Natural Freedom

Forum for the natural awakening and self-realization of men
It is currently Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:29 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Diet Advice needed.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:55 pm
Posts: 2926
Location: Canada
I've recently overhauled my diet. To be healthier and as a side effect to get a little bit more muscle definition. So some advice..especially from Star would be greatly appreciated.

My lifestyle is very active I work a hard labour job for 12 hours a day. And then I have a really short workout I do from Convict Conditioning. It's about 7 minutes a day or so to do but most of the time I'm so exhausted from work I just go to bed and workout on my week off. My strength keeps going up.

In terms of diet. I eat a little bit of meat everyday. After reading Zogler's thing on protein not really being needed because we get so much already..but wasn't gonna give it up completely I'll have like a chicken breast a day or something smallish like that.

The rest of my food comes from fruit and veggies. And then I get my carbs from stuff like bread, pasta, potatoes. Nothing is really measured out I just eat whenever I'm hungry which is like all the time :lol: .

I wouldn't mind being a bit bulkier/more muscle definition. I'm not super skinny anymore. 6'1 and 185-190 pounds (12-13% body fat) but no matter how much I eat I never really go over that.

Any tips?

_________________
A truly powerful Man jealously guards his most precious resources; his independence and his ability to maneuver. True power isn’t controlling others, but the degree to which you control the course of your own life and your own choices. -Rational Male


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Diet Advice needed.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:19 am
Posts: 29
Bulletproofexecutive.com

_________________
"Genuine truth angers people in general because they don't know what to do with the energy generated by a glimpse of reality." Greg W. Goodwin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Diet Advice needed.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:54 am
Posts: 401
Location: Levelling up.
12 hrs hard labour a day sounds like slavery. But I've been there and I know what it's like.

For diet I would recommend ignoring Zogler re:protein. We don't need as much, but more than a piece of chicken. With your job, You're going to need calories, and lot's of them;

1) Drop the bread and pasta for GOOD. Nothing beneficial about them, tons detrimental.
2) CARBS - Ignore anyone who says carbs make you gain weight, or to ignore sugar. Eat roots, tubers, beets etc - cruciferous veggies aren't necessary, most are indigestible - eat white potato, yams and ripe, seasonal fruit and when you need more cals then white rice(a lesser evil, just pure energy).
3) Dairy - disputed topic, but natural greek yoghurt is good shit.
4) Fat - you need it. Ignore vegetable oils, go for saturated like butter(grass fed).
5) Protein - We don't need as much, but it's still vital especially for the physically active(which i'm not sure Zogler and his 1800kcal vegan diet will be for much longer). Ignore farm factory, proccessed meat. Go for grass fed in moderation and stuff like eggs.

Mix all that shit together.

Exercise. Training everyday straight off a 12 hr labour shift is too much. If you're really doing 12 hrs of tough grunt work a day, then cut your training back to 2-3 times p/wk. Your body will thank me for this 10 yrs down the line. As for the type of exercise? Head over to gymnasticbodies.com - Read and learn. Get tutoring. Become a God.

This is what I do. I'm clever about it though. Out of my selected foods I eat what my body tells me it wants. I'm not saying it is perfect or anything, but mostly if you cut out crap like bread, pasta, PUFA's, HFCS's etc, you will feel ALOT better. At 27 I am fitter, leaner, more agile and quicker than I was at 21. Training wise I also listen to my body.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Diet Advice needed.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:58 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:07 pm
Posts: 589
Location: The side of a mountain somewhere...
Leo wrote:
12 hrs hard labour a day sounds like slavery. But I've been there and I know what it's like.

