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You can't give them anything!!!
http://naturalfreedom.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2358		 Page 6 of 6
Author:  Alchemist [ Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: You can't give them anything!!!
Yudansha wrote:
You get sick of your hand pay for some ass, you can tell the hooker exactly what to do and say.
You can do that with someone who will submit of their own volition without resorting to trickin'.
Author:  Yudansha [ Sun Dec 22, 2013 5:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: You can't give them anything!!!
Alchemist wrote:
Yudansha wrote:
You get sick of your hand pay for some ass, you can tell the hooker exactly what to do and say.
You can do that with someone who will submit of their own volition without resorting to trickin'.
If you have that kind of speed with a woman, sure you can ... well, there may be limitations. I guess the best tactic is to be as happy and as secure and at peace with who you are as you can, that kind of disposition is irresistible by women. Irresistible by anyone, in any aspect of life.

Now if only I could speak from experience ....
Author:  Alchemist [ Wed Dec 25, 2013 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: You can't give them anything!!!
It's not a tactic but a mindset, in my experience things happen when I don't care.
Author:  Yudansha [ Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: You can't give them anything!!!
Alchemist wrote:
It's not a tactic but a mindset, in my experience things happen when I don't care.
Yeah, I just had a conversation with someone who said, that which you let go of comes to you. Its not a literal thing, but when you are desireless, or don't care, it seems like things come to you more. I've experienced that to some degree. But no matter how free you are, your libido, mind, ego, whatever, will eventually WANT it. then what?
Author:  Sniper [ Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: You can't give them anything!!!
Yudansha wrote:
But no matter how free you are, your libido, mind, ego, whatever, will eventually WANT it. then what?
then you can view it for what it is (libido, mind, ego) and you don't need to create suffering around it.

Of course you don't need to 'not want women' (we are not monks...) you just don't rely on them or validation from them for your own personal happiness.
Author:  Dali [ Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: You can't give them anything!!!
Sniper wrote:
Yudansha wrote:
But no matter how free you are, your libido, mind, ego, whatever, will eventually WANT it. then what?
then you can view it for what it is (libido, mind, ego) and you don't need to create suffering around it.

Of course you don't need to 'not want women' (we are not monks...) you just don't rely on them or validation from them for your own personal happiness.
That you can live with, or without that.

As Flow83 said, if you can observe it, it means there's something more fundamental than that. Thus, not you, the hard part is not getting carried over by the drama of the victim, or heroic warmth for being capable of overcome it, but just plainly observe it, not taking sides and attachments never form when observation is happening.

Also.
Having clear that woman are the pleasant side effect The Kidd!! talked about. (Mindset wise)
Author:  Flow83 [ Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: You can't give them anything!!!
Nice Dali / Sniper.

Desire is not a problem. Buddha is misquoted all the time. Desire is not the cause of suffering, attachment to desire is. The more you disown qualities innate to yourself (happiness, satisfaction) and project them onto outside objects (I'll feel like a man after this happens) the more you suffer.

If you like the texture and taste of biting into an orange and want to experience it, great. Have one. You don't invest your self worth in it or project any qualities other than what it has. You see it for what it is, you're free to enjoy it or not. You don't have a cluster$#% of emotional wounds and projections around oranges like you do with women and interpersonal relationships, which are of course a more complex experience on one level. Still, your work is to move through your own BS so you can see these things for exactly what they are.

There is no shortage of men discussing this stuff ad-nauseum. Probably 10% or less do the actual work. Then, you know if you are serious if you don't stop the second you feel a bit of relief or start getting "success"

And of course, everyone here knows this but never a bad thing to repeat: Trying not to care about something you care about as a technique to get it IS as stupid and pointless as it sounds. I mean lying to yourself - not trying as in doing the actual work.
Author:  Yudansha [ Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: You can't give them anything!!!
Flow83 wrote:
Nice Dali / Sniper.



And of course, everyone here knows this but never a bad thing to repeat: Trying not to care about something you care about as a technique to get it IS as stupid and pointless as it sounds. I mean lying to yourself - not trying as in doing the actual work.
This brings up a good point. My situation exactly. God know enough server memory was spent on my topic already, but this applies. In my case the desire was/is pathological. I have been hard at work dealing with it ... emotions arise, I let them, welcome them, and let the energy out. Then more come, and more and more.

But what applies universally is when you DO care about something. Why should you not? Lying to yourself will not work. But letting yourself care about whatever it is, welcoming it inwardly, will work.
Author:  roark [ Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: You can't give them anything!!!
Nice as ever, Flow.
Yudansha wrote:
But what applies universally is when you DO care about something. Why should you not? Lying to yourself will not work. But letting yourself care about whatever it is, welcoming it inwardly, will work.
Yes. It's as if resistance increases (causes?) the suffering.

I like to treat it as:
So i'm indifferent? Great. Welcome it inwardly, and feel the freedom.
So i'm attached? Fine. Welcome it inwardly, welcome the pain, and feel the freedom.

Recently, after spending some time inwardly welcoming & accepting something that I have an aversion to, I got up to go to do something and hit my knee on a table. I guess I was still in the welcoming state, because instead of clenching I just totally let the pain in, no resistance, no clenching up. I noticed 2 things:

- The pain felt much more intense than any other time that I hit my knee previously.
- It was gone much more quickly, and more completely. On previous occasions, the worst of the pain would go away after 10 seconds or so, but some faint pain would still linger a minute or even more afterwards. This time the pain was gone after 5 seconds or thereabouts. And when it was gone, it was gone COMPLETELY.

Interesting how the whole attachment/aversion/resistance thing works.
Author:  peregrinus [ Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: You can't give them anything!!!
What you resist persists
Author:  Sniper [ Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: You can't give them anything!!!
Yudansha wrote:
But letting yourself care about whatever it is, welcoming it inwardly, will work.
And of course you need to 'stay' with 'it' as long as 'it' needs (in order for the release to take place)
you just need to stay with the energy and drop the story.

some things go away fast, other things may stay for a while but you need to let the energy do it's thing.

just make sure you focus on the energy not the story.

it's always worth giving a reminder what is 'release':


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbDCdTYTguc
Author:  The Kidd!! [ Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: You can't give them anything!!!
That's enough hand holding. :geek:

Time to give Yudansha enough space to do his push ups. 8-)
Author:  Yudansha [ Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: You can't give them anything!!!
Funny, Kidd!!

No amount of so-called hand-holding helps. Encouragement kind of helps, in a way, but the work in internal, not external. And no one can be in there with you.

I remember once, a LONG time ago, spending an evening drinking with my friends, beer, booze, and a half bottle of bubbly to cap it off. The next day I had to excuse myself from breakfast and go upstairs to lie down ... the nausea and headache were brutal. I had recently been in the conversation of letting feelings and sensations just be, to I observed the waves of nausea move through me. It was horrible, but I watched as the sick sensations transformed into 'energy.' The sensation just changed right as I watched it, I then fell asleep, and woke up feeling better.

Another good point made by Sniper, re the story. The mind wants to run the story over and over, or run fantasies to escape the pain. Addiction and escape, that's the viscous cycle at play in my mind.
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