Natural Freedom

Trying hard and trying to impress, to me, are matters of HOW and not WHAT.

Spending $500,000 on a car is not inherently trying hard. Not if you love cars and always wanted one, and it makes you feel good driving it. You could have a car like that and refuse to let women get anywhere near it, heh.

Spending x amount of money, wearing white or wearing garbage bags have no meaning to *inherently*. You could wear a burlap sack and be doing it because you think it's going to get attention If a guy doesn't actually like to wear white but he's doing it for the perception of others, then that is what it is.

I actually think that's really interested and am glad you shared it, and I also don't think it is right or "wrong" to do something specifically for the effect, to me it's just all about conscious choice. I'm doing this to get this effect because I want that effect.

The main difference is if it is coming from your true desire to express yourself or if it is deeply rooted in 'what can I do to fit in, to feel accepted, to feel OK' which can be buried deep. I think we are all better served taking on that challenge, and not make any rules saying doing xyz means you are trying hard or abc means you are not.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXz8xMaJi4

...and if you don't like wearing white?

Edit/addition: The only thing I'm trying hard to do is spend my money on something I enjoy. All I was trying to say with that is that I think it's important to put money/time/effort towards things you enjoy. I personally derive more enjoyment from my cars than from my clothing. Thus, my money/time/attention goes towards that.

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I don't need your pussy, b!tch, I'm on my own dick - Kanye

Could call this semantic but I think it is an interesting difference.

There is doing things out of a need for approval, and doing things because they have a specific result you want, even if you don't love the thing.

IE, maybe you really don't like to exercise, but you love the after effects of it, or what it brings to you (this could include how others treat you) so you deal with something you don't really dig for the desired effect.

There's almost always a bit of what some might choose to call 'doing it for approval' ie you don't show up 2 hours late for work every day because that would piss off the boss and get you fired, or doing the job at all, but you like the effect of money.

Then there's the spectrum of selling your soul and not even knowing what you want, basing all our decisions around hoping it will fit in or women will like it.

Unless you are the king of your country most balance these on some level and in my view, it is as long as you are conscious of what you are doing, and doing it specifically because it benefits what YOU want your life to look like in the bigger picture even if you don't love the thing.

Yeah ok a little philosophical for talking about wearing white but what can you do, haha.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXz8xMaJi4

^^^This is actually a really good insight.

If you think about it, we're all more or less guilty of doing this.

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I don't need your pussy, b!tch, I'm on my own dick - Kanye

You have to, IMHO it's just about balancing it so that you are only "playing the game" as much as you need to in order to live your life on your terms. I have created a situation where I'm freelance and travel, and that's totally cool, but if someone hires me to do something somewhat specific I have to do it to "get their approval" if I want their money. The better you get the more selective you get to become etc.

If you are stopping at red lights you aren't doing "whatever you want" - heh, but as long as you have clarity on what you're about and a vision for what you want to do, you can adjust it so you are rigging the game as best you can to live the way you want without getting arrested or having people trying to kill you But even that you are doing for YOU, or you can go through as a people pleaser where the only intention is making other people happy because you depend on that to be happy.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXz8xMaJi4

In your example there's a mutual agreement. And both parties have to bring something to the table ("approval" as you used it), you have to do the service and they have to pay you the money, both agreed upon, mutually.

But, approval seeking in the truest form, is lame. For instance trying to impress women with clothing, cars, what have you. All that should be for your own enjoyment and not to impress someone else.
It's all about knowing and accepting the truth. You can be speedin past a police car, but you should know that you'll probably get a ticket, lose your driving license or even get some jail time if you do so.

But in general you don't depend on random people to be happy, and so trying to seek their approval is unnecessary. I agree with you, it'a all about balance. You have to be able to distinguish between when you are fulfilling a mutual agreement and when you are just kissing ass because of your low self esteem.

For me the ultimate goal is complete freedom, where I don't have to keep anyone happy, especially "authorities".
If... I like that.

