Natural Freedom

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:16 pm 
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peregrinus wrote:
Steak tastes damn good
But gruel is better for you, if you close your eyes, it almost feels like you're eating runny eggs. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:55 am 
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The Kidd!! wrote:
[ img ]

Basically, all of your 'wanting' is a fast track back to The Matrix, coppertop...I hope you will see that one day...until then...
[ img ]

We'll save a seat for you. 8-)

as long as i'm not needy about it, then i don't see myself anywhere near the matrix.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:01 am 
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I know you don't see it...that's kind of the point. :|

But consider this...if me AND 'Grinus are taking time from our busy days to give you grief about something...it may behoove you to put your ego down and take the blinders of for juuuuuuuuust a minute to see just where we might be coming from...just sayin'. ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:52 am 
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The Kidd!! wrote:
I know you don't see it...that's kind of the point. :|

But consider this...if me AND 'Grinus are taking time from our busy days to give you grief about something...it may behoove you to put your ego down and take the blinders of for juuuuuuuuust a minute to see just where we might be coming from...just sayin'. ;)

My ego has nothing to do with this, i'm always open to learn new things, as long as they convince me. But if you're trying to tell me that wanting/wishing to have a good relationship or marriage in the future is not right, although i'm not being needy about it (it's just a wish i'm working to make happen, i won't be begging girls to make it happen for me :) ), then i'd be lying if i told you that you convinced me, because i don't see what's not right about it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:10 am 
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Barca wrote:

My ego has nothing to do with this,

i'm not being needy about it (it's just a wish i'm working to make happen, i won't be begging girls to make it happen for me :) ),
Your ego's acting up, you're being needy about it and that vibe will be felt by the girls, there's virtually no difference between that and you begging for it. :twisted:

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"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:41 pm 
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Barca wrote:
my choice of kit doesn't make the Man U kit less valuable, that's from your point of view. From my point of view, in comparison to Barca's kit, the Man U kit is less valuable. I'll tell you why. Have you ever felt some strong bond between you and someone else? Let's say a family member or a good/best friend. Are they of the same value to you as other people? Is your mother of the same value to you as other women? I'm sure the answer is no.

Yes, limiting choices of other people is not possible, and i don't want to do it anyway. And yes, when a woman has many choices, there is a chance that she might leave me. But again, if there is anything that would keep her no matter what happens, it's not money or kids or anything else, it's the bond she has with me. If this bond is strong enough, no matter how many choices she has, this bond will always make me her best choice.

All right Barca,

I have quoted your entire post above. Due to your mentality, you have not noticed your own inconsistencies. Have a look at this quote for example:
Quote:
my choice of kit doesn't make the Man U kit less valuable, that's from your point of view. From my point of view, in comparison to Barca's kit, the Man U kit is less valuable.
This doesn't make any sense. I would encourage you to have a rethink about what you are really trying to say. Furthermore, I would encourage you to have a re-think if those ideas you think you have are of your own volition.
Quote:
Have you ever felt some strong bond between you and someone else? Let's say a family member or a good/best friend. Are they of the same value to you as other people? Is your mother of the same value to you as other women? I'm sure the answer is no.
I'm afraid that you are mistaken. I do not apply value to people's lives. Not only does it extend to human beings, but animals as well.


I would say those were just elementary mistakes. Here's a more complex one:
Quote:
when a woman has many choices, there is a chance that she might leave me. But again, if there is anything that would keep her no matter what happens....
You openly acknowledge that a woman has a right to leave and yet you are scheming to keep hold of her with your incredible, bulletproof plan.