For diet I would recommend ignoring Zogler re:protein. We don't need as much, but more than a piece of chicken. With your job, You're going to need calories, and lot's of them;

1) Drop the bread and pasta for GOOD. Nothing beneficial about them, tons detrimental.
2) CARBS - Ignore anyone who says carbs make you gain weight, or to ignore sugar. Eat roots, tubers, beets etc - cruciferous veggies aren't necessary, most are indigestible - eat white potato, yams and ripe, seasonal fruit and when you need more cals then white rice(a lesser evil, just pure energy).
3) Dairy - disputed topic, but natural greek yoghurt is good shit.
4) Fat - you need it. Ignore vegetable oils, go for saturated like butter(grass fed).
5) Protein - We don't need as much, but it's still vital especially for the physically active(which i'm not sure Zogler and his 1800kcal vegan diet will be for much longer). Ignore farm factory, proccessed meat. Go for grass fed in moderation and stuff like eggs.

Mix all that shit together.

Exercise. Training everyday straight off a 12 hr labour shift is too much. If you're really doing 12 hrs of tough grunt work a day, then cut your training back to 2-3 times p/wk. Your body will thank me for this 10 yrs down the line. As for the type of exercise? Head over to gymnasticbodies.com - Read and learn. Get tutoring. Become a God.

This is what I do. I'm clever about it though. Out of my selected foods I eat what my body tells me it wants. I'm not saying it is perfect or anything, but mostly if you cut out crap like bread, pasta, PUFA's, HFCS's etc, you will feel ALOT better. At 27 I am fitter, leaner, more agile and quicker than I was at 21. Training wise I also listen to my body.


My name is Meraki, and I approve this message...

_________________
"The society gives you a map; I give you only freedom. The society gives you character, I give you only consciousness. The society teaches you to live a conformist life ... I give you an invitation to go on an adventure." - Osho


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Diet Advice needed.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:41 am
Posts: 146
Leo wrote:
12 hrs hard labour a day sounds like slavery. But I've been there and I know what it's like.

For diet I would recommend ignoring Zogler re:protein. We don't need as much, but more than a piece of chicken. With your job, You're going to need calories, and lot's of them;

1) Drop the bread and pasta for GOOD. Nothing beneficial about them, tons detrimental.
2) CARBS - Ignore anyone who says carbs make you gain weight, or to ignore sugar. Eat roots, tubers, beets etc - cruciferous veggies aren't necessary, most are indigestible - eat white potato, yams and ripe, seasonal fruit and when you need more cals then white rice(a lesser evil, just pure energy).
3) Dairy - disputed topic, but natural greek yoghurt is good shit.
4) Fat - you need it. Ignore vegetable oils, go for saturated like butter(grass fed).
5) Protein - We don't need as much, but it's still vital especially for the physically active(which i'm not sure Zogler and his 1800kcal vegan diet will be for much longer). Ignore farm factory, proccessed meat. Go for grass fed in moderation and stuff like eggs.

Mix all that shit together.

Exercise. Training everyday straight off a 12 hr labour shift is too much. If you're really doing 12 hrs of tough grunt work a day, then cut your training back to 2-3 times p/wk. Your body will thank me for this 10 yrs down the line. As for the type of exercise? Head over to gymnasticbodies.com - Read and learn. Get tutoring. Become a God.

This is what I do. I'm clever about it though. Out of my selected foods I eat what my body tells me it wants. I'm not saying it is perfect or anything, but mostly if you cut out crap like bread, pasta, PUFA's, HFCS's etc, you will feel ALOT better. At 27 I am fitter, leaner, more agile and quicker than I was at 21. Training wise I also listen to my body.


I agree.

Ignore zogler and his recommendations, which are based on the overwhelming preponderance of the evidence that has accumulated over many decades from all levels and types of research.

Follow Leo's advice, which is based on anecdotal evidence, that is storytelling.

Cognitive dissonance and ego together are a nasty combination. Truth doesn't change, whether you deny it or face it.

