it or not. two people who share the same Birthday , but live in different place may share astronomical similarities, but they are two different beings.

you are correct when you say everyone teaches us , but some lessons aught not to be passed on. I can easily recall all the things which was strongly "tried" to pass on/down to me. not all , just some(mose ;) )

I can honestly say I am glad the way my Dad treated me. It directed me to seek a different perspective.

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 Post subject: Re: no father
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:03 am 
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Prodigy wrote:
I can honestly say I am glad the way my Dad treated me. It directed me to seek a different perspective.
Ditto.

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"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


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 Post subject: Re: no father
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:46 pm 
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deja vu


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 Post subject: Re: no father
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:23 pm 
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Wait actually I take that back, I thought you said you weren't glad the way your dad treated you lol.

But I also agree that adversity can be a blessing in disguise.

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"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


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 Post subject: Re: no father
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:48 pm 
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For some reason I feel rant's reply..

I have a real sense of deja vu here..

[edit]
Ok, after some reading and searching:

Male Initiation, Rant Casey Style : http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopi ... 8001#p8001

Needyness - invented or at least propagated by the matrix? : http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopi ... 049#p13049

Male seeds : http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopi ... 797#p11797

A New Perspective : http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopi ... 340#p11340

-

small question\ woman's nature : http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopi ... 9137#p9137
(female but applies equally, if you flip it round)

noticing the patterns of how women are pimping : http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopi ... 301#p12301

Situation : http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopi ... 2911#p2911

-

Some of the posts are about women, consider this, your mother is a woman, I know - shocking isn't it.
So all those things we talk about with women, she has been exposed to, and therefore she is exposing you to.

Without a strong male around to give her guidance and direction, those traits will express themselves more.
With a weak male around, they will express themselves a lot, as she runs all over him, while you get trained to think it is normal.

This is one reason I keep saying to look at both sides of the equation.

In some sense, if you did not have a father around, or a weak one, learning more about women will help you more than learning about men, as it will open your eyes as to why some parts of you are how they are.
Only then will you be truly ready to embrace your 'man' side, once you have cleared the outer layer of mud from the diamond, ready them to remove the next layer.

--

I also agree on a gut level with most of what Kidd wrote, especially about the subconscious effect of having a symp father around in the picture, it is training you with an example right in front of you.

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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 Post subject: Re: no father
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:53 am 
My father was as and is definitely an alpha male. He ran shit. I get the points made in the earlier posts.

When my father was falling out with my mom, he was still allowed to stay around even when she bought a new house. He lived in the basement for six months, and he was still fucking her every now and again. He only stayed for that long because my sister and I were asking him to stay.

Here's the other half of the coin. After he left I started getting more stressed out. I only had my mom to look up to me. I developed a fear of spiders and reptiles. I wasn't scared of shit when he was around.

My mom stopped making breakfast, lunch, and dinner after he left. Before he had her cooking three hots plus snacks and dessert. We started having to do housework. He had her cleaning in the house every weekend after she worked her 9-5, plus overtime, Monday through Friday.

He was the reason that my mom and sister were coming to my little league games. That stopped after he left. He had my mom buying my sister and I jewelry and clothes on a regular basis. Of course the jewelry stopped, but the clothes continued, albeit less often. We ate out at local restaurants, when he didn't have her cooking, at least three times a week. That changed to a weekly, biweekly, then less often, then once a month, and finally once in a blue moon. Around this time she had just been promoted with a 25% pay increase from what she was making.

He made her take all of us to a top end furniture dealer. He made her cash out a 20k furniture set for the whole house, customized. Let's not mention that he broke her for a big screen television and a surround sound system, which was conveniently placed in the basement where he was staying. We had ample space to place it elsewhere.

I watched him break my mom for everything she was worth. A majority of the time that he lived with us he wasn't working. He kept our mom check. She was a twice a week social drinker with him. Then she became a full on alcoholic after he left, and you know what alcoholics do. We begged her to stop drinking. She only stopped after she was reprimanded at work.

I can go on about how my father was a real pimp, and how my mom changed after he left; nevertheless, my point about having any kind of father is important. Father's provide a base for a growing child. It's important that he speaks with and sees him. Even a symp. father can give his son compliments and nurturing support. I grew up in my most impressionable years as a very bitter kid, even though I had a lot of toys and games. Like I said before losing a father, no matter what, is worse than having a symp. father. Did I mention that I lost him in my most impressionable years? The time when I would have learned how to be like him.

EDIT: I forgot to mention to mention that he made my mother take him on vacations. He had her take all of us to Disney World with all the perks and whistles you can get, TWICE. Disney world is not cheap. He had her organize and plan the first trip when we were still broke and living in the ghetto as my mom's career was just starting.

P.S.: She stills tells me fond stories of him every once in a while. I'll never forget the story about how my dad was giving autographs and signing random stuff for people because they thought he was Wesley Snipes (this happened while we were at Disney World the first time; I was too young to remember that trip). She has also never bothered to sue my father for back child support in excess of 40k even though he's been gainfully employed; she is now currently out of a job, and she needs money for a startup company that she's building up right now.


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 Post subject: Re: no father
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:05 am 
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Quote:
Did I mention that I lost him in my most impressionable years? The time when I would have learned how to be like him.
Your Dad sounds like he knew what he was doing...and you're Mom sounds like she still loves him. What was the underlying reason for the split?

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 Post subject: Re: no father
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:22 am 
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And then guys like this have to exist, because the fucking gap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYLi7nEPZG4

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 Post subject: Re: no father
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:44 pm 
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when i watch porn i get tortured or relaxed with the idea of sucking a fucking dick.


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 Post subject: Re: no father
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:04 am 
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rant wrote:
when i watch porn i get tortured or relaxed with the idea of sucking a fucking dick.
Ummm rant...no offense but...we didn't ask you all of that. :?

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EVERYTHING in life is conditional...EVERYTHING. :ugeek:


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 Post subject: Re: no father
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:11 am 
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rant wrote:
when i watch porn i get tortured or relaxed with the idea of sucking a fucking dick.
rant, I'm worried about you :?

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"a sniper is the worst romancer, he never makes the first move"
Sometimes it's a little better to travel than to arrive” \ Robert M. Pirsig


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