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 Post subject: Narcissist for a mother
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:36 am 
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This thread is dedicated to a discussion of parents who put their own needs before the needs of their children. I feel like this discussion has to be had on this forum because I am sure there are many of you who are wrestling with certain demons and you are searching for answers. Little do you know that the root of the problem could be right under your nose.

In fact, nothing is wrong with you and you are not to blame. Your issues could have their origins in your childhood as a result of poor parenting.

First, I am going to discuss my own mother because I believe she is the quintessential narcissist. You know how I know that?

I know it because originally, I was going to make a thread where I asked you guys if you believed she was a narcissist based on a recent email conversation I had with her. The fact that I am still doubtful by now if my mother is a narcissist or not proves to me that she is because I know how damn good she is at hiding it. The fact that I still consider myself to blame for many of my family issues further proves that I grew up in a narcissistic household. I am the best overall person in my immediate family (I mean good-natured, not most competent), yet I still carry such a poor emotional self-image.

The best way to stop all of my momentum when it comes to self-improvement? Go visit mom for a weekend. I literally have to allow myself time to recover after being with her or else: my mind will be foggy, my emotions will be all mixed up, I won't be able to function normally in a social setting, and I will literally have physical aches and/or diarrhea/constipation.

With that introduction out of the way, I'm going to post the recent emails between my mother and I and let you guys decide if I am overreacting or if I am spot on in my diagnosis of my mother.

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So all of this starts with a phone call I get after working 8 hours the other day. We're talking, everything is ok at first, I'm exercising patience, not getting angry etc.

Then, she tells me she thinks I should get a night job to help pay my rent when I ask her if she can send me $200 to help with the first month's rent since I just starting working more hours once Summer started.

I blow up on her, calling her a cunt etc., because I already work from 9-5 and I am a 19 year old who just finished his first year of college studying an engineering discipline. She is a 50 year old alcoholic mother who barely does shit all day and hasn't been employed in 10 years...she is telling me I should be working harder? I simply don't respect that advice, I don't care who you are. Furthermore, my brother, we'll call him the "golden child", always had his rent and everything else paid for. Keep that in mind when my mom starts talking about her "financial troubles".

After she hangs up on me, I text her this:

Me:
Quote:
Ya fuck you and don't call me back. You expect me to work like a fucking peasant? When I'm pulling A's at the #10 engineering school in the country? Ya fucking right. Have some respect for people who can achieve more than you.
She then sends me an email, playing the victim of course.

Her:
Quote:
First I want to congratulate you on your first year at UCSB! It makes me so happy that you are working hard, doing well and getting excellent grades! I'm sooooo proud of you!!!

Your verbal abuse is not good for me or anyone else (funny because I don't verbally abuse others). It hurts me, stresses me out, and makes me more sick :- ( (she is sick because she has high blood pressure, undoubtedly due to her alcoholism)

I have alot of respect for you. I'm certain if you continue to do great in school, and stay out of trouble with the law you will achieve much more than me.

Sorry I am unable to help you out as much as you would like finacially.But I will help with what I can. I know I have giving you tons of love, raised you, fed you, tried to teach you best, put a roof over your head. I have done the best I could on my own.
Me:
Quote:
You said,

"Your verbal abuse is not good for me oranyone else. It hurts me, stresses me out, and makes me more sick.:- ("

I have tried to tell you, since I was probably 10 years old, that your drinking is abusive. You may not think so, but the type of abuse you have exerted on me for YEARS is called NEGLECT or NEGLIGENCE.

The only reason I turn to anger and abusive language to express myself is because I lived in a house for 12 years where abuse was all around me.

No doubt yours and Nathaniel's temper has rubbed off on me. I know you would like me to forget all that has happened in my childhood, but I cannot.

Sure you fulfilled all your basic duties as a mother like feeding me, housing, etc. but it's hard to appreciate that with all the bad memories I have of my family.

Furthermore, you do not listen to me when I am calm or logical. I am naturally a level-headed, logical person and the only reason I turn to anger is because that is the only thing YOU respond to.

There is no doubt in my mind that you would not have sent me this email if I had not texted you those bad things yesterday.

You can't expect me to change when I have asked you to change your ways since I was a small child, yet you have taken no steps to limit your alcohol consumption or be a better, more caring mother.

I love you mom, but frankly, you don't respect me. You have parented me as if I am the same person as you or Nathaniel, when clearly I am completely different from you guys.

Until you SHOW me the respect and love I deserve, I will never respect you.