_________________
In an insane society, it is the sane who appear to be insane.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Diet Advice needed.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:07 pm
Posts: 589
Location: The side of a mountain somewhere...
Here's what I think (I have a Bachelors in Biological Sciences and worked as a research assistant in a physiology lab as an undergrad):

The human body is so complex that science has a hard time with it, and due to ethics, humans make terrible experimental subjects. Plus, science tries to boil down the observed results of an experiment to a single cause, or at most a handful of causes. But, at the level of the human body, there is essentially never just a single cause for anything - its all an interplay of many many factors. For this reason, it is almost impossible to do a well controlled experimental study of the effect that a substance/behavior (drug, food, diet, type of exercise, etc) has on humans and maintain relevance. Basically, for most of the "controlled" studies that are done on diet/exercise/health their results are either:

a) So ambiguous that its almost all up to the interpretation of the researchers to draw any conclusions, and thus the personal/structural/funding biases of the researchers come too much into play.

b) Conclusive, but only conclusive because the setup of the study predetermined the outcome. For example, a study that shows that a "low fat, high fiber" diet reduces heart disease/cancer, etc. Well, if you look at a lot of the studies that have shown that, then you'll see that the researchers are comparing the low-fat, high fiber diet to the Standard American Diet (SAD), which is basically McDonalds and Velveeta... While the results may be applicable to the so called "Standard American," I'm not the standard american myself (for many reasons), so the conclusions of that study have little to no relevance to me. Furthermore, I think that the SAD is probably about the worst diet you could possibly eat, and therefore ANY change is going to show improvements... Ironically, there are some studies that have tried to look at multiple diets (ie, atkins, vs. ornish, vs. US Govt. recommendations, etc), and they have more or less found that all the diets they test tend to have about the same effect (moderate improvement) when compared to the "control group." This to me indicates that the control group is not really a control group at all...

So with those two points in mind, when thinking about my own health, I tend to take controlled studies (normally the gold standard of science) with a very large grain of salt. So, how should we make health decisions then? Well, a more holistic approach is called for, that combines information from (in order of broad to specific):

a) Epidemiological research studies (basically looking at populations that already do something different and comparing them to a population that is more like you. Sounds great in theory, but their results are often very general/fuzzy/inconclusive since its impossible to isolate out individual factors).

b) Controlled research studies (but only some of them, and even then, determining their value based on my own opinions about their biases, funding sources, deficiencies, etc).

c) Evolutionary biology (we evolved to be healthy, not sick/full of heart disease/obese. The idea is to find out what conditions we evolved under and replicate them as best we can through diet/exercise/behavior/supplementation, and the so-called "diseases of civilization" will go away as well).

d) Clinical evidence (ie. case studies). If it worked for someone else in a clinical setting, it may work for you... If it works for lots of people in lots of clinical case studies, then its even more likely to work for you, though by no means guaranteed.

e) A study of n=1. The idea of a n=1 study is that the number of participants is 1: yourself. Clearly a study of yourself would not be applicable to anyone else, but ultimately they are all conducting their own n=1 studies and therefore its irrelevant what they are or aren't doing to themselves - the only thing that matters is you and how you respond to something.

Personally, I put by far the most credence in option E. There is no gospel when it comes to nutrition.

Zogler wrote:
Truth doesn't change, whether you deny it or face it.


There is no universal truth about diet that works for every single person.

There is no "infallible 100% optimal human diet." Trying to find "the optimal human diet" is a fools errand.

Instead, try things out in your own experiment of n=1. Eat more protein. See what it does. Eat less protein. See what it does. The only thing that matters is how you respond.

_________________
"The society gives you a map; I give you only freedom. The society gives you character, I give you only consciousness. The society teaches you to live a conformist life ... I give you an invitation to go on an adventure." - Osho


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Diet Advice needed.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:54 am
Posts: 401
Location: Levelling up.
zogler wrote:
Leo wrote:
12 hrs hard labour a day sounds like slavery. But I've been there and I know what it's like.

