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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:25 pm 
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fufe wrote:
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I know when to trust my own intuition/feeling over what someone else tells me.


Even tho this yes/no kind of feeling mechanism that I have (and it seems to be right) is in it's own sense logic too.


You come here to this forum, talk to people with a vast range of experiences and you learn more about yourself. When someone offers you a perspective you don't blindly follow it, you take it to the lab and form your own conclusions, you can makeup your own mind whether it agrees with you or not.

Going to a shrink is not about looking to someone else as a crutch to rewire your brain, ultimately you do the hard work yourself, you can only be shown the path, you're the one that has to walk through it and deal with whatever you find when you get there.

It's not an end-all-be-all solution, as you know by now there is none.

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"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:22 am 
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No need to defend this. Hopefully this silliness can stop and you can get back to discussing what actually matters which is the inner progress you are making and what is coming up.

Who cares whose logic or intuition or past experiences do not approve or agree with whatever you did that is *actually getting results.* Haha, as though that somehow invalidates them. Next time just lie and say "I sat down and did it all by myself." Then watch all the kudos and approval you get- so you can experience first hand how meaningless it actually is and that others' opinions mean jack shit about any of this.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:51 pm 
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Alchemist wrote:

You come here to this forum, talk to people with a vast range of experiences and you learn more about yourself. When someone offers you a perspective you don't blindly follow it, you take it to the lab and form your own conclusions, you can makeup your own mind whether it agrees with you or not.

Going to a shrink is not about looking to someone else as a crutch to rewire your brain, ultimately you do the hard work yourself, you can only be shown the path, you're the one that has to walk through it and deal with whatever you find when you get there.

It's not an end-all-be-all solution, as you know by now there is none.


I actually agree that it can be probably used as a tool to help the work done - most improtantly get view from other perspective


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:22 pm 
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It helped for the few sessions I had, I was getting close but it goes deeper, it always does.

I still haven't found a release from the anger, even intense physical activity doesn't help, it just burns me out and uproots emotional pain.

I just have to accept that the anger and the pain will always be there and yield to it when it comes up.

I'm tired of the journey to get to the bottom of whatever the hell this is.

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"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:59 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:41 pm 
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Alchemist wrote:
I just have to accept that the anger and the pain will always be there and yield to it when it comes up.


It doesn't have to be there always you can let it go. You know how much pain I had dropped in my life?
I speak from experience when I say you can let it go...

It's just resistance holding you back

If you keep it - it will keep hurting you dude

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:31 pm 
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Sniper wrote:
Alchemist wrote:
I just have to accept that the anger and the pain will always be there and yield to it when it comes up.


It doesn't have to be there always you can let it go. You know how much pain I had dropped in my life?
I speak from experience when I say you can let it go...

It's just resistance holding you back

If you keep it - it will keep hurting you dude


Yeah, you can definitely let it go so it's not there anymore


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 9:31 pm 
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Re-reading this topic has made me realize that the reason I came back to this forum was to re-read this topic. It's helped me a lot. Thanks. This is what I got out of it.

I think that the first and second half are linked. I think that seeing a psychiatrist, in so far as it is a ritual for your betterment is something good. At the same time, I don't believe that there is anything that you can get from a psychiatrist that can't be obtained from simply talking to a woman, or even merely being in the same room as one. It doesn't have to be a perfect one or even one you find particularly attractive. We have a tendency to project our emotions onto others and the more imperfections we see ourselves the more we see in others. When we play cat and mouse with ourselves others play that with us. Women are natural born experts at reflecting our emotions back at us. Explore the women explore the emotions.


Alchemist wrote:
I have emotions I can't access by myself and I've spent a long time trying


Alchemist wrote:
To have to negotiate, to have to spend energy I'd rather use on things that matter, to have to put up with games of cat n mouse instead of real, open and honest communication which is in short supply due to social norms and traditional values or whatever, they can play those games with other guys, I don't give a shit anymore.


I'd be interested to know how things have developed.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:42 pm 
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I've started reading this again after being directed to it.

Where I'm at now, having come out of an on/off relationship, I was in pain so I decided to think outside of my own box, to not be bitter, I've done introspection and done something creative every morning without fail. I know how much it will hold me back and consume me if I let it.

I'm hanging out with my female friends more and getting to know them I'm discovering we're on the same vibe in a lot of ways. I have the awareness that if circumstances were ideal I know things would go down.

I don't care about the ex anymore, I gave her way too much of my energy and time. Now that I have it to myself I feel better and I find myself being more vocal and blunt with people.

I feel more grounded since I shifted my perspective and the way I react to something that didn't work out. It goes back to taking stock of what's important. I want to be alone, I don't give a shit about connecting with someone, incidentally I'm becoming better friends with the girls I'm hanging out with. If you compare how I am now to how I was 10 years ago it's lightyears ahead but to me right now it doesn't feel extraordinary. It feels like a natural progression, one that will ultimately solidify my mindset.

I know my worth and the level of bullshit I'm willing to put up with, which is none.

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"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:02 am 
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@Alchemist

"I don't give a shit about connecting with someone" ...is that really the truth?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 2:39 am 
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TheDude wrote:
"I don't give a shit about connecting with someone" ...is that really the truth?