It's not enough to just say things or tell me to do things. I listen to and respect admirable leaders and true leaders lead by example, not through empty threats and lies.
Her, a couple days later:
Quote:
You might want to suggest that you have your name on one of the utility bills and another roomate has his name on another and so one. Just so your not responsible for all. :-)
Do you guys notice how she completely disregards my email where I am expressing my feelings, in a rational, straightforward way? She has done this as long as I can remember. It is as if my opinion does not matter, as if the only thoughts and words that count are her own. This is why my anger is awakened in the next couple emails

Me:
Quote:
I'm not going to read anything you any or listen to any of your advice. You're in complete denial. Do not contact me.

Thanks.
In her mind, something MUST be wrong with ME to say those things to her. This is why she is a narcissist. No ability to look in the mirror because she is so deeply insecure. Just read...

Her:
Quote:
Wow! Did you get in trouble again? Is that why you missed work on Tuesday? You have a court date of Monday June 30th at 8:30 am department 8 Superior Court, Santa Barbara on 118 east Figueroa street any questions call MARYJANE 805 568 3476
Me: (I triple emailed her back...and to be honest, I gave her what she wanted.)
Quote:
Pretty soon, I will never talk to you again in my life, and I will be happy.
Quote:
You narcissistic piece of trash. You have ruined lives in your time on this earth but you are not going to ruin mine. I will not give you that satisfaction. A witch is what you are! A witch with an empty heart.
Quote:
When you have time, read this website http://joy2meu.com/Fear_of_Intimacy.html

If you still don't understand then you are a lost cause.

I let my emotions get ahead of me there but it really doesn't matter. Do I feel bad for saying such terrible things to my mother? Yes, all the time. I can't bring myself to not say those things, no matter how hard I try. If I treat her with respect, she treats me like trash.

With my mother, this is how it goes. I can tell that she cares about what HAPPENS to me, as if I am some sort of prized possession or something. I know this because she does worry about me. However, I can also tell that she does not genuinely care about me THE PERSON. She barely knows me, but she thinks she knows everything about me, including what is best for me. She treats me as if I am the same person as my brother, the golden child who rebelled against her, but clearly I am not my brother. My brother and her are alike, I am not like them.

That's enough venting for me, for now. I know this is an issue I will be struggling with for awhile but I am not going to let it bring me down because then I lose and she wins.

The only thing that bugs me now is that I do still need her for some things. That being said, I am becoming more self-sufficient everyday and in a few years I really won't need her at all. The sad part is that, by then, she will need me (she already needs me that's why she worries so much about me. The worrying is her worrying about her own well-being). She will need me, but I have already given her enough chances...it will be too late by then.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:07 am 
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She didn't ruin your self-development "growth needs", she just
clarified your "deficiency needs". She added to your clarity,
if you choose to see it that way.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:17 am 
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This is true, Jared. She has magnified the fact that I do in fact still need something from other people.

But how do I fill that void of unconditional motherly love if I never had it?

How do I give it to myself if I never witnessed unconditional love first hand?

It's clear now that I haven't progressed as much as I thought I did. All of a sudden I'm back to square one.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:44 am 
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Well, your self disclosure above is a good start.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:39 am 
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My mom is TEXTBOOK Narcissistic Mother Syndrome...just pure AWFUL. :?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:51 am 
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The Kidd!! wrote:
My mom is TEXTBOOK Narcissistic Mother Syndrome...just pure AWFUL. :?
You know what Kidd, you're right...it sucks when your 7, 8, or 9 years old and you have thoughts of growing up and disowning your family when you don't need them for survival. I remember having those types of thoughts through angry sobs as I asked, "God why did I have to be born to this family? Do I deserve it?"

I remember thinking "No, I don't deserve it" shaking my head and then stuffing it in the pillow and crying while silently mouthing, "it's not fair."

These emotions are still there, among others, and these are the ones I need to address and not forget the truth about the source of them.

I need to connect with my inner child, push-ups for me.

On a related note: I think some actual physical push-ups are in order for me. I need to start hitting the gym regularly to cope with this pent up anger. Even if my mom has impacted my life in a negative way, it's not necessarily her fault. There's no reason to throw her down in order to make myself feel better about my situation. It makes me feel worse, in fact. I think I would be proud of myself if I restrained those emotions and released them elsewhere. I need to live life on my own terms.

When I let my emotions get the best of me, I allow others to control my actions.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:34 am 
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JDogg wrote:
This is true, Jared. She has magnified the fact that I do in fact still need something from other people.
Do you, really?
JDogg wrote:
But how do I fill that void of unconditional motherly love if I never had it?
Does it need filling?
Is it something you are clinging to somehow?

Are you going to spend your whole life trying to fill this so called 'void'? What effect will have that have?
JDogg wrote:
How do I give it to myself if I never witnessed unconditional love first hand?
By following your gut and treating yourself in alignment with it. Somewhere along the way you will find the path.
JDogg wrote:
It's clear now that I haven't progressed as much as I thought I did. All of a sudden I'm back to square one.
Hardly.

I am sure there is a progression here, some distance is required to see that.