For diet I would recommend ignoring Zogler re:protein. We don't need as much, but more than a piece of chicken. With your job, You're going to need calories, and lot's of them;

1) Drop the bread and pasta for GOOD. Nothing beneficial about them, tons detrimental.
2) CARBS - Ignore anyone who says carbs make you gain weight, or to ignore sugar. Eat roots, tubers, beets etc - cruciferous veggies aren't necessary, most are indigestible - eat white potato, yams and ripe, seasonal fruit and when you need more cals then white rice(a lesser evil, just pure energy).
3) Dairy - disputed topic, but natural greek yoghurt is good shit.
4) Fat - you need it. Ignore vegetable oils, go for saturated like butter(grass fed).
5) Protein - We don't need as much, but it's still vital especially for the physically active(which i'm not sure Zogler and his 1800kcal vegan diet will be for much longer). Ignore farm factory, proccessed meat. Go for grass fed in moderation and stuff like eggs.

Mix all that shit together.

Exercise. Training everyday straight off a 12 hr labour shift is too much. If you're really doing 12 hrs of tough grunt work a day, then cut your training back to 2-3 times p/wk. Your body will thank me for this 10 yrs down the line. As for the type of exercise? Head over to gymnasticbodies.com - Read and learn. Get tutoring. Become a God.

This is what I do. I'm clever about it though. Out of my selected foods I eat what my body tells me it wants. I'm not saying it is perfect or anything, but mostly if you cut out crap like bread, pasta, PUFA's, HFCS's etc, you will feel ALOT better. At 27 I am fitter, leaner, more agile and quicker than I was at 21. Training wise I also listen to my body.


I agree.

Ignore zogler and his recommendations, which are based on the overwhelming preponderance of the evidence that has accumulated over many decades from all levels and types of research.

Follow Leo's advice, which is based on anecdotal evidence, that is storytelling.

Cognitive dissonance and ego together are a nasty combination. Truth doesn't change, whether you deny it or face it.



My advice is based on hundred's of thousand's of years of EVOLUTIONARY evidence. The only decent thing you've recommended is fruit, and 1800kcals for the lifestyle Altair has will send him into a metabolic shithole. Not even enough for a sedentary young man. To assume truth for everyone else is totally arrogant and deluded. This is why I said what I do is NOT perfect, but you believe you and the decades of research is somehow the holy grail of health and nutrition. Come back in 10 years when you can't even get a stiff dick without popping pills.

I would add Milk to this equation actually. And I would drop chicken, and not have meat as a main source of protein. I basically drink Milk, OJ, and eat cheese, potato, butter, Liver, some meat....pretty much it. Veggies are pretty much a waste of time - Calorically sparse and evidently toxic.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Diet Advice needed.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:04 am
Posts: 465
Location: Amurrka
Leo wrote:
My advice is based on hundred's of thousand's of years of EVOLUTIONARY evidence. The only decent thing you've recommended is fruit, and 1800kcals for the lifestyle Altair has will send him into a metabolic shithole. Not even enough for a sedentary young man. To assume truth for everyone else is totally arrogant and deluded. This is why I said what I do is NOT perfect, but you believe you and the decades of research is somehow the holy grail of health and nutrition. Come back in 10 years when you can't even get a stiff dick without popping pills.

I would add Milk to this equation actually. And I would drop chicken, and not have meat as a main source of protein. I basically drink Milk, OJ, and eat cheese, potato, butter, Liver, some meat....pretty much it. Veggies are pretty much a waste of time - Calorically sparse and evidently toxic.


Image

_________________
“I learned this, at least, by my experiment; that if one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours. . . ."

-Thoreau's Walden


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Diet Advice needed.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:33 am
Posts: 1538
Location: Czech Republic
Leo wrote:
Veggies are pretty much a waste of time - Calorically sparse and evidently toxic.


The best part


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Diet Advice needed.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:02 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:54 am
Posts: 401
Location: Levelling up.
Fufe, with a little research you can learn some things which separate the shit from the truth. Vegetables being health 'superfoods' is a terrible myth, if not a downright lie. Mostly plants are indigestible to our systems, especially when raw. Look into Ray Peat's stuff if interested.