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1ThewholeWorldbesearchinforthosewho'dbesearchinforthemselves.

3Hearingstoriesabouttheirgrandparents,madethesonsintogreatsons.Allgreatheroesadoredheroeswhotheyregardedas 13xGreater thanthemselves-theGreatBeingsoftheFuturesPast-totheirlastbreath.

Glad I don't know then
Ah.. that's why.
Who gives a shit?
And I'll rather walk then taking the bus, in white. And then I can tell women I'm saving the planet, so I seem even less threatening to them.
Ah, that's were we'll draw the line then..

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1ThewholeWorldbesearchinforthosewho'dbesearchinforthemselves.

3Hearingstoriesabouttheirgrandparents,madethesonsintogreatsons.Allgreatheroesadoredheroeswhotheyregardedas 13xGreater thanthemselves-theGreatBeingsoftheFuturesPast-totheirlastbreath.

I recently bought a new car, a bmw. Used, nothing too fancy. I bought it because it was perfect for me and I knew I would enjoy it. Did so even though that bmw owners in general have a very bad reputation in my country (gangsters, drug dealers, reckless drivers and what not), but I didn't care, in fact it didn't even cross my mind at that time.

So, this one time while I was driving there was young women crossing my way, where she were not allowed to and so I had to slow down. And then what? Clutch in and make that engine roar. She screamed for like 10 seconds straight and then crossed the road as fast as a squirrel

Moral of the story: Why be less threatening, when you can me MORE threatening? It's way more fun and your path will be cleared

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1ThewholeWorldbesearchinforthosewho'dbesearchinforthemselves.

3Hearingstoriesabouttheirgrandparents,madethesonsintogreatsons.Allgreatheroesadoredheroeswhotheyregardedas 13xGreater thanthemselves-theGreatBeingsoftheFuturesPast-totheirlastbreath.

I hear ya. It is interesting to observe in those dynamics, even though the agreement is there, what it means to you.

Approval seeking can run very deep and in a way that is different than impressing women -- for example with bosses, teachers, etc I used to have a very strong need to be acknowledged as a "good student" or "good employee" etc.. this was an emotional thing that went far beyond the agreement, it was a part of the identity, and it needed to come from the authority figure to feel valid. If you are a perfectionist, this can get thrown into approval here too (if anyone doesn't like what you are doing it means you are not 'perfect')

This can take the route of rebellion where you say screw everyone and I don't need to do anything I don't want to do, etc. - but then like you said, if the consequences of you being mr. badass are you likely going to jail/losing drivers license etc not gonna prove much of a point.

The most powerful place I am finding to operate from is where you do the things you want to do, for you, and the business you have to take care of that maybe you don't love - you see how it fits into the big picture and so you take care of it like a man. You start to want to do things well simply because you are doing it and it is a reflection of your inner state -- maybe you will dress differently to express something and that is different than hopping around desperately craving some reaction.

If you make a rule that says you can't do xyz with or around women, i can't do this because that would be trying to impress, that wouldn't be indifferent enough, etc - and you wouldn't make that rule about anything else in life that is there for you to enjoy for what it is, then from my perspective even though you might tell yourself you are doing one thing, you are actually giving women a form of special treatment that doesn't serve you or them.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXz8xMaJi4

I addressed that exactly. Drop your filters and look at the big picture.
That wasn't your original message. Nice cover up.
Nice trolling.

When you have a valid point present it because you haven't done squat.
Oh, so you're not cognizant of your environment?

Oh, you like scaring women? Do you like the police?

Have you read anything on this site about staying under the radar?

Or, do you get a kick out of trolling like Deez_Nuts because you can't see the big picture?

Seriously, stop acting like you're boss on the internet. You're not threatening at all.

You know what you are? You're a mark just like Deez_Nutz.


