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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:13 am 
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As you wish then. Your position is firm, and because you feel that right now firmness of holding positions is the most important thing and what your weakness was, then I see little reason to look for openings here. Hold it and enjoy it.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:11 am 
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It's easy to forget that:

Quote:
"What the other person is, that is exactly what you get."


Women are the relationship side. It is women who want the next level.
All you do is set the higher standard if you decide the two of you can go there.
If she cannot fill that larger role in your life, then you demote her in the ranks.
If she fails to fill that role, why you even upset?

8-) eaze

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:59 am 
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Jared wrote:
If she fails to fill that role, why you even upset?


Cuz she wasted my time and I hate wasting my time.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:02 am 
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Alchemist wrote:
Jared wrote:
If she fails to fill that role, why you even upset?


Cuz she wasted my time and I hate wasting my time.


Lessons learned though

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:04 am 
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Alchemist wrote:
Cuz she wasted my time and I hate wasting my time.

this is one of those sentences that contradict themselves.

You wasted your time. It`s up to you to learn from it. Its up to you to grow.

Your a human. Which is a member of the animal kingdom. Which is a member of the set of all living creatures. Growth IS life. If your not growing then your not living. If you are then you have nothing to complain about. If you stop complaining then growth becomes more rapid.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:15 am 
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People complain and lash out at others when they realise that they cannot live in a watery womb world. Most men chase puss because they want to crawl back up into the womb. 

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:24 am 
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Growth is painful. Can you imagine how much a seed has to struggle through the soil to grow (and soil is a thing that is good for it).
Growth is painful. It is to be expected.

From a website: http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/platoscave.html

Plato
Book VII of The Republic

The Allegory of the Cave

Here's a little story from Plato's most famous book, The Republic. Socrates is talking to a young follower of his named Glaucon, and is telling him this fable to illustrate what it's like to be a philosopher -- a lover of wisdom: Most people, including ourselves, live in a world of relative ignorance. We are even comfortable with that ignorance, because it is all we know. When we first start facing truth, the process may be frightening, and many people run back to their old lives. But if you continue to seek truth, you will eventually be able to handle it better. In fact, you want more! It's true that many people around you now may think you are weird or even a danger to society, but you don't care. Once you've tasted the truth, you won't ever want to go back to being ignorant!

[Socrates is speaking with Glaucon]

[Socrates:] And now, I said, let me show in a figure how far our nature is enlightened or unenlightened: --Behold! human beings living in a underground den, which has a mouth open towards the light and reaching all along the den; here they have been from their childhood, and have their legs and necks chained so that they cannot move, and can only see before them, being prevented by the chains from turning round their heads. Above and behind them a fire is blazing at a distance, and between the fire and the prisoners there is a raised way; and you will see, if you look, a low wall built along the way, like the screen which marionette players have in front of them, over which they show the puppets.

[Glaucon:] I see.



And do you see, I said, men passing along the wall carrying all sorts of vessels, and statues and figures of animals made of wood and stone and various materials, which appear over the wall? Some of them are talking, others silent.

You have shown me a strange image, and they are strange prisoners.

Like ourselves, I replied; and they see only their own shadows, or the shadows of one another, which the fire throws on the opposite wall of the cave?

True, he said; how could they see anything but the shadows if they were never allowed to move their heads?

And of the objects which are being carried in like manner they would only see the shadows?

Yes, he said.

And if they were able to converse with one another, would they not suppose that they were naming what was actually before them?

Very true.

And suppose further that the prison had an echo which came from the other side, would they not be sure to fancy when one of the passers-by spoke that the voice which they heard came from the passing shadow?

No question, he replied.

To them, I said, the truth would be literally nothing but the shadows of the images.

That is certain.

And now look again, and see what will naturally follow if the prisoners are released and disabused of their error. At first, when any of them is liberated and compelled suddenly to stand up and turn his neck round and walk and look towards the light, he will suffer sharp pains; the glare will distress him, and he will be unable to see the realities of which in his former state he had seen the shadows; and then conceive some one saying to him, that what he saw before was an illusion, but that now, when he is approaching nearer to being and his eye is turned towards more real existence, he has a clearer vision, -what will be his reply? And you may further imagine that his instructor is pointing to the objects as they pass and requiring him to name them, -- will he not be perplexed? Will he not fancy that the shadows which he formerly saw are truer than the objects which are now shown to him?