So what is this dramatic technological evolution that you have managed to figure out that none of us here have done?
Quote:
It's the bond she has with me.
er....you what?
Quote:
If this bond is strong enough, no matter how many choices she has, this bond will always make me her best choice.
You have gone from acknowledging that every person has a choice to trapping a woman with 'a strong bond'. And before you deny it, which I suspect you will, you have said it with your own words 'no matter [NO MATTER] how many choices she has, this bond will always [ALWAYS] make me her best choice'. You are basically saying that having a strong bond will contain her from looking elsewhere. Not only is it not true, but the very fact that you believe in and rely on such a bond will make you a bloodthirsty victim for a woman who understands choice. And believe me, they all understand choice. You see, Barca, the strong bond argument doesn't work, because you cannot see it. There is no physical proof that it exists. It is not on paper. If it was made as a verbal promise, then it can just as easily be taken away. If there were witnesses, it's none of their business. This is the very reason why humanity invented marriage. It was designed as a contract that was visible in as many ways as possible to ensure that choice would be visibly diminished. However, not even something written on a legal document could last as choice was and always has been the man's first natural right. It can never be taken away. Not even through religion, the legal system, a political debate or even a 'strong bond'.

This would be something that I call your 'breaking point'. You will understand this as your 'weakness', women understand this as your 'thing'. You know, the whole 'special bond' thing? This will be your thing. Once a woman figures this out, she will use this against you for the primary purpose of driving you insane.

One day you will come home (if you can even make it this far) and she will innocently tell you that she met a guy from work who she gets on with better than anyone. She will then tell you that she has a strong working relationship with him. You will dismiss it at first but after a few days she will tell you that she has a wonderful working bond with this guy. After your interests perk, she will see that she's got your attention and then she will tell you every day about the guy she has a 'strong bond' with. You will ask her if she wants to be with this guy, she will tell you 'No, I didn't mean like that, I mean just work-wise.'

After she leaves you for him, you will be crying on the phone telling her that you thought you had a strong bond with her. To which, not only will she laugh down the phone to you, she will have you on speaker-phone with her friends listening in to the conversation, laughing with her. She will also tell her sisters everything that's going on when they get together for their 'share-everything-about-your-love-life night'.

She will say to her friends, 'I just don't feel anything for him anymore, he keeps saying that we have a 'strong bond' or something - hahahahaha!! Hahahaha!!!"

Cue All laughter: hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

She will then tell her boyfriend, "I don't know why, he keeps saying that we have a strong bond, do you think that you have a strong bond with me?"
"Course I do baby, I got a really strong bond for ya - come here'
'Ooooh'!

As she fucks him, she will not remember you.

The above story I have made up almost completely. But if you knew the millions of men who have gone through this strife worldwide, you would be stunned. It is this kind of humiliation that makes men have utter contempt for women. It is the reason why this community has been around for so long and is still deep in the depths underground. It is the reason why some of the most experienced men in the realm of dating come to sites like these to give people advice.

They know what it's like. It's not very nice - and you are headed straight in that direction.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:52 pm 
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@Scarf

nice post. I see you already know that women can be bad or demonic.
You know when you first came here I thought: ah Scarf is just a Zan fan and thinks women are all perfect (just like the guys on Zan's pirate boat). But now I clearly see you are very down to earth and know exacly what's it like in the real world.

And your posts are very enlightening man so give me a high five.

@Barca

I'm not saying that this is going to happen to you but around 10 years ago I had a girl who told me that we have such a special bond. Yea she seemed like such a great girl.
Guess what?
when she thought I had no more value to offer her 'the bond' was broken and she disappear from my life and fucked off to the next guy who she thought would give her more value.

so 'the bond' was broken by her without much remorse.

Two years afterwards she tried to get me back. Maybe she thought she made a mistake Or maybe she thought I was going to entertain her until she finds another bond with someone else- I think that was her real agenda. I didn't fall for that trap the second time but falling for it once was painful enough.

You have no idea what you are dealing with and at some point it might sting as fuck.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:16 am 
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Maybe a heavy dose of reality is just what he needs to start waking up.

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"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:00 am 
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What I've come to understand by now, is the fact that girls are not in fact lying - the problem is that we men don't understand how they mean things they are saying.. It doesn't matter really when you don't care, but I see the correct way in this case as following:

She says "I feel such as special bond with you." (She is describing how she feels, not consciously knowing why she feels that way)
He thinks "Oh, she feels like this because I offer her values she needs. This may change in time, or it may not, time will show."

