Natural Freedom

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:11 pm 
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ManniJa,


if i want love, and i don't get needy about it, then i don't see anything feminine here. Again i think you misunderstood me. I'm not going to ask the girl to show me love and feelings. She either has it or she don't.

I meant that i like or wish to have love in a relationship, but i would never be that desperate to act needy about it. And if i don't feel love in a relationship, i would end the relationship for sure, i don't want to be in such a relationship in the first place.

The love subject could have a bad side, yes, but it all depends on how you deal with it. I've been there too, and it worked more than great for me.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:34 pm 
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The Kidd!! wrote:
'Grinus...need some back up in here. :lol:
Okey dokey :ugeek:
The Kidd!! wrote:
if you are indeed focused on their WANTS...then things are not going to end well for you.
THIS!
rant wrote:
that thing about, the "special one girl" is nothing more than a a program in your head.
THIS!

Before anyone comments, this comes personally from observation.
Many moons ago I did believe in the 'special one' - I do not anymore.

There are women who will be a good match for me. To think there is only one is foolish. To think one is above all the others is foolish also.
scarface wrote:
When it comes to (try to) making a women feel what they want and feel as good feelings, that's what ime keeps them coming back for more. If you feel totally indifferent towards that, and don't give her the good feelings. You'll encounter that most women won't want you. I do think it is good to feel indifferent about if you didn't manage to give her the good feelings you tried to give her, but you did gave it your best effort.
FUCK THAT!

Whatever happened to space.

Fuck giving them good feelings, give them the space to create them themselves.
The Kidd!! wrote:
I still think you guys are confusing indifference with apathy. :|

You guys are assuming that you cannot properly love your woman while being indifferent...I'm telling you that you CAN. My keeper is VERY happy with the way I am towards her. Doesn't make me any less loving, affectionate or caring. You guys really just are not getting where I'm coming from. :|
Apathy is described as :
Quote:
apathy, a profound intellectual and emotional indifference suggestive of faculties either naturally sluggish or dulled by emotional disturbance, mental illness, or prolonged sickness;
Indifference is described as:
Quote:
Lack of interest or concern: We were shocked by their indifference toward poverty.
Unimportance; little or no concern: Whether or not to attend the party is a matter of indifference to him.
The quality or condition of being indifferent.
There is quite a difference between the two.

Indifference is NOT apathy, apathy is NOT indifference.

Indifference in this sense is to her being with you, her choosing to spend time with you.

Indifference means being that tree.
If she comes towards you, you do not call her forward.
If she goes away, you do not call her back.

When the bird is perched on the tree, the tree is a tree, regardless of what bird is perched there. When the bird leaves the tree does not miss the bird. When another bird perches the tree is still the same tree.

-

A woman I was seeing a couple of years ago still calls me now, she called over the weekend. Describing me as very loving, extremely supportive of her, let her be herself - rather than the mask, let her feel her emotions fully - rather than controlling or dismissing.
She says she never felt so loved in her life, had not been so connected with someone or loved someone so much and so deeply.

Was I indifferent when I was with her - YES!
Did I connect with her emotionally and physically - YES!
Did I take her wants and needs above my own - NO!
Did I take her wants and needs into consideration when they did not clash with my own - YES!

Are the two mutually exclusive - NO!

--

She could have walked at any time and I would have carried on as I was before I met her.
In the end, I was the one who ended it, I walked away after explaining why. I carried on as I was before I met her.

I can live with or without her, I can enjoy myself with or without her, I can have fun with or without her.

Does this mean I did not enjoy my time with her, NO! - I did enjoy the time with her and connected with her on a deep level.

Did this affect who I am - NO! I am me, I was me before I met her, I am me now, afterwards.

She respects this greatly, the fact that I ended how I started.
She knows I am the same person, I was being myself, that I am not trying to get anything from her.

Would she go out with me again? - in a heartbeat.

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:50 pm 
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Fantastic post 'Grinus!

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A wise man once said "I find that a duck's opinion of me is influenced by whether or not I have bread."


