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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:57 am 
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This will probably only be of interest to fans of the Dune science fiction series of novels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(franchise) , but in addition to many of the far-reaching and holistic ideas portrayed in his books, it is uncanny how author Frank Herbert (another of my favourite minds) zeroed in on a number of female characteristics (through his fictional Bene Gesserit order: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bene_Gesserit; ignore the old hags in the original 1980s film :mrgreen: - these chicks were bred for looks and seductiveness) that are revealed on Natural Freedom, as well as the brilliant Ester Vilar and Chinweizu books:
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Breeding program
The ultimate goal of the Bene Gesserit Sisterhood, up to the end of the novel Dune, is the creation of a male Bene Gesserit they call the Kwisatz Haderach. They intend to achieve this superbeing through a massive human breeding program, which they have conducted for countless generations; using careful manipulations of relationships and breeding sisters to "collect" key genes, the Bene Gesserit have controlled and finessed bloodlines through the ages.
Although not (to my memory) depicting situations where a stable and reliable man is tricked into raising 'someone else's genes', this still represents the female's "genes first" priority. [BTW, i'm currently reading a book that puts this (and many other human failings) into perspective by describing in detail how this is simply a part of the tapestry of nature. Consequently, i'm no longer that bitter about many of the things I discovered on this site :D . Will post on this book when i've finished reading it, as it may also help others accelerate their overcoming of the post-red pill anger. MRM is sooooooo fucking fail.......]
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Avoiding direct power
The Bene Gesserit choose to use indirect methodologies to further their goals, rather than wield overt power themselves. They have noted the Taoist principle that whatever rises must fall; and so rather than taking direct control of the human race, they instead manipulate the social and political order with subtlety and insinuation, often using extraordinarily long-term stratagems spanning generations. The Bene Gesserit avoid appearing too rich or powerful, or revealing the extent of their powers, to prevent being seen as overtly responsible for the rise and fall of governments and empires, and to avoid any organized backlash. To this end, the Bene Gesserit provide some of their trained initiates as wives and concubines, and will train the daughters of noble families for a fee.[2][6]

............ In fact, when Leto meets Hwi Noree, the Ixian ambassador obviously bred and trained to charm him, he realizes "that part of her education had been conducted by the Bene Gesserit. She had their way of controlling her responses, of sensing the undertones in a conversation. He could see, however, that the Bene Gesserit overlay had been a delicate thing, never penetrating the basic sweetness of her nature."[12]
Sound familiar ;) ? Just portrayed on a much grander and ambitious scale.
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Other Memory
A Reverend Mother has access only to her female lineage in Other Memory; her male line is unavailable to her, present as a dark void that terrifies her.
:lol: Bitches can't handle space..... :lol:
Quote:
Reverend Mothers may also pass their own ego/memory combination to other Reverend Mothers at will, merely by touching foreheads. When a Reverend Mother dies in the presence of another Reverend Mother, the second will accept the ego/memory of the first to prevent the loss of the dying Reverend Mother's experience and ancestral memories. Especially when the Mother Superior perishes, it is important to take her ego/memory so that her plans and strategies may continue uninterrupted. This is first explored in Dune, when Jessica accepts the life experience of the dying Fremen Reverend Mother Ramallo. In Chapterhouse Dune, Darwi Odrade is Mother Superior, a contentious choice ratified by the fact that she was present at the previous Mother Superior's death, and has her in Other Memory; she represents the most continuous line of leadership. Under extreme conditions, a large community of Bene Gesserit will practice Extremis Progressiva, a mass sharing of ego/memories with each other to spread all the ego/memories amongst everyone; thus, if one survives, they all survive.
To me, this is a nice analogy to how Kidd!! and 'Grinus have pointed out about women being susceptible to influence from other women (and if I remember correctly, 'Grinus made the astute observation that this evolved as a necessity, since they require a sympathetic social network while pregnant). And like Kidd!! once said, chicks are like the 'Borg (Star Trek). Which leads nicely into:
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Abomination
Other Memory figures prominently in the Dune series for several reasons, one of which is that a human with access to Other Memory who has not developed a sufficiently strong ego will become possessed by a strong ancestral ego. If a Bene Gesserit undergoes the spice agony while pregnant, the fetus will also undergo the spice agony and gain access to Other Memory, becoming "pre-born." Since the fetus has no ego of its own, it is especially susceptible to being overcome by one of these ego-personalities. This is called "Abomination" by the Bene Gesserit, and abominations are always killed immediately.
In other words, this is why one day the chick is cool, the next she's nagging about 'commitment' or some such shit........
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The Voice
Bene Gesserit are trained in what they call "the Voice" — a means "to control others merely by selected tone shadings of the voice."[14] By modulating the subtleties of her voice, a Bene Gesserit can issue commands on a subconscious level, compelling obedience in others that they cannot resist, whether they are consciously aware of the attempt or not. This control can be as subtle as influencing thoughts and motivations, or as strong as forcing physical actions in the subject. To effect this, the Bene Gesserit must "register" the intended target by analyzing his or her personality and vocal patterns through observation or seemingly innocuous direct questions.[15][16] ............ The Voice may also be subtly employed in any manner of conversation, public speaking, or debate to help soothe, convince, persuade, influence, or otherwise enhance the effect of the words being spoken.