I don't care to get into that situation again because I know how it will end.

Vulnerability is a trap and grants them access to mess with you internally, that door has to remain closed indefinitely.

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"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 5:23 am 
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Alchemist wrote:
I don't care to get into that situation again

Did you care to the last time it happened? no one wants to get into a situation like that.
Saying you don't want it has nothing to do with how you all of a sudden end up in it without realizing it got there. Address what's going on that is looking for resolution in these types of situations.

Quote:
I know how it will end.


a) No you don't
b) Any of these dynamics involve two people. If YOU are a different person the next time, the outcome will be different.

Quote:
Vulnerability is a trap and grants them access to mess with you internally


a) There is an entire universe of middle ground between "i'm just going to be totally vulnerable with no discernment" and "ice cold"

b) If you are not interacting from an emotionally charged place, you are perfectly capable of discerning whom it is wise to have more than just surface level connections with. This goes for areas other than just romantic/sexual.

c) Not everyone is interested in 'messing with' someone there is a connection with. If that doesn't sound even plausible to you, then you will not be able to see it even when it is there.

Quote:
that door has to remain closed indefinitely.


a) It can't.
b) If it could, it wouldn't accomplish anything of value.
c) The very reasons it can't are the reasons attempting to do it by force will leak out into other behaviors.

I recommend you take a moment to chill out, and observe that these types of reactions are just the other side of one larger pattern.
These "I'll cut it off the moment a girl talks about a relationship" -- "i'll never be open" -- "i'm going to get a vasectomy"
These are reactionary responses that like a rubber band will eventually snap into the other direction, then some shit will happen, then this time for sure I will NEVER EVEN TALK TO A GIRL AGAIN, etc.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:26 am 
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Yes, very reactionary. Alchemist, has resisting things brought you the desired outcome before?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:38 am 
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"You" can't know it shouldn't be happening

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 8:39 pm 
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TheDude wrote:
Yes, very reactionary. Alchemist, has resisting things brought you the desired outcome before?


There are valid reasons to him feeling that way

Connecting simply means being curious about what is going on in/about
the other person and in/about yourself, without clinging to outcomes.
Why, it's simply interesting.

It's not your job to decide the closeness or distance of the relationship:
it's your job to be a real person in it.

(Should I be ashamed of any aspect of myself that is true?)

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:13 pm 
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Flow83 wrote:
Did you care to the last time it happened? no one wants to get into a situation like that.
Saying you don't want it has nothing to do with how you all of a sudden end up in it without realizing it got there. Address what's going on that is looking for resolution in these types of situations.


I got into these situations because I wanted to give this connection a chance, I didn't want to be bitter so I opened my mind to it. I thought if I went into this I would be moving on from the past and healing, only to end up in the same situation again.

Flow83 wrote:
a) No you don't
b) Any of these dynamics involve two people. If YOU are a different person the next time, the outcome will be different.


It's simple maths to me, the result has been the same every time. I will be very different moving forward, less nice, more ice.

Flow83 wrote:
a) There is an entire universe of middle ground between "i'm just going to be totally vulnerable with no discernment" and "ice cold"


I know it's not black and white but in my experience any amount of vulnerability has given them that much to mess with, I can't really afford to show any at all. It's like any amount that I show, I've already fucked up.

Flow83 wrote:
b) If you are not interacting from an emotionally charged place, you are perfectly capable of discerning whom it is wise to have more than just surface level connections with. This goes for areas other than just romantic/sexual.


I've concluded it's not wise to have anything above surface level connections with any romantic/sexual partner moving forward, going beyond that is what's gotten me into the same situation. I know how this applies to other situations and I'm fine on those, it's just this area that needs refinement.

Flow83 wrote:
c) Not everyone is interested in 'messing with' someone there is a connection with. If that doesn't sound even plausible to you, then you will not be able to see it even when it is there.


It doesn't sound plausible at all because I've been messed with every single time so far. You know what happens right before that? I think 'oh she won't do that, she's cool, she's a good person' etc. then I let my guard down and bam, like clockwork they fuck me over.

Flow83 wrote:
a) It can't.
b) If it could, it wouldn't accomplish anything of value.
c) The very reasons it can't are the reasons attempting to do it by force will leak out into other behaviors.


Keeping that door closed is a preventative measure so they wouldn't accomplish what they would set out to do if I did let them in.

Flow83 wrote:
I recommend you take a moment to chill out, and observe that these types of reactions are just the other side of one larger pattern.
These "I'll cut it off the moment a girl talks about a relationship" -- "i'll never be open" -- "i'm going to get a vasectomy"
These are reactionary responses that like a rubber band will eventually snap into the other direction, then some shit will happen, then this time for sure I will NEVER EVEN TALK TO A GIRL AGAIN, etc.


I can still talk to them etc., I just can't let them in. Why in the hell would I want to put myself in that situation again? There's not one woman now who can convince me she's different, I've learned my lesson.