You now know there are signposts along the path, it is up to you to see them, or to ignore them.

http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopi ... 426#p18426
http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopi ... 818#p20818

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:45 pm 
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David R Hawkins, quote:

"Events in themselves have no power
to affect how we feel one way or another;

it's what our position about them,
it's our judgement about them,
it's how we decide to be with them,
it's our attitude,
it's our point of view.

It's the context, the overall meaning
that gives the event the emotional power
over us.


We are the creator of the meaning, and
the impact that it has on us."

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:12 pm 
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I've already disowned my mom for all intents and purposes. She doesn't make any effort to see her grandsons (my sons are the only grand kids she has) and the last time she called me was to casually (coldly) ask to borrow 3000 dollars...which I promptly refused. She truly is awful. :|

I've told her to her face on occasion...that she was a wonderful provider but a HORRIBLE mother. There is a difference between the two. :geek:

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EVERYTHING in life is conditional...EVERYTHING. :ugeek:

Pimposophy Revisited is now finally available on Amazon in all territories!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:36 pm 
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The Kidd!! wrote:
She doesn't make any effort to see her grandsons (my sons are the only grand kids she has)
This... I can't even.. :| :(


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:59 pm 
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peregrinus wrote:
JDogg wrote:
But how do I fill that void of unconditional motherly love if I never had it?
Does it need filling?
Is it something you are clinging to somehow?

Are you going to spend your whole life trying to fill this so called 'void'? What effect will have that have?
No, I am not. Grinus, you just helped me remember something extremely vital. I talked about how I have memories from when I was 9 where I would think and sob "Oh this is just not fair!". Actually, I now remember that I would feel pretty euphoric after those episodes. They would always end with me thinking "You have got to get out of this place. You have a brilliant mind and it will lead you to salvation".

My resolve would be strengthened from these fits! I would gain hope by the time I was done! That's an important lesson that I need to remember...never give up hope. <-- This just made me fully understand what it means when people say that our demons are not are enemies.

Your demon is your enemy? No. Your self is your enemy.
JDogg wrote:
How do I give it to myself if I never witnessed unconditional love first hand?
Quote:
By following your gut and treating yourself in alignment with it. Somewhere along the way you will find the path.
That's my main issue now. Somtimes, I lose sight of the path and everything I have learned.

I allow my guilt and anger (much of it directed inward) to block out my gut. I second guess myself and many times I will act in a way that is opposite to my gut. I went to jail 3 times since January (minor offences but charged twice) and I believe this was a manifestation of my repressed anger. Furthermore, instead of changing my ways and becoming more in touch with myself, I snowballed out of control. I would say I had the happiest, most enjoyable time of my life from September->February, then I went down hill from there.

Well, I'm getting back on the horse and now I know that my biggest enemy is not listening to my gut. I will no longer allow other people to control or manipulate me. I must be vigilant and trust myself - after all, I'm the only one I got.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:36 pm 
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JDogg wrote:
Grinus, you just helped me remember something extremely vital.
Oh goodie :D

_________________
In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:33 am 
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You can't go back to square one, even if it seems like you have. It is quite literally impossible, since what has been seen cannot be unseen.

You cannot regress. Repeat old patterns? Yep, but that is not regression, because you're aware of it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:15 pm 
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we all seem to gain a bit of clarity after a meaningful cry, right JDogg?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:34 pm 
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Sai wrote:
we all seem to gain a bit of clarity after a meaningful cry, right JDogg?
Absolutely. It's cathartic.

Once you let those emotions out, you're mind is free to think objectively.

I don't cry too often anymore, but when I get the urge to, I never repress it.

Also, I think there's a difference crying out of genuine grief/loss vs. crying because you feel pathetic and sorry for yourself.

The latter isn't really constructive I don't think.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:48 pm 
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JDogg wrote:
Sai wrote:
we all seem to gain a bit of clarity after a meaningful cry, right JDogg?
Absolutely. It's cathartic.

Once you let those emotions out, you're mind is free to think objectively.

I don't cry too often anymore, but when I get the urge to, I never repress it.

Also, I think there's a difference crying out of genuine grief/loss vs. crying because you feel pathetic and sorry for yourself.

The latter isn't really constructive I don't think.
THIS :ugeek:

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EVERYTHING in life is conditional...EVERYTHING. :ugeek:

Pimposophy Revisited is now finally available on Amazon in all territories!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:22 pm 
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JDogg, you'd be better off focusing on how your relationship with your mother/parents is painting your self-perception, than you would be searching for apology or trying to change her.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:35 am 
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I can tell you from first hand experience that looking for an apology or genuine remorse from your parents is a waste of time, especially when they don't see anything wrong with their actions (or lack thereof) in the past.

I realised in my own experience that I have to suck it up and move on.

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"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


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