Being a manipulation of the target's subconscious mind, the Voice is of limited utility against an extremely disciplined mind, such as a Reverend Mother or a strong Mentat; if the target understands what the Voice is and how it works, and is aware that it is being used, he may resist it (like Paul Atreides when Gaius Mohiam first used it on him).
Yep, women do this shit all the time. Like when they honey coat their voices to manipulate you into doing something (that you know you shouldn't) :lol: . And I know a woman who, if this fails with her husband, she ups the volume of her voice exponentially, and adds some serious fucking thunder to it :shock: .
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Acute observation and Truthsay
Bene Gesserit are trained in "the minutiae of observation", noticing details that the common person would miss in the people and environment around them. When combined with their analytical abilities, this "hyperawareness" makes the Bene Gesserit capable of divining secrets and arriving at conclusions that are invisible to everyone else. ............. minute variations in a person's vocal inflection and body language allow a Bene Gesserit to deeply understand a person's emotional state, and manipulate it.

Bene Gesserit specifically trained as Truthsayers are able to determine whether someone is lying by analyzing their speech, body language, and physical signs like pulse and heart rate. In principle all humans have such perception, but extensive training is required to develop this latent talent to the point of great usefulness.
Being fiction, this is obviously exaggerated, but I do find women to be aware of subtleties that most men (even intellectuals) are too childish to notice. However, I think this is mostly done at a subconscious level. Incidentally, this is something that I believe Kidd!! and 'Grinus are also encouraging us to develop in ourselves.
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Sexual talents
The Bene Gesserit are notable for their extensive skill in seduction, sex and sexual imprinting. The most talented and most highly trained are known as Imprinters. Men in a position of power or future power, or those with specific qualities that the order wishes to incorporate into their breeding program, are typical targets of a Bene Gesserit imprinter. Men seduced by an imprinter are permanently affected (imprinted) by the intense sexual experience and are thereafter consciously or subconsciously favorable to the Sisterhood.

.........................
In Heretics of Dune, Reverend Mother and Imprinter Lucilla is charged with the seduction-imprinting of the Duncan Idaho ghola so that the Sisterhood may assert some control over him; he ultimately avoids her. Lucilla also mentions the hundreds of sexual positions and variations she knows. In Heretics, the Honored Matres have themselves refined this ability to such an intense level that the targeted male becomes completely enslaved. The captured Honored Matre Murbella attempts this on Duncan; his own imprinting ability, secretly conditioned into him by his Tleilaxu creators, suddenly manifests itself. Murbella and Duncan basically imprint each other, neither having complete control over the other.

An imprinter can be successfully resisted if the subject has been psychologically pre-conditioned. When the imprinter attempts to seduce the subject, it will automatically respond to the conditioning and resist, or attempt to slay her. More simply, if an imprinter is recognized they can be easily avoided.
Misses the mark here a little; I think the truth is that, in real life, this is not done by the sexual act itself, but by imagination brought about by space. The pussy that a woman makes a man wait hungrily for can become an obsession for him. But like Kidd!! says in his Pimposophies, this can be reversed. Actually, I think it works even better on women than it does on men :) .