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:52 pm 
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Thanks 'Grinus...had to bring out the BIG guns. :mrgreen:

If you guys STILL don't get it, then it's just gonna hafta suck for you I guess. :|

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:05 am 
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Barca, whether you like it or not, Kidd and Peregrinus are right.

Indifference comes from a good place, there's nothing negative about it, really.

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"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:57 am 
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Barca wrote:
Thank you for your words about Barca. If i were to choose between a Barca and a Manchester United kit (both made by Nike), i would choose Barca's kit only, without any doubt. I wouldn't do that because of the label, otherwise i would have chosen the Man U kit too. I would do it because Barca means something to me, and i wouldn't compare it to any other kit, just the same way i wouldn't compare my girlfriend to other girls. If i had to get rid of my shirts, i would do it until i reach the Barca kit where i would say "this is not any kit, this is a Barca kit".

Your right to choice can never, ever be taken away. And you can never be indifferent to that choice. That's what I said in the first sentence. But your choice of kit doesn't make Manchester United any less valuable. If anything, you need to have a Man Utd kit available just to support the whole notion of choice, otherwise you can't choose.

Quote:
I'm not a fan of relationships which start days after i meet someone. I'm not a fan of one night stands or short relationships either. I prefer serious, long lasting relationships, and i have my principles that i follow in order to achieve that. One of them is that i don't prefer to just date anyone, i prefer to date girls that i know (at least a little). But most important of all, i don't want to have a "normal" relationship, where the both sides don't mean alot to each other, and where both sides could literally leave each other any moment.
You can only ever speak for yourself. It is your choice to limit your choice. However, it is not possible for you to limit other people's choices. If it is another's decision to leave, they can leave. No relationship-y characteristic is going to stop that. Not if you're married, have kids, have the same plans or how much you have in common. Someone who recognises that they can choose over and over again will be happy to choose over you. Women do this all the time because they are pursued so often. Your special woman; the loveliest creature on the face of the earth will turn you over without a second thought, simply because she can. That's why when a woman understands that you are dependent on the relationship to be 'serious' and 'long lasting', she will take the piss.

And she'll do it with a smile on her face.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:25 pm 
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I think I see where you are going with this, Scarf...and it really isn't that far removed from the indifference concept. To put it in your terms, yes, I chose who my keeper would be, but only after I knew that she had chosen me...and if she were to choose another over me, I wouldn't lose any sleep. Close? :geek:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:06 pm 
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Agreed.


(I just don't agree with the term 'indifference'. Regardless of definition, it implies 'no preference' and 'disinterest'. That's just going too far in my view)

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:21 pm 
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Scarf wrote:
You can only ever speak for yourself.

It is your choice to limit your choice. However, it is not possible for you to limit other people's choices.

If it is another's decision to leave, they can leave. No relationship-y characteristic is going to stop that. Not if you're married, have kids, have the same plans or how much you have in common.

Someone who recognises that they can choose over and over again will be happy to choose over you. Women do this all the time because they are pursued so often.

Your special woman; the loveliest creature on the face of the earth will turn you over without a second thought, simply because she can.

That's why when a woman understands that you are dependent on the relationship to be 'serious' and 'long lasting', she will take the piss and she'll do it with a smile on her face..
I like this Scarf

Sums it up nicely from another perspective, same underlying core message.

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:27 pm 
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Scarf,


my choice of kit doesn't make the Man U kit less valuable, that's from your point of view. From my point of view, in comparison to Barca's kit, the Man U kit is less valuable. I'll tell you why. Have you ever felt some strong bond between you and someone else? Let's say a family member or a good/best friend. Are they of the same value to you as other people? Is your mother of the same value to you as other women? I'm sure the answer is no.

Yes, limiting choices of other people is not possible, and i don't want to do it anyway. And yes, when a woman has many choices, there is a chance that she might leave me. But again, if there is anything that would keep her no matter what happens, it's not money or kids or anything else, it's the bond she has with me. If this bond is strong enough, no matter how many choices she has, this bond will always make me her best choice.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:43 am 
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Barca wrote:
it's the bond she has with me. If this bond is strong enough, no matter how many choices she has, this bond will always make me her best choice.
this bond you are talking about is the value that you offer her. If someone else was to offer the same value or more value than you- the 'bond' will be broken and she will have this bond with Him...