I mean.. It's the emotional which talks about what feelings we feel and it's the intellectual which talks about why is it happening.. Combination of both may be useful ?

Btw, I've come to believe that females say in every moment how they feel in every moment, includes things like "I'll love you forever"


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:50 am 
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Isn't that the case with people in general? how we feel about something one day is always subject to change the next, women are just more fickle in this regard.

When a girl says "I love you" etc. I don't believe it, that might be how she feels in the moment but it doesn't mean anything to me lol.

_________________
"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:49 pm 
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Bravo, Scarf...braVO! :ugeek:

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EVERYTHING in life is conditional...EVERYTHING. :ugeek:


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:52 pm 
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fufe wrote:

She says "I feel such as special bond with you." (She is describing how she feels, not consciously knowing why she feels that way)
she is consciously, and she knows how to use it, she knows that male ego react with that words, but women are pretty indifferent


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:07 pm 
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oh and in the past when a girls said to me somthing like that, i inmediatly felt hopeleness by not knowing how to compensate such "beautiful feeling" towards me.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:21 pm 
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Alchemist wrote:
When a girl says "I love you" etc. I don't believe it, that might be how she feels in the moment but it doesn't mean anything to me lol.
yes we have talked about this. Women are emotional so when they say something:
it's how they feel Right now. But tommarow she might feel different- so it's not forever...
it can be forever but it can be that she will flip flop tommarow :)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:29 pm 
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Alchemist wrote:
Barca wrote:
Your ego's acting up, you're being needy about it and that vibe will be felt by the girls, there's virtually no difference between that and you begging for it. :twisted:
we could do this all day long Alchemist. You say i'm needy and i say i'm not. At least i know myself and i use this as a proof to my point, but you knowing nothing about me, what proves your point?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:38 pm 
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Scarf,


why doesn't this sentence make any sense?
Quote:
my choice of kit doesn't make the Man U kit less valuable, that's from your point of view. From my point of view, in comparison to Barca's kit, the Man U kit is less valuable.
I said that you don't see the Man U kit as less valuable, but i do (and i explained that the reason for that is the bond). I really can't see where the part that doesn't make sense is.

Quote:
I do not apply value to people's lives.

You do not apply value to people's lives, but i do. This doesn't mean that either of us is wrong or right, this makes us only different. And so, this doesn't put any of us in any position to say what's wrong or right for each other concerning this point . Since you don't apply value to people's lives, then it would surely be expectable for you not to consider your girlfriend as a special person. But this doesn't make you capable of telling me that what i'm doing is wrong, and that me considering my girlfriend special is wrong too and that i shouldn't do it. The reason is simply because i, in contrast to you, do apply value to people's lives.

Quote:
You have gone from acknowledging that every person has a choice to trapping a woman with 'a strong bond'. And before you deny it, which I suspect you will, you have said it with your own words 'no matter [NO MATTER] how many choices she has, this bond will always [ALWAYS] make me her best choice'. You are basically saying that having a strong bond will contain her from looking elsewhere.

Yes, i did say that having a strong bond with your girlfriend will make you her best choice, and thus will make you stay together. BUT, i also said in my post to Sniper that it also depends on what the girl is looking for. If a girl isn't looking for a long serious relationship, then such a bond probably won't do alot, i'm telling you that myself. But if the girl is serious about the relationship and wants it to work for as far as it can (and there are such girls you know), then yes, i think such a bond is the best way for the relationship to work (ofcourse given that the man is serious about the relationship too).

Quote:
One day you will come home (if you can even make it this far) and she will innocently tell you that she met a guy from work who she gets on with better than anyone. She will then tell you that she has a strong working relationship with him. You will dismiss it at first but after a few days she will tell you that she has a wonderful working bond with this guy. After your interests perk, she will see that she's got your attention and then she will tell you every day about the guy she has a 'strong bond' with. You will ask her if she wants to be with this guy, she will tell you 'No, I didn't mean like that, I mean just work-wise.'