Far truer.

And if he is compelled to look straight at the light, will he not have a pain in his eyes which will make him turn away to take and take in the objects of vision which he can see, and which he will conceive to be in reality clearer than the things which are now being shown to him?

True, he said.

And suppose once more, that he is reluctantly dragged up a steep and rugged ascent, and held fast until he 's forced into the presence of the sun himself, is he not likely to be pained and irritated? When he approaches the light his eyes will be dazzled, and he will not be able to see anything at all of what are now called realities.

Not all in a moment, he said.

He will require to grow accustomed to the sight of the upper world. And first he will see the shadows best, next the reflections of men and other objects in the water, and then the objects themselves; then he will gaze upon the light of the moon and the stars and the spangled heaven; and he will see the sky and the stars by night better than the sun or the light of the sun by day?

Certainly.

Last of he will be able to see the sun, and not mere reflections of him in the water, but he will see him in his own proper place, and not in another; and he will contemplate him as he is.

Certainly.

He will then proceed to argue that this is he who gives the season and the years, and is the guardian of all that is in the visible world, and in a certain way the cause of all things which he and his fellows have been accustomed to behold?

Clearly, he said, he would first see the sun and then reason about him.

And when he remembered his old habitation, and the wisdom of the den and his fellow-prisoners, do you not suppose that he would felicitate himself on the change, and pity them?

Certainly, he would.

And if they were in the habit of conferring honours among themselves on those who were quickest to observe the passing shadows and to remark which of them went before, and which followed after, and which were together; and who were therefore best able to draw conclusions as to the future, do you think that he would care for such honours and glories, or envy the possessors of them? Would he not say with Homer,

Better to be the poor servant of a poor master, and to endure anything, rather than think as they do and live after their manner?
Yes, he said, I think that he would rather suffer anything than entertain these false notions and live in this miserable manner.

Imagine once more, I said, such an one coming suddenly out of the sun to be replaced in his old situation; would he not be certain to have his eyes full of darkness?

To be sure, he said.

And if there were a contest, and he had to compete in measuring the shadows with the prisoners who had never moved out of the den, while his sight was still weak, and before his eyes had become steady (and the time which would be needed to acquire this new habit of sight might be very considerable) would he not be ridiculous? Men would say of him that up he went and down he came without his eyes; and that it was better not even to think of ascending; and if any one tried to loose another and lead him up to the light, let them only catch the offender, and they would put him to death.

No question, he said.

This entire allegory, I said, you may now append, dear Glaucon, to the previous argument; the prison-house is the world of sight, the light of the fire is the sun, and you will not misapprehend me if you interpret the journey upwards to be the ascent of the soul into the intellectual world according to my poor belief, which, at your desire, I have expressed whether rightly or wrongly God knows. But, whether true or false, my opinion is that in the world of knowledge the idea of good appears last of all, and is seen only with an effort; and, when seen, is also inferred to be the universal author of all things beautiful and right, parent of light and of the lord of light in this visible world, and the immediate source of reason and truth in the intellectual; and that this is the power upon which he who would act rationally, either in public or private life must have his eye fixed.

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We go away to find home, we make acquaintances to understand friends, we converse in order to enrich our conversation with ourselves. - Michael Oakeshott


Last edited by Pindar on Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:25 am 
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Pleasure and pain
In chapter 3, Aristotle argues that doing things well or poorly involves pleasure and pain, and the pleasure or pain that is associated with any given activity is a sign of how developed one's skills are.

For instance, if I stand up to a danger and delight in that, I am courageous, but if I stand up to that danger and it pains me to do so, then I am a coward. The idea here seems to be this: when you delight in doing the right thing, you have developed your skills fairly well, but if it still pains you to do the right thing, then you need to keep working at it.