/Done with this trolling and circle jerking and retarded theorizing that doesn't come from experience

You are talking about doing something because of your environment and a conscious choice to have an effect. And self expression.. at least as I interpreted it.

How vs what is simply that, if you look/do certain things to go under the radar, that is not the same as doing something for approval seeking behavior. Many lump this all together. You are still playing to win, not just doing "whatever" and paying no attention to how people react or how it affects you, which is how many interpret "not seeking approval."

If you dress down/up/whatever to serve your purpose, what you want to say, your environment and not just out of a deep need to fit in, that's an attitude, can't be copped by external behavior.. debating the behaviors themselves is irrelevant, your point on the big picture is not lost.

As for my physical build, demeanor, voice, etc - it would take a lot more than a car to make me appear threatening

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXz8xMaJi4

BTW my interest in this is from the original post(s),

Recognition that your motivation to dress a certain way is to get approval.

Understandable response, f- that, i'm going to dress down/wear whatever, which means i'm not going for approval.

Could be a valuable step to take, but I like this area of don't take non-approval-seeking to mean you don't style it up etc.

I was guilty in the past of thinking every sharp dressed guy, or doing certain styles was basically "try-hard" automatically -- look at that guy, just wants attention. But there is a difference in vibe when it's because you like.

I am finding myself becoming more interested in fashion and style because the more concepts drop away (ie doing that is try-hard), the more options I have to play with and see what it does. It can affect how you feel too.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXz8xMaJi4

For sure. You (not you personally Flow, but in general) are not going to show up for a job interview at a Fortune 500 company in Jeans & T-shirt?

Sometimes you DO have to play by certain rules, if you WANT to get something.

Plus, in my personal opinion, I find that when I buy more expensive quality clothing, it fits me better, I feel better wearing it and I wear it more often.

How often do we waste money buying clothes we only wear once or twice? The whole 80/20 rule.

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"Truth is not something that can be truly and deeply understood by having it spoon-fed to you." - Adyashanti

Sorry, didn't get your point. Care to elaborate? Anyway, my point was why try to seem authentic to women (approval seeking), when you can be authentic to yourself (fullfilling).
I strive to get to a level where I don't have to be. Slowly getting there. First step was to stop caring what random people think of me.
I like treating people accordingly.
Yes, and sometimes you need to bring the big guns out.
Okay, boss

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1ThewholeWorldbesearchinforthosewho'dbesearchinforthemselves.

3Hearingstoriesabouttheirgrandparents,madethesonsintogreatsons.Allgreatheroesadoredheroeswhotheyregardedas 13xGreater thanthemselves-theGreatBeingsoftheFuturesPast-totheirlastbreath.

The flying under the radar part to avoid haters is important. It's also the mark of a self aware man to not make others insecure needlessly. I don't go out of my way to look like a baller even though I could if I wanted.

It's also a point of self discipline. Do you really need the things your looking at or is it something you'll buy and then realize you don't really want it.

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"The heart is deep beyond all things, and it is the man. Even so, who can know him."

This. I've bought quite a few things like this and realized that it's not the way to go.

Wasn't trying to troll this thread, in case anyone had some doubt as to that. I thought there was some interesting discussion on this topic to be had.

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I don't need your pussy, b!tch, I'm on my own dick - Kanye

Anyways guys i have found a look that works well for me.I feel that dressing kind of preppy/nerdy suits me well because i am more of the academic type and it also gives me a nice cloak.I want women to think that i am a socially clueless,typical nice guy that's unaware of his surrounding and can easily be lured into buying them things then hit them when they don't expect it.Can't wait to get a pair of glasses.

I think the name of term of the concept of chloting that you used, caliboy85 is: "cognitive dissonance" or something like that. It's widley used in pua circles and specially VinDicarlo 'patented' that "technique".

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GMST

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EVERYTHING in life is conditional...EVERYTHING.

Pimposophy Revisited is now finally available on Amazon in all territories!

I heard they missed the bus

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXz8xMaJi4