No one NEEDS that crap!
...but a lot of gents WANT it though.
| Natural Freedom http://naturalfreedom.info/ |
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| My Letter to PUA http://naturalfreedom.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1671 |
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| Author: | The Kidd!! [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Letter to PUA |
No one NEEDS that crap! ...but a lot of gents WANT it though.
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| Author: | Sniper [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Letter to PUA |
The thing that PUA taught me was to take action, the advise I got however was shit for the most part... The few teachers that had good advise are not PUAs so they can see outside the women\PUA matrix (like David X for example..) @Kidd good thing you were never a PUA 
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| Author: | Scarf [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:57 am ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: My Letter to PUA | |
It's time to evolve. Time waits for no man. For the people who are ready put down the PUA books, and look inside.
I will quote from a movie that I will keep nameless: "People are afraid of what's inside". There might be something in what lightsleeper has said. I would say the PUA stuff is good for guys who have taken the time to really look at social interaction, even if they didn't understand it. Fortunately or unfortunately, I am no self proclaimed guru (like the Kidd). Everything I learned, I learned from the PUA community in addition to my own experiences, so this topic is a bit personal. What I am saying here is that there is no way I could know what I know now without having been involved in it. There is also a deep sense of irony involved in guys who come to forums like these and bash the community. If the community doesn't help you at all, YOU WOULD NOT BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. You would have gone somewhere else. You would have gone home. Please note that coming on a forum which discusses women and the community means that you are still part of that community. If you give your attention to something, then you are part of that something. Kidd, you may have bypassed your learning in the community, but you did not bypass the community. I first met you in the Zan Perrion forum. The same goes for one other guy, who now is a very good friend of mine. If I am not mistaken, the same goes for many other members here who were previously part of that particular forum. You talk about evolution there TheDude, it is happening. It cannot NOT happen. It is the nature of life itself. it has happened/ is happening within the community, if you actually took the time to care to look, you would see that we started from Speed Seduction to Mystery Method to Double Your Dating to the Blueprint - which is so advanced in itself that it would probably take some product to top it. Each one an improvement on the other. This evolution occurred on the basis for the desire for increased knowledge and more importantly, consistency in becoming successful with women. Whether it's personal awkwardness in social interactions, understanding female manipulation, attaining sex, attaining a long term relationship, marriage or simply peace of mind - every single desire is right and valid. If a guy wants to learn how to behave around women, where is he going to get this advice? From his dad? From his friends? From women? From Men's Health magazine? Where is this advice going to come from in a society like this? Are any of those sources good sources to learn from? Would you not agree that the PUA community is a massive step up from all of the above? Tell me something PUA basher, how do you think that a multi million dollar business industry is able to support itself with literally no mainstream advertising, no mainstream marketing, no mainstream promotion, no mainstream sales? You can't walk in to Argos or Target and buy a David Deangelo product. Tyler's name is not draped across a billboard, there is no Zan Perrion commercial on MTV either. The entire industry is self sustaining. What's more is that the entire customer base is made up of men. This is astonishing in itself since women are the biggest buying demographic of anything that is sold today. From music to food to make up, it is women who are spending money. That is why so many products go out of their way to appeal to women (such as the Nintendo Wii) as there is money to be had in the female market. The community however, relies solely on two things; new business and repeat business - all male. There is no other place for revenue to be generated. There has been a best selling book and even an American television program called: The Pick Up Artist starring Mystery himself. The ratings for this show was very high but was still cancelled. Why? Not enough female interest. In spite of all of this, almost no one in the mainstream has heard of the community or is even aware of the complexities of it's existence. Anyone who has heard of it, has dismissed it as child's play. It took me a good three months to find it. The industry is self sustaining because the desire for knowledge is so strong, you cannot stop guys from trying to get answers, particularly after going through some very nasty experiences with women. Women on the other hand have maintained their own PUA community for a long time. It is very, very advanced. You ever tried picking up a woman's magazine? It is substantially well written in comparison to men's magazines and discusses issues with men at a PUA level. It teaches women how to manipulate men better and how to 'keep control of the relationship' with hundreds of women writing in every month with their tips, tactics and experiences. This is never criticised, unlike the PUA community and products which is shot down by anyone who comes into passing knowledge about it as simply 'guys trying to get laid'. Even after purchasing my first product, I had no idea it was this massive group of guys who were asking such powerful (and very similar) questions. No one can force another person to buy a product. One can be persuaded, but never forced. If you are on the market shopping for a product it's up to you to decide if the product will do the job it says on the tin. It's up to you to research the product as far as possible before making the commitment to buying it. You cannot start buying products, then accuse the community for making you buy the products. You are supposed to be educated enough to make your own judgement. You can read, you can think for yourself. Read and think before you buy. Also, when you buy the product, take the time to actually read and listen to what's being stated in the product, this will give you a better chance of actually being able to understand the product you have purchased. One of the biggest mistakes made by PUA bashers is their assumption that since the community couldn't help their own situation, then there is no way that other people could gain anything from it. I find that there is only one group of people who bash the community and that is men who are and continue to be sexually frustrated. As frustrated as you might be, if you want to bash the community, do it somewhere else. |