This is a subtle point. Aristotle is not saying that we should decide which activities are good and which are bad based on whether they bring pleasure or pain. Now, sex (for instance) is always pleasurable, while doing the right thing often involves pain. Aristotle openly admits that we often do the wrong thing precisely because it is pleasurable, and we don't do the right thing because it might be painful.

But that doesn't mean (according to Aristotle) that we should always indulge in sex, or always avoid doing the right thing. On the contrary, thinks Aristotle, we should avoid excesses and do the right thing, even if it is not as pleasurable as indulging.

But Aristotle's point, I think, is that when we have developed our skills well enough, it will, in the end, bring us pleasure to exercise those skills correctly. Conversely, if our skills are underdeveloped, it may be painful to exercise them correctly. So the enjoyment we get from exercising our skills correctly is a sign of how developed they are. When we delight in the proper exercise of our skills, we know that our skills are reaching a high degree of development.

This is why I said earlier that developing skills to do the right thing involves emotional training. Doing the right thing is not simply doing the right thing but feeling something different. No, as Aristotle sees it, we need to bring our emotional responses in line with the right thing to do. So we should delight in the right thing to do, not feel conflicted about it.

Aristotle also makes the point that training from childhood is important, for otherwise, he seems to think, we would always just indulge in the pleasurable (like sex) and avoid the painful (like abstaining). We need, he says, to be trained from a very young age to delight in doing the right thing.

So, says Aristotle, pleasure and pain accompany all activities, but we need to be careful about following or avoiding the pleasurable or painful. It is easy to pursue the pleasurable, but this may be wrong. On the other hand, once we have developed our skills sufficiently, doing the right thing becomes pleasurable indeed.

(from someones blog I found for this) http://jtpaasch.blogspot.co.uk/2010/06/ ... -pain.html

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:30 am 
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I have learned from it.

Never trust a woman and the bullshit that comes out of her mouth because if you fall for her traps and get emotionally invested you will be fucked.

If they want a relationship, tell them to fuck off.

Jared wrote:
It's easy to forget that:

Quote:
"What the other person is, that is exactly what you get."



It's true I got exactly what I signed up for, past experience should have taught me better but I know better now.

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"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:39 am 
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Well ok Alchemist. You keep praying on the emotionally vulnerable. Its not as if it will effect the lives of their future children or anything. You keep on spreading the poison around. If you were really sick of it you wouldn`t want any more.

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We go away to find home, we make acquaintances to understand friends, we converse in order to enrich our conversation with ourselves. - Michael Oakeshott


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:43 am 
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The last two sentences (Finish how you start)

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=241#p1478

The non-negotiable part

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:43 am 
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Pindar wrote:
Well ok Alchemist. You keep praying on the emotionally vulnerable. Its not as if it will effect the lives of their future children or anything. You keep on spreading the poison around. If you were really sick of it you wouldn`t want any more.


What are you talking about? they prey on me, I'm the one who's vulnerable and they take advantage of that. They don't have the capacity for empathy.

I don't give a fuck about their kids, glad they won't be mine.

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"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


Last edited by Alchemist on Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:49 am 
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Jared wrote:
The last two sentences (Finish how you start)

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=241#p1478

The non-negotiable part


Yeah I know that's where I fucked up. I got weak and trusted in a good thing, believed in it.

"The mind makes it real".

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"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:57 am 
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Flow83 wrote:
As you wish then. Your position is firm, and because you feel that right now firmness of holding positions is the most important thing and what your weakness was, then I see little reason to look for openings here. Hold it and enjoy it.


I am taking what you're saying into consideration, I'm in a dark mood and it's the collective shit from all the ones in the past including this one coming to the surface.

Shit makes me angry dude.

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"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:18 am 
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Alchemist wrote:
Pindar wrote:
Well ok Alchemist. You keep praying on the emotionally vulnerable. Its not as if it will effect the lives of their future children or anything. You keep on spreading the poison around. If you were really sick of it you wouldn`t want any more.


What are you talking about? they prey on me, I'm the one who's vulnerable and they take advantage of that. They don't have the capacity for empathy.