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Missionaria Protectiva
The Bene Gesserit practice "religious engineering" through a faction called the Missionaria Protectiva, which spreads "infectious superstitions on primitive worlds, thus opening those regions to exploitation by the Bene Gesserit."[13] Collectively known as Panoplia Prophetica, these myths, prophecies, and superstitions provide the opportunity for a Bene Gesserit to later cast herself as a guide, protector, or some other figure in fulfillment of a prophecy in order to manipulate the religious subjects for protection or other purposes. These myths also exploit religion as a powerful force in human society; by controlling the particulars of religion, the Bene Gesserit have a manipulative lever on society in general.
I only included this one because of 'Grinus' quote (http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopi ... cism#p1575):
Quote:
I have lots of views on how women are pulling the strings behind things. One of the prime examples is various religions, especially Catholicism (there is a reason that historically all the main figures were men and it is not what you think it is )
By the way 'Grinus, if you're reading this, any further hints you'd be willing to give on your comment above? I'm drawing blanks on this one.....
Quote:
Spice agony
The spice agony is an ordeal in which an acolyte of the Bene Gesserit takes a poisonous Awareness Spectrum Narcotic and, by internally changing the substance and neutralizing its toxicity, awakens her inner self and the selves of all her female ancestors (called Other Memory).

Jessica endured the spice agony while pregnant with her daughter, Alia. This had a profound effect on the unborn Alia, who was consequently born a full Reverend Mother with the complete Other Memory of both her female and male ancestors. The Bene Gesserit refer to children born this way as "Abominations." Without the benefits of Bene Gesserit mental conditioning, however, this later led to Alia's downfall, as she was unable to maintain control of the other egos striving for dominance. Interestingly, the personality that eventually possessed Alia was that of the Baron Vladimir Harkonnen, Alia's grandfather, whom she murdered as a child in the events of Dune.
This one I included here for 'Grinus, in case he's reading this, since he was the one that pointed out how rites of passage are conspicuously absent in modern society. The part about Alia also brings up shades of "Heart Of Darkness", which I gave my views on here: http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopi ... son#p26989

And from http://web.archive.org/web/200807312157 ... erit.shtml, we get this shit:
Quote:
These are illusions of popular history which a successful religion must promote: Evil men never prosper; only the brave deserve the fair; honesty is the best policy; actions speak louder than words; virtue always triumphs; a good deed is its own reward; any bad human can be reformed; religious talismans protect one from demon possession; only females understand the ancient mysteries; the rich are doomed to unhappiness.
From the Instruction Manual: Missionaria Protectiva
Children of Dune
and
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Those who would repeat the past must control the teaching of history.
Bene Gesserit Coda
Chapterhouse: Dune
Sugar and Spice ;) . Nuff said.
and this one's actually pretty cool
Quote:
Confine yourself to observing and you always miss the point of your life. The object can be stated this way: Live the best life you can. Life is a game whose rules you learn if you leap into it and play it to the hilt. Otherwise, you are caught off balance, continually surprised by the shifting play. Non-players often whine and complain that luck always passes them by. They refuse to see that they can create some of their own luck.
Darwi Odrade
Chapterhouse: Dune
While i'm on the subject, a couple nice things I always liked about these chicks, despite their manipulative ways:
Quote:
Litany against fear
The litany against fear is an incantation used by the Bene Gesserit throughout the series to focus their minds and calm themselves in times of peril. The litany is as follows:

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.
[2]
This is some legendary shit; even some people who never read these books know this saying........

And 'Grinus (and possibly Flow and Kidd!!), if they somehow happen to be reading this long-ass thesis, might get a kick out of the following, so i'll include it:
Quote:
Simulflow
Bene Gesserit also have the ability to practice simulflow, literally the simultaneous flow of several threads of consciousness at any given time; mental multitasking, as it were. The combination of simulflow with their analytical abilities and Other Memory are responsible for the frightening intelligence of the average Bene Gesserit.

Prana-bindu training and the weirding way
The Bene Gesserit develop their physical abilities as well as their mental abilities. A trained Sister has full control over each muscle in her body through training known as prana-bindu. This allows her to bend the last joint in her little toe while remaining otherwise motionless, bend and contort her body in ways that most would consider impossible, or put a remarkable amount of force behind a physical blow. The mental part of prana-bindu, or prana-nervature (prana stands for breath, bindu stands for musculature) is the precise control of the totality of nerves in the human body. In Dune, Reverend Mother Mohiam tests Paul with a nerve induction device ("the box") that causes the sensation of intense pain. Paul learns that he is not the only one to have tried it, but is perhaps specially resistant; this conversation points to a widespread use of it as a tool among the Bene Gesserit to measure self control, nerve control, and as Mohiam puts it, crisis and observation.