PKT - I seem to recall you are a vegan now? Maybe I'm mistaking your for another. Anyway, the point is do what you want as I have nothing against Veganism and no investment into what you do. Zogler, like most Vegans I have met, is on the indoctrination and holier than thou bandwagon, ignoring 200,000 yrs of actual evolution and a particular macronutrient. So, do whatever you want, but don't, like Zogler, assume truth for everyone because 'your' evidence goes against 'other's' evidence. The human species has evolved and thrived on all sorts of diets, but never on one that neglects a macronutrient, and never one where plants(or fruits for that matter) were a major source of nutrient or calories. Infact that is unheard of, except in the Primate kingdom(we're not Monkey's).

Maybe the young, 6 ft whatever Altair should try eating 1800kcals of plants and fruit on a 12 hr labour shift and see how he's doing in a few weeks :D

Ciao.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Diet Advice needed.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:49 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:55 pm
Posts: 212
Vegetables are toxic? Source?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Diet Advice needed.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:02 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:33 am
Posts: 1538
Location: Czech Republic
You are only parroting what you have read.
In my experiences vegetable juices are probably the best "food" regarding nutrition - and it tastes good when you throw couple apples in also
The energy levels and clarity of thinking is amazing.
Only problem is that it is costy.
You would have to try out for yourself some stuff, but you rather defend your own shell.
Kthxbb

Also.. Most nations ate mostly grains, rice, potatoes, beans, legumes and other starchy food, in the past... So reconsider your "thousands of years of evolution"
Aaand I know personally a guy who actually eats only fruits, veggies and some nuts, and his works is basically lifting and manipulating heavy stones.. He's on that diet for like 5 years now


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Diet Advice needed.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:15 pm
Posts: 6
You are right dear fufe. Vegetables and fruits both are best food and if we drink these juices then we can get lot of health benefits. I also prefer top eat these food in my diet.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Diet Advice needed.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:15 pm
Posts: 6
Jasson wrote:
You are right dear fufe. Vegetables and fruits both are best food and if we drink these juices then we can get lot of health benefits. I also prefer top eat these food in my diet.

Diet information


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Diet Advice needed.
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 7:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 14, 2014 8:11 am
Posts: 4
Hi Altair,
To get a little bit more muscle, break your meals in small frequent meals, drink more water than routine and do dot eliminate fat entirely from your diet. Consume more proteins and avoid eating before going to bed.

_________________
Stones Sharp Accountants
Stones Sharp Accountants
Stones Sharp Accountants


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Diet Advice needed.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:55 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:08 pm
Posts: 7
Prepare more of your own meals. Cooking more meals at home can help you take charge of what you’re eating and better monitor exactly what goes into your food.
Make the right changes. When cutting back on unhealthy foods in your diet, it’s important to replace them with healthy alternatives. Replacing animal fats with vegetables fats (such as switching butter for olive oil) will make a positive difference to your health. Switching animal fats for refined carbohydrates, though (such as switching your breakfast bacon for a donut), won’t lower your risk for heart disease or improve your mood.
Simplify. Instead of being overly concerned with counting calories, think of your diet in terms of color, variety, and freshness. Focus on avoiding packaged and processed foods and opting for more fresh ingredients.
Read the labels. It’s important to be aware of what’s in your food as manufacturers often hide large amounts of sugar and salt in packaged food, even food claiming to be healthy.
Focus on how you feel after eating. This will help foster healthy new habits and tastes. The more healthy food you eat, the better you’ll feel after a meal. The more junk food you eat, the more likely you are to feel uncomfortable, nauseous, or drained of energy.
Drink plenty of water. Water helps flush our systems of waste products and toxins, yet many people go through life dehydrated—causing tiredness, low energy, and headaches. It’s common to mistake thirst for hunger, so staying well hydrated will also help you make healthier food choices.

_________________
walk in clinic brooklyn
brooklyn walk in clinic


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group