I don't give a fuck about their kids, glad they won't be mine.


BECAUSE YOU SAID THAT ONLY FUCKED UP GIRLS GET WITH YOU.

IT IS APPARENT THAT YOU CHOOSE THIS. AND ARE CONTINUING TO DO SO.

Jared wrote:
The last two sentences (Finish how you start)

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=241#p1478

The non-negotiable part


Jared, he cant tell himself that that hes Mr High standards, Mr My-way-or-the-high-way, Mr Non-negotiable, if hes actively choosing fucked up girls. He`s never had any standards to begin with. If he choose better women they wouldn`t put up with this whiny nonsense.

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We go away to find home, we make acquaintances to understand friends, we converse in order to enrich our conversation with ourselves. - Michael Oakeshott


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:21 am 
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True, Pindar

When you know who you are and what you are,
you are uncontrollable

2min27sec

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD_SnKOhgIs

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:43 am 
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Pindar wrote:
Jared, he cant tell himself that that hes Mr High standards, Mr My-way-or-the-high-way, Mr Non-negotiable, if hes actively choosing fucked up girls. He`s never had any standards to begin with. If he choose better women they wouldn`t put up with this whiny nonsense.


They're all fucked up. 'Better' women is a lie sold by Disney and romantic films.

I keep this shit to myself or share in this forum, they don't get any of my baggage so they'd have nothing to 'put up with'.

Pindar wrote:

BECAUSE YOU SAID THAT ONLY FUCKED UP GIRLS GET WITH YOU.

IT IS APPARENT THAT YOU CHOOSE THIS. AND ARE CONTINUING TO DO SO.


My last mistake was with her, I won't repeat it. I know what to expect at the other end so I just have to remain vigilant and not let my guard down, then they won't fuck me over.

My friends were also telling me last night about this nebulous concept of good women, where are they?

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"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:03 am 
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I'm gonna take some time off to chill out, sorry guys, I'm in a dark place.

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"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:14 am 
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Alchemist wrote:
I'm gonna take some time off to chill out, sorry guys, I'm in a dark place.


No need to apologize for that man.

We come and go as we please. 8-)

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:06 pm 
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Pindar wrote:
If you fuck girls without a connection then you are the looser because you have sold out on your humanity. The degree to which you go into meeting and hanging out with girls now WITH SEXUAL INTENTIONS is the degree to which you are the looser in the interaction.


I'm definitely the loser if I just want to get in their pants, no disputing that. I just need to sever the connection when it gets to a certain point.

Pindar wrote:
"I wanted to give this connection a chance" whats this i see.... "if you never give her all of you then you're always going to be that bigger better thing." Are these statements compatible? Did you really try?


Yes, when I decided to get into a relationship I opened my mind to it instead of closing myself off. I thought if I didn't I was potentially missing out on something good and having a good experience for once with a woman who is different from the ones in the past. I thought I was potentially rejecting a 'good woman'.

I was more patient and forgiving than in the relationship before her.

Pindar wrote:
You don`t let yourself be emotionally vulnerable so that others treat you like a precious flower. You do it so that you realise that no matter what anyone else does its not going to kill you. Have you learnt this lesson? If so then what is the complaint? What is the expectation that you are attaching to it?


I'm not expecting to be treated like a precious flower but not to be taken advantage of every time I decide to be vulnerable. It's a risk I'm no longer willing to take because of how shitty it feels.

Because of my experiences I associate being vulnerable with setting myself up for emotional damage.

Pindar wrote:
Alchemist wrote:
I still haven't found a release from the anger,
Stop generating it. Stop cultivating it. Stop trying to release it. Stop using others to poke it. Stop setting yourself up in situations that seem suspiciously like there designed to generate it. And in time it will fade away.


I'm not generating it, it makes itself aware at random moments. It comes up and then it's like "hey look at me", it keeps coming up because I've continuously ignored it, this is why I want to address it. It will always linger if I don't.

I can't just forget about it and pretend it's not there, it needs to be addressed.

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"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


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