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| Author: | Sniper [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Letter to PUA |
@Scarf. good post, you made some good points that I didn't think about. Although my experience with most of the community stuff was not good- there is no doubt that the community has changed a lot over the years. Sure there are still charlatans in the community but through the community I found David X, Brent, Cameron and a lot of people got to know The Kidd from Zan's forum. I guess sometimes one needs to go through trial and error in order to see what works and what doesn't until he finds his own path and way. Cause everyone is different.... I will say this though: most of the commnunity still puts women on a pedistal and I hope that's going to change. Edit: I don't think he is sexually frustrated he just feels like he was lied to by the community cause there are a lot of charlatans but now he is ready for the next stage. that's all |
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| Author: | Gonzo [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Letter to PUA |
In my opinion there are two problems with the community and PUA's: 1. PUA's still operate from within the matrix. It's like they see part of the puzzle, but they haven't connected all the dots yet... 2. These so called "gurus" are trying to sell a product. They don't even want you to see the whole picture. They don't want you to get laid. They want you to buy more products! |
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| Author: | peregrinus [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Letter to PUA |
Good post Scarf, I enjoyed reading it. |
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| Author: | Sniper [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:34 pm ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: My Letter to PUA | |
In my opinion there are two problems with the community and PUA's:
yea man, that's what I meant when I said:1. PUA's still operate from within the matrix. It's like they see part of the puzzle, but they haven't connected all the dots yet... 2. These so called "gurus" are trying to sell a product. They don't even want you to see the whole picture. They don't want you to get laid. They want you to buy more products! that there are still charlatans & most of the commnunity still puts women on a pedistal. you see the problem is that 'the truth' will not sell... most people are not yet ready to hear stuff like: most women are not good & that there are no quick fixes... (heck, even I have a difficult time sometimes and I have been here a long time already  )it may take a few more years until the mass will be able to handle it or it may never happen, time will tell.... |
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| Author: | The Kidd!! [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:27 pm ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: My Letter to PUA | |
Kidd, you may have bypassed your learning in the community, but you did not bypass the community. I first met you in the Zan Perrion forum.
Tis true...but I didn't go to learn...I came to ENLIGHTEN...big difference. ...and boy did I NOT know what I was getting myself into! The community needs me (read: my mindset)...and I *think* they are juuuuust now starting to figure that out. 
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| Author: | lightsleeper [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Letter to PUA |
Back in the day it was the "enlightened seducers" - (thanks Brother Kidd) sharing ideas/techniques with other like minded individuals - the materials were never intended to move someone with zero experience into the realm of some sort of master seducer ... Instead, the materials were intended to reaffirm what we had been doing correctly (on our own) - PLUS - open our eyes to a few alternatives others had found success with. For the first time we began to understand why certain things we did worked and how to expand on them in our OWN UNIQUE WAY - this was a good thing! Since then however, the entire system has managed to deteriorate itself to it's lowest common denominater - douchebags selling advice to virgins! 
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| Author: | Sniper [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:12 pm ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: My Letter to PUA | |
Since then however, the entire system has managed to deteriorate itself to it's lowest common denominater - douchebags selling advice to virgins!
because that's where the money is....
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| Author: | Scarf [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:14 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: My Letter to PUA | ||
Good post Scarf, I enjoyed reading it.
Thank you. 
Tis true...but I didn't go to learn...I came to ENLIGHTEN...big difference.
...and who was it that stumbled in looking for you? Yes. So the hypocrites can go home. |
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| Author: | The Kidd!! [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Letter to PUA |
For your information, Scarf...a google search of myself showed that a Zanian by the handle of Tryst10 had started a thread that specifically mentioned me and had a link to my writings...THAT is what brought me there and made me aware that there even WAS a community.  So, with a due respect, you can take your hypocrite and shove it up your ass. 
