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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:15 pm 
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ahk wrote:
The girl informed Meraki 'I'm over it'. I find this very interesting. It could of course be nothing at all, just a bare statement, or it could be laden with poignancy. This knowledge would prompt me to take actions, at the very least to find out which, and would affect my further actions a whole freaking lot, depending on the outcome I want, even to the extent of changing the outcome I want.
What kind of poignancy could it be laden with? How would you tell? What would be the actions you would take?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:05 am 
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This brings to mind a couple of incidents in real life in my past, where I'd be about to make a big reveal to some guy, and the girls would squeal at me 'Dont tell him, he cant know', very insistently.

http://therationalmale.com/2012/08/22/just-get-it/
(i recommend skipping over all the dominance stuff, and most of his advice, which is geared towards a different problem)

And anyway, I could be 100% wrong, so of what value would my answers be?

I dont necessarily believe in actions (as opposed to words) either, girls are flawed too, and they are great at acting to manipulate. Incongruency manages to slip out though, if you are open to noticing it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:58 pm 
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ahk wrote:
And anyway, I could be 100% wrong, so of what value would my answers be?
The value of another perspective :geek:
Thanks for sharing the article

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:12 pm 
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Haha this brings back memories of a certain early post about a girl on a bus, a questionable character, and another member here :D

Great OP Meraki, and interesting direction it took off in


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:41 pm 
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:lol: :mrgreen: :ugeek:

(I think my level of perception has just evolved :mrgreen: )

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:43 pm 
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ahk wrote:
This brings to mind a couple of incidents in real life in my past, where I'd be about to make a big reveal to some guy, and the girls would squeal at me 'Dont tell him, he cant know', very insistently.
This!!

Oh this has happened to me far too many times to count.

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:00 pm 
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peregrinus wrote:
ahk wrote:
This brings to mind a couple of incidents in real life in my past, where I'd be about to make a big reveal to some guy, and the girls would squeal at me 'Dont tell him, he cant know', very insistently.
This!!

Oh this has happened to me far too many times to count.
I can relate to this more and more as my professional life has progressed.

If you have to tell the guy what to do, he is not the right guy

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:55 pm 
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ahk wrote:
And anyway, I could be 100% wrong, so of what value would my answers be?
I didn't ask because I actually wanted to know the specifics of your answers. I just wanted to see what your response would be because it says something about you...

I think that whatever is going on in addition to the simple statement "I'm over it" doesn't matter. The poignancy is irrelevant to me.

You're saying I should try to look at all the clues and figure out whether she's bluffing or not, or how strong her hand is. I say - I've got a royal flush, why do I care if she's bluffing or how strong her hand is? I only care about how she bets, because the game is rigged in my favor.

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"The society gives you a map; I give you only freedom. The society gives you character, I give you only consciousness. The society teaches you to live a conformist life ... I give you an invitation to go on an adventure." - Osho


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:42 pm 
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:mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:12 am 
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ahk wrote:
:mrgreen:
Secretive one we have here, eh? Well, its been very enjoyable discussing with you ahk (and Flow too, as usual).

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"The society gives you a map; I give you only freedom. The society gives you character, I give you only consciousness. The society teaches you to live a conformist life ... I give you an invitation to go on an adventure." - Osho


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:53 am 
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Meraki wrote:
ahk wrote:
:mrgreen:
Secretive one we have here, eh? Well, its been very enjoyable discussing with you ahk (and Flow too, as usual).
Likewise. Fun one. Very different views and perspectives -- lots of not so obvious common ground too.

I think there is more interesting dirt in the idea of the game being rigged in your favor. That would mean she loses / you win.. hm - perhaps now we're also talking about perceived certainty of results vs indifference to outcome.. but maybe we save that for some other rainy (or stuck in traffic, hah) day!

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:26 am 
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Ah yeah, don't read into that analogy too much. That wasn't what I meant, so maybe poker isn't the best metaphor. Here's the options - she can win and I can win, or she can lose and I can win - its up to her.

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"The society gives you a map; I give you only freedom. The society gives you character, I give you only consciousness. The society teaches you to live a conformist life ... I give you an invitation to go on an adventure." - Osho


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:20 am 
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Meraki wrote:
Here's the options - she can win and I can win, or she can lose and I can win - its up to her.
Sounds about right to me! 8-)

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-Thoreau's Walden


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:05 am 
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Meraki wrote:
The beauty is that it does not matter to me.