After she leaves you for him, you will be crying on the phone telling her that you thought you had a strong bond with her. To which, not only will she laugh down the phone to you, she will have you on speaker-phone with her friends listening in to the conversation, laughing with her. She will also tell her sisters everything that's going on when they get together for their 'share-everything-about-your-love-life night'.

She will say to her friends, 'I just don't feel anything for him anymore, he keeps saying that we have a 'strong bond' or something - hahahahaha!! Hahahaha!!!"

Cue All laughter: hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

She will then tell her boyfriend, "I don't know why, he keeps saying that we have a strong bond, do you think that you have a strong bond with me?"
"Course I do baby, I got a really strong bond for ya - come here'
'Ooooh'!

As she fucks him, she will not remember you.

This story you mentioned, is just a story, it shouldn't have to be my reality. I can also give you stories about people i know whose relationship and bond are more than great, and i can also make up conversations between a couple who's in love, would this make it my reality and prove who's wrong or right? Ofcourse not.

Apart from all of this, Scarf, and as i am trying to understand what you're saying, i'd like to ask you some questions. Do you believe in relationships? If yes, what's the point of having a girlfriend who you find neither valuable nor special? And since you seem to find it almost impossible for relationships to work, because according to you girls will always jump from one guy to a better one, then is any relationship capable of lasting at all?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:39 pm 
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Sniper,


i understand that you're trying to help me. Thanks, but as i mentioned to Scarf, your story shouldn't have to be my or anyone else's reality. I might go exactly through the same thing you went through, but in the end the bond won't be broken and the relationship would work and last. Is there anything, any proof or any rule that says that such things don't happen and such a relationship doesn't/can't exist?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:25 am 
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Barca wrote:
we could do this all day long Alchemist. You say i'm needy and i say i'm not. At least i know myself and i use this as a proof to my point, but you knowing nothing about me, what proves your point?
It's true that I don't know you personally but it doesn't take a genius from reading what you write where you're headed with your mindset.

What proves my point? you will realize this in the outcome with your next girl. ;)

I won't spend anymore time to explain this to you because you won't listen, but it's cool, I do sincerely hope you wake up eventually and you will, but unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) like me you'll have to learn the hard way.

_________________
"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:48 pm 
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Alchemist wrote:
Barca wrote:
we could do this all day long Alchemist. You say i'm needy and i say i'm not. At least i know myself and i use this as a proof to my point, but you knowing nothing about me, what proves your point?
It's true that I don't know you personally but it doesn't take a genius from reading what you write where you're headed with your mindset.

What proves my point? you will realize this in the outcome with your next girl. ;)

I won't spend anymore time to explain this to you because you won't listen, but it's cool, I do sincerely hope you wake up eventually and you will, but unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) like me you'll have to learn the hard way.
i can't be convinced by hypothesis or assumptions which are exactly as valid as their opposite, and this is all i got from your posts. So for sure don't expect me to listen, you wouldn't either if you were in my place. Anyway, my mindset will lead me to huge problems, where as yours will lead you to eternal happiness. Whatever makes you happy :). Thanks for your time :)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:36 pm 
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Barca wrote:
Alchemist wrote:
Barca wrote:
we could do this all day long Alchemist. You say i'm needy and i say i'm not. At least i know myself and i use this as a proof to my point, but you knowing nothing about me, what proves your point?
It's true that I don't know you personally but it doesn't take a genius from reading what you write where you're headed with your mindset.

What proves my point? you will realize this in the outcome with your next girl. ;)

I won't spend anymore time to explain this to you because you won't listen, but it's cool, I do sincerely hope you wake up eventually and you will, but unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) like me you'll have to learn the hard way.
i can't be convinced by hypothesis or assumptions which are exactly as valid as their opposite, and this is all i got from your posts. So for sure don't expect me to listen, you wouldn't either if you were in my place. Anyway, my mindset will lead me to huge problems, where as yours will lead you to eternal happiness. Whatever makes you happy :). Thanks for your time :)
Yet this proves this proverb:


He who has ears to hear, let him hear


Matthew 11:15

Good luck Barca. :)

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