Unarmed attacks are part of the specialized martial art called the weirding way, which incorporates the prana-bindu methods of optimized muscle control, which enable one to deliver powerful blows and to move with extreme precision and speed. The basic principle behind the weirding way is that, as Farad'n Corrino says, "My mind affects my reality." A user of the weirding way has to know that the action he or she "wants" to perform has already been performed. For example, to imagine oneself behind an opponent at the current moment in time; when trained well, this knowledge will place you at the spot desired. As the art's prana bindu incorporation allows even small attacks to do massive damage, weirding way combat is to the death.

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"I will not grow in the light, until I pass through the darkest caverns of my heart..."

"Temet Nosce"


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:17 am 
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Interesting read that brought some movement to my facial musculature.

Bears re-reading a few times. Had not explored the books before, have seen the movie and it struck loads of chords back then from memory, might have to dig it out and give it a watch.

Also brought to mind this:
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"The Reverend Mother must combine the seductive wiles of a courtesan with the untouchable majesty of a virgin goddess, holding these attributes in tension so long as the powers of her youth endure. For when youth and beauty have gone, she will find that the place-between, once occupied by tension, has become a wellspring of cunning and resourcefulness."

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:00 am 
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Dune marked as to watch or to read, check !!

I'll hijack this thread a bit with two quotes I found :

"There are two types of love: physical and moral. Physical love is merely sexual desire, whereas moral love is romantic attachment, designed to make women dominant over men. Quarrels and disorders come from romantic love, which becomes dangerous only in society. "
JJ Rousseau 'Discourse on Inequality: Part One'

"145. Comparing man and woman generally, one may say that woman would not have the genius for adornment, if she had not the instinct for the SECONDARY role."
Nietzsche 'Beyond good and evil ch 4'

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:56 am 
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@ 'Grinus: glad it was of use to you.
peregrinus wrote:
Also brought to mind this:
Quote:
"The Reverend Mother must combine the seductive wiles of a courtesan with the untouchable majesty of a virgin goddess, holding these attributes in tension so long as the powers of her youth endure. For when youth and beauty have gone, she will find that the place-between, once occupied by tension, has become a wellspring of cunning and resourcefulness."
Very true. I missed this, thanks for bringing it up. This brings to mind Freud's "Madonna/Whore Complex". And the tension resolving into a wellspring of cunning and resourcefulness is a very worthwhile point to ponder.

@ GoldenBoy: not a hijack at all. Quite pertinent, both quotes. Dammit though, with the Nietzsche quote you've also reminded me that one of these days I gotta get around to reading 'Beyond good and evil ', if only for the line "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." :D

Anyway, if you ever consider reading the books (6 books in all from the original series): they are written slightly cryptically, contain a lot of far-reaching ideas, and are extremely rewarding. Also, Arthur C. Clarke (author of the book/Stanley Kubrick film 2001) once commented that the only thing comparable he ever read in terms of scope and a completely self-contained fictional universe was "Lord Of The Rings". In fact, in my opinion the Dune series actually surpasses it in this regard. Extremely heavy reading , but well worth it. BUT BE WARNED: The 6th book ended with one fuck of a cliffhanger, and the author died shortly after it was published. His son and another author named Kevin J. Anderson completed it (Edit: ie completed the follow-up books) using his notes, but completely ballsed it up.

If you guys would prefer to watch the film of the first book, (directed by David Lynch if I remember correctly), bear in mind that the SciFi network also did a miniseries based on the second and third novels, which I remember being quite well done (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Her ... en_of_Dune). It seems they also did another miniseries before this based on the first novel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Herbert%27s_Dune), but I never saw that one.

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"I will not grow in the light, until I pass through the darkest caverns of my heart..."

"Temet Nosce"


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:01 pm 
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Nice timing ;-) I'm just finishing God Emperor right now.

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Laying on the floor in a pool of blood and cum
My demons lay beside as I kiss them one by one
Then on that day I met a force that nothing will compare
I was born the son of evil when I fuck the devil there!


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