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| Author: | Sai [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Letter to PUA |
I dig your post Scarf, I never started out in the PUA community, but as long as men congregate online to discuss the art of seducing a woman, or simply how to get laid, then inadvertently one would be associated as part of said group. I think one of the reasons it is not more mainstream because men don't want it to seem as if they need to learn how to get women. they all want it to come off natural. I have seen pick up material before, but honestly, it didn't carry the taste that I was looking for ( yes, I knew the type of teaching I was looking for), it was a little too technical, didn't seem authentic. |
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| Author: | Scarf [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:37 pm ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: My Letter to PUA | |
For your information, Scarf...a google search of myself
I was taking about myself - and other guys that needed your help. You misunderstood me. |
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| Author: | The Kidd!! [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:05 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: My Letter to PUA | ||
For your information, Scarf...a google search of myself
I was taking about myself - and other guys that needed your help. You misunderstood me. 
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| Author: | Scarf [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My Letter to PUA |
Actually, it's kinda my fault. It definitely looked ambiguous. Will be more careful next time.  I just try as much as possible to not talk about myself....
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| Author: | Altair [ Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:23 am ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: My Letter to PUA | |
You talk about evolution there TheDude, it is happening. It cannot NOT happen. It is the nature of life itself. it has happened/ is happening within the community, if you actually took the time to care to look, you would see that we started from Speed Seduction to Mystery Method to Double Your Dating to the Blueprint - which is so advanced in itself that it would probably take some product to top it. Each one an improvement on the other. This evolution occurred on the basis for the desire for increased knowledge and more importantly, consistency in becoming successful with women. There is no value in the community itself, for starting a journey. The journey starts with the person who decided to look for answers, and they would have done it with or without the community, |
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| Author: | scarface [ Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:26 am ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: My Letter to PUA | |
Then I progressed even further along to your famous trend setting Tyler Durden. And my god was the young chap an innovator.
I heared he tells guys to go beasting, and then i saw this video off what beasting means and looks like in action when some dude tried it. I laughed my ass off.However, as time kept going by I was beginning to realize something that something is terribly wrong here. I began to QUESTION things; everything. Who ever made Tyler Durden a guru? Now come on guys, Lets go BEASTING!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sxd9brkTdY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5coAbmZ98s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g8gSVWts-c And so on, just watch his channel it's comedy gold. Great videos if you have some spare time and want to have a good laugh at some asian guy talking like a negro and acting like a douche. |
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| Author: | TheDude [ Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:40 am ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: My Letter to PUA | ||
Lets go BEASTING!!... it's comedy gold. I want to state that even though I talked poorly of the PUA community I haven't forgotten it was one of my 1st stepping stones to where I am today. I appreciate my experience from it, and learned a great deal from it! I am very grateful I am past it now as well. 
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| Author: | Sniper [ Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:27 am ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: My Letter to PUA | |
one last thing. I don't like the vast majority of the community and I think that the vast majority of the community does more harm than good. We might not be in agreement here Scarf, but it's Ok: we don't have to agree on everything the 'community' has helped me find The Kidd, David X and Cameron and that's awsome. I might never have found them if it was not for the community. But as far as the vast majority of the community I will quote something from '60 years of Challenge' that says a lot about how I feel: *Notice I said 'the vast majority' of the community not All of it...
The most dangerous word for a beginner who becomes interested in learning about seduction is the word community. That’s because the phrase “the seduction community” conjures up images of
There are a few people like Aaron Sleazy who spent many years at fastseduction.com, giving advicea warm and fuzzy environment where everyone involved is out solely to help each other. The seduction industry loves to invoke the word 'community' whenever it could serve their purposes- especially when anyone tries to question their shady marketing tactics and selfish motives. Somehow keeping quiet and not questioning the status quo has become synonymous with being a positive “alpha dude”. The truth is many of these guys in the seduction industry appeared out of nowhere and have never posted one single piece of advice on a public forum - well, not on a forum that wasn’t run by the company they work for anyway. Worse, many self-proclaimed gurus have never helped even one person without charging ridiculous amounts of money. This type of behavior is certainly not the defnition of a "community". I’m all for the right to make money, but let’s just be honest and call this what it really is - an industry. There is no community and helping people for free, Kidd is doing it here, Cameron has a blog with a lot of free advise. Brent does a lot of free videos in which he also gives free advise (though Brent doesn't resonate with me that much). So let's difference between 'the community' and what it has become today: an industry. an industry to take money from Men... |
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