She can do what she wants to. If she knows what’s good for her she’ll let go of this manufactured “drama”. I am an oak tree, she is a bird who was happily sitting on my branch, but now she’s gotten all chirpy and agitated and took off for a flight. If she comes back and lands on my branch again - fine with me. If she keeps flying to another tree somewhere else - also fine with me. That will free me up to let another bird (or birds) come sit on my branch.

My life is great either way, and its up to her to decide if she wants to keep dealing with me on my terms, or to lose me.
--------------------------------

Ok, its been a month since this went down. In reading other people's stories here on NatFree, I've always enjoyed it when there's a nice resolution about what ends up playing out, so here's an update on the situation:
Meraki wrote:
Here's the options - she can win and I can win, or she can lose and I can win - its up to her.
Well, at first she chose to lose and let me win. And win I did, with this girl: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3351 and another one. :D

Then just this weekend, things have gotten interesting again. But first, let me fill in the story.

--------------------------------

Picking up from where I left off - she texted saying "i'm over it", then she went out of town for 3 days, and when she came back, we got together that friday night. We were hanging out at a bar with a bunch of friends, but I was feeling pretty tired (crazy busy week at work), so around 10:30 I told her I just wasn't feeling staying out late and I was going to go home. I told her she could choose to stay out with everyone else or she could come back with me and either would be fine. She says she's coming back to my place.

So we're back at my place, and we start making out on the couch, but I can tell she's not that into it. I've slept with this girl maybe 30 times at this point, so I know her patterns and behaviors pretty well, and I can sense that even though she said she was over it, there's still something there.

As a result, I start pulling back a bit, and the making out kind of fizzles. When we stop kissing, she kinda sits there for a moment, and then she says, "I think I'm going to go home."

I respond with, "Ok, no problem - sleep well!"

Don't think my response was patronizing or anything either - it was genuine. There are many reasons why she could want to go sleep at home, some of which involve her being manipulative and dramatic, and other reasons which are honest - like maybe she had a stomach ache or headache or was exhausted or something like that. So, I figured, why not assume positively that she's not being manipulative?

Plus, I have two great scenarios here - either she stays and we have a good time, or she goes and I get a really good night sleep after a long crazy week.

After I say that, she gets visibly upset/angry, and says, "I don't like it when you do that - when you seem so unaffected!" And she grabs her purse and storms out. My couch is right by the door, so she literally took about 5 seconds to leave, so I didn't get a chance to say anything back, although honestly I don't think there was anything to say really.

As the door is slamming, however, I'm thinking to myself as I shake my head, "but you actually DO like it when I'm unaffected - you just think you would like it if I was more sensitive and felt hurt by your leaving, but in reality you wouldn't actually like it. What a funny predicament to be caught up in - wanting to give up something you do like but don't know it, in exchange something that you think you would like, but in reality you wouldn't…"

"Gotta give em what they need, not what they want." - Kidd

----------------------

So, next day she shows up at my house in the morning, and asks if we can chat. I say sure, I'm heading out in an hour, but I've got until then with nothing to do. She tells me that she doesn't think we should see each other anymore.

I say, "ok - thats fine. You gotta do what you've decided you gotta do." Again, I'm totally unaffected (because honestly, either scenario - continuing to see her, or not seems perfectly fine to me). But this time, her response to my unaffectedness is more along the lines of disbelief and amazement, rather than anger.

Part of me thinks that she was throwing this out as her biggest trump card shit test to see if she could get some sort of negative reaction out of me, but part of me thinks that she's probably not that strategic, conniving, and cunning. Either way, her reaction to my indifference was genuine.

"Until they have seen you walk and the way you walk, they never truly believe you will. Once you have and they have seen that, they know it." - Grinus

-----------------------

A couple weeks go by and I don't see her. I go on my two week road trip to go mountain biking (from that other thread). When I get back from my road trip, another girl (roommates with a friend of mine) starts hitting on me at a party and things appear to be moving along rather nicely with her. I'm not missing the original girl at all.

Then July 4th comes along. Original girl ends up at a big gathering of friends at a park for the afternoon. I chat with her a little bit there, and basically just pick up where I left off - being friendly, slightly flirtatious, joking around and teasing, etc. This is how I act with pretty much every single/eligible girl I know, so why would I act differently just because I already dated this one?