When I staunchly refused to get into a relationship with my ex, she was encouraging me to open my mind and not let past experiences dictate my attitude towards relationships, then I did and guess what? she goes and does the same shit then other ones did and now I'm here again. You see this is why I can't get close anymore, it's going to happen every time, it's happened enough times.

This is why moving forward my terms will be iron clad and there is no room for negotiation. If they don't like it they can fuck off.

_________________
"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:33 pm 
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None of this is an argument for getting into serious relationships anytime soon or ever for that matter, nor is it about behaving any particular way or believing in anything.

It's just about holding a reactionary position, which is unsustainable. The irony about giving yourself more space is that it's actually much easier to NOT get into situations, let your emotions pull you, and it's a more peaceful way to live. It also allows you to experience all sorts of healthy connection with women while maintaining 100% clarity where your boundaries are, including zero chance of relationship. There just isn't any special energy, resistance or identity behind it- that's what to check in with. When it's not charged it just feels like any other choice you make because it fits your lifestyle.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:55 pm 
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Alchemist wrote:
I'm hanging out with my female friends more and getting to know them I'm discovering we're on the same vibe in a lot of ways. I have the awareness that if circumstances were ideal I know things would go down.


Alchemist wrote:
You're getting emotionally invested, check yourself real quick son.
(From foofatrons getting lost post)

This is exactly what i`m talking when i say hang out with woman.

Alchemist wrote:
I've decided to get a vasectomy soon as I save up for it,


Woman have been twisting your bollocks up again and again. And now your going to do it for them? And your going to pay for it?

I've been reading these posts and i`m finding it difficult to keep track on what your next course of action will be. The posts seem erratic and conflicted to say the least. Some of them outright contradict themselves. And we are just talking about words here. I can`t imagine how conflicted you must seem to a woman in person. You are drunk on puss puss. We don`t want you getting taken advantage of by woman. But if a woman was as drunk on dick as you are on pussy what do you think would happen to her? The primary difference between woman and men in this day and age is that in many respects woman have it so much easier for them then men so stop making it easy for them.

If you fuck girls without a connection then you are the looser because you have sold out on your humanity. The degree to which you go into meeting and hanging out with girls now WITH SEXUAL INTENTIONS is the degree to which you are the looser in the interaction.

Alchemist wrote:
I got into these situations because I wanted to give this connection a chance, I didn't want to be bitter so I opened my mind to it. I thought if I went into this I would be moving on from the past and healing, only to end up in the same situation again.


"I wanted to give this connection a chance" whats this i see.... "if you never give her all of you then you're always going to be that bigger better thing." Are these statements compatible? Did you really try?

You don`t let yourself be emotionally vulnerable so that others treat you like a precious flower. You do it so that you realise that no matter what anyone else does its not going to kill you. Have you learnt this lesson? If so then what is the complaint? What is the expectation that you are attaching to it?

Alchemist wrote:
I still haven't found a release from the anger,
Stop generating it. Stop cultivating it. Stop trying to release it. Stop using others to poke it. Stop setting yourself up in situations that seem suspiciously like there designed to generate it. And in time it will fade away


P.S If your always growing then you will always be that bigger better thing.

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We go away to find home, we make acquaintances to understand friends, we converse in order to enrich our conversation with ourselves. - Michael Oakeshott


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:47 pm 
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BTW brilliant posts above from Jared!

Relationships also grow out of a natural compatibility and an enjoyment of being around each other, sometimes to my own surprise. An organic thing because it continues to be more positive as it develops, which by the way, you can put the breaks on at any time should it start going another direction.

The idea of someone 'trying to convince you' to get into one, and then you acquiescing in order to 'give it a shot to see if it will be different' or similar-- well, there is plenty of reasons to never do something like THAT again. But to extrapolate that this is the way it works in general with women is way off base. That's red flag city, and the equivalent of suggesting that all business relationships will be a disaster and you should never be open to them, because the shifty used car salesman who pushed his MLM on you ended up being a lose deal.

You can 'learn' from such situations that all women are x, or you can learn where the blindspots were and where we reacted contrary to an intuition that knew better.

Your gut only knows something is off about a situation with a woman because it inherently also knows what is right about one.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:45 am 
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Flow83 wrote:
You can 'learn' from such situations that all women are x, or you can learn where the blindspots were and where we reacted contrary to an intuition that knew better.

Your gut only knows something is off about a situation with a woman because it inherently also knows what is right about one.


I didn't have a gut reaction to the last one which is part of the reason why I fell for her bullshit and they've all been the same so far, I let my guard down.

My intuition knew better than to trust them but I disregarded that and went by my emotions and fucked up.

Flow83 wrote:
The idea of someone 'trying to convince you' to get into one, and then you acquiescing in order to 'give it a shot to see if it will be different' or similar-- well, there is plenty of reasons to never do something like THAT again. But to extrapolate that this is the way it works in general with women is way off base. That's red flag city, and the equivalent of suggesting that all business relationships will be a disaster and you should never be open to them, because the shifty used car salesman who pushed his MLM on you ended up being a lose deal.


That's all I've experienced, hard to believe in a good thing when you've only had shit. I keep getting people telling me to open my mind to new experiences and shit and you could meet a good woman but this is how I get fucked in the first place.

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"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


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