I know that's not what you want to hear but heck, life is not this:


[ img ]

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:16 am 
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Barca wrote:
.

Yes, limiting choices of other people is not possible, and i don't want to do it anyway. And yes, when a woman has many choices, there is a chance that she might leave me. But again, if there is anything that would keep her no matter what happens, it's not money or kids or anything else, it's the bond she has with me. If this bond is strong enough, no matter how many choices she has, this bond will always make me her best choice.
You're still putting her on a pedestal, even if you might be her best choice that will not stop her from exploring other options, especially with your mindset, that shit's not permanent anyway....it's harsh but if you accept this you will spare yourself some pain

Would you provide a woman with children and money in order to 'keep' her?, if you see where this kind of thinking leads it's not a pretty picture.

_________________
"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:08 pm 
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Sniper,

i don't think so, otherwise no one would be able to date except guys which offer high value. And, it really depends on what the girl is looking for. I might agree with you if she's not serious about the relationship, but if she is, then it won't be that easy to break the bond (if possible at all).

Anyway, and i don't mean to sound arrogant, but i have confidence in the value i offer.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:10 pm 
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Alchemist,

that depends on the girl. Not all girls look for other options at the same time where they have the best option for them. Especially if the girl is looking for a serious relationship.

Regarding this question:
Quote:
Would you provide a woman with children and money in order to 'keep' her?
never. No woman is ever going to be that good. If she doesn't want to stay with me, then i will not stand in her way. I won't try to win her back or keep her either. I'd rather be with someone who wants me and wants to stay with me.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:19 pm 
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Barca wrote:
that depends on the girl. Not all girls look for other options at the same time where they have the best option for them. Especially if the girl is looking for a serious relationship.
I would say at the very least they'd probably be more inclined to capitalize on the fact that they have options if they're in a 'serious' relationship....but I tend to be cynical about that shit so.... :lol:

_________________
"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:54 pm 
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Barca wrote:
Sniper,

i don't think so, otherwise no one would be able to date except guys which offer high value. And, it really depends on what the girl is looking for. I might agree with you if she's not serious about the relationship, but if she is, then it won't be that easy to break the bond (if possible at all).

Anyway, and i don't mean to sound arrogant, but i have confidence in the value i offer.
I never said that the value you offer is not good enough. All I wanted you is to think :geek: ...
you are going into the path back to the matrix and it ain't healthy :|

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:04 pm 
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You guys have at it...he's gone with the wind! :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:12 pm 
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Steak tastes damn good

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:05 pm 
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Sniper wrote:
Barca wrote:
Sniper,
I never said that the value you offer is not good enough. All I wanted you is to think :geek: ...
you are going into the path back to the matrix and it ain't healthy :|

i know you didn't say that, i just mentioned it to show you why i'm convinced of what i'm saying.

I don't see how i'm going into the path back to the matrix. I want me a good long relationship, a relationship which i want to enjoy every aspect of. I don't value women more than they deserve, and i don't treat them in a special way (and i never did). Me wanting a good relationship won't change that. The only woman i'm going to treat special would be my girlfriend, provided that she deserves it. Where does going back to the matrix come in here?

Being out of the matrix path means that you shouldn't cherish women, and shouldn't think that they are perfect angels just because they are women. However, it doesn't mean that we should treat them bad either. Treat each woman in the way she deserves. If my girlfriend would deserve such a treatment, then she would get it from me. If not, then i don't want her in a relationship with me in the first place.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:05 pm 
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[ img ]

Basically, all of your 'wanting' is a fast track back to The Matrix, coppertop...I hope you will see that one day...until then...
[ img ]

We'll save a seat for you. 8-)

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EVERYTHING in life is conditional...EVERYTHING. :ugeek:


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