As the gathering is winding down, I'm heading to a big house party, and I'm going around inviting people from the park to meet me there. As I'm about to hop on my bike to leave, girl comes up and asks if she can ride with me to the house party. I say sure.

We get to the house party, grab some drinks, and sit down in the back yard. People are coming and going, there's a BBQ, lots of socializing. I get up to mingle, flirt with a couple other girls, go to the bathroom, etc. When I come back to sit down, as soon as I sit down, original girl gets up from her chair (which was 2-chairs away from mine) and comes and plops down right on my lap. Since I'm an oak tree, I let her.

She's clearly had a bit to drink, which is unusual for her and she's a total lightweight. Anyway, I more or less ignore this interesting development and keep chatting with people around me, and just act as if nothing unusual is going on.

I'm leaning back and she was basically just sitting on my leg, but then she leans in and basically lays across my chest, with her head on my shoulder kinda nuzzled up in my neck. Another interesting development. I start caressing her back with my hand.

She stays like that for a few minutes, then nuzzles even deeper into my neck and gives me a couple quick kisses there on the neck. I keep talking to her roommate who is sitting on the other side, but I am running my hand along the bare section of skin between her shorts and her shirt. She's been sitting on my lap for probably close to half an hour at this point.

Then all of the sudden, she sits up, leans over, and pukes a little bit, pretty much onto the feet of her roommate… Both her roommate and I look at each other all confused before we kinda understand exactly what's going on.

We stand her up, and she looks at me and asks, "I'm not feeling good at all. Can you take me home?" Her house is only about a block away, so I'm happy to do that. I walk her home, get her setup on her couch with a puke-bucket and a big glass of water, and she's basically passed out about 30 seconds later when I leave to go back to the party. Its only 7pm and the party is going to go till midnight, and I'm feeling great. ;-)

Next day we text back and forth a bit about how she's feeling. Once she's a bit recovered from her hangover she has to pack and leave to go out of town for 3 weeks for work, so I don't see her, and I won't see her until the end of July.

----------------------

So where it stands now is that she took a flight away from my very nice oak tree branch, and it looks like she decided she wants to come back in and perch on the branch a bit more, but she botched the landing, missed the branch I had out for her, and she crashed to the ground, and now its going to be 3 weeks before she's up flying again. What great comedy! I'm so glad I get to experience this - what fun. And you guys get to have fun hearing about it too...

So for now:
To be continued...

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"The society gives you a map; I give you only freedom. The society gives you character, I give you only consciousness. The society teaches you to live a conformist life ... I give you an invitation to go on an adventure." - Osho


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:32 am 
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Some very good observations on yourself in these posts now Meraki ;)

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:09 pm 
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peregrinus wrote:
Some very good observations on yourself in these posts now Meraki ;)
:D

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"The society gives you a map; I give you only freedom. The society gives you character, I give you only consciousness. The society teaches you to live a conformist life ... I give you an invitation to go on an adventure." - Osho


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:14 am 
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Bump.

Meraki what a great post.
I enjoyed the reference to the oak tree; I know it's been brought up before. This time though I was able to visualize the oak tree and how it relates to ourselves even more.
Meraki wrote:
So where it stands now is that she took a flight away from my very nice oak tree branch, and it looks like she decided she wants to come back in and perch on the branch a bit more, but she botched the landing, missed the branch I had out for her, and she crashed to the ground, and now its going to be 3 weeks before she's up flying again.
:lol:

I'd like to comment on the discussion between you, ahk, and flow. It was nice to see a discussion play out between level-headed men who don't let their ego run a muck over a debate and let things get personal. I learned a lot just from the discussion alone. It has served as a "role-model" for future discussions and debates I will have.

Now, onto your follow up thread.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:34 pm 
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Hey, thanks Dude. 8-) Just for convenience for others who come to this thread, here's the link to the followup:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3656

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"The society gives you a map; I give you only freedom. The society gives you character, I give you only consciousness. The society teaches you to live a conformist life ... I give you an invitation to go on an adventure." - Osho


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:44 pm 
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Meraki wrote:
I don’t suffer over getting or not getting women anymore.
Fantastic 8-)

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