Natural Freedom

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/derr ... /episode-3 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derren_Bro ... .282012.29

Derren Brown: Fear And Faith, Channel 4 (UK) Trailer, (40") - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_9YOnmU4LQ

Derren Brown Fear And Faith Episode 1 P1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr8AlTf3EQM

Derren Brown Fear And Faith Episode 1 P2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKm3Ii0cAjc

Derren Brown Fear And Faith Episode 1 P3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijh45Hpw6FM

Derren Brown Fear And Faith Episode 1 P4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pplr3hdy4XU

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.

Amazing! Thanks for posting 'G.

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The honey doesn't chase the bee.

A wise man once said "I find that a duck's opinion of me is influenced by whether or not I have bread."

I'm starting to think why the Don Juan de Marco movie was recomended by TheKidd!

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GMST

Amazing. Thanks for bringing it up.

"I really don't know what it is you're giving us, but I think it should be mandatory"

Fighting fire with fire, beautiful.


Couple of things I wonder :

- What if Nick's confidence went too far and got into the fight instead of helping his friends ...
- What if Dan when on the bridge went "I'm the king of the world" ...
- What if Katie was a bad singer and people insulted her on the street.
- What must have gone through her head when she woke up after the snap-induction ...
- Would the snap-induction work on me ?
- Am I the only one who preferred her without makeup ?
- How did they know that "Nina Simone - I'm feeling good" is my fav track of the moment ...

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"The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn."
Alvin Toffler

I saw that, I'm looking forward to next weeks one about god. I also enjoyed the Apocalypse one!

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Don't be sexist, bitches hate that.

Further evidence for the placebo effect, certainly interesting to watch.

In the past, some researchers have questioned even the existence of the phenomenon. But now it is a valid phenomenon, as has been established by experimental methods. There have been changes in brain activity as a result of implementing a sham treatment.

The most accepted view states that the placebo effect occurs because the patient believes in the drug, treatment or therapist. After the sham treatment, the brain of the patient causes changes in the functioning of other organs, resulting in improvement. That is, the patient expects to feel better and it happens. The mechanisms of the effects are not fully understood. But the fact that specific effects are displayed does not mean that the illness or symptoms of the individual were - in any sense - false. The existence of the placebo effect is another evidence of the mind-body link. According to some research data, the phenomenon can be partly attributed to the release of endorphins in the brain. These substances are natural painkillers. But, surely, the underlying mechanisms are more complex, since such effects arise not only in relation to the limitation of pain.

The placebo effect has one other obvious explanation, which is not touched by the experts: The fact that the human brain has a self-healing ability, when it comes to many diseases, as long as it is properly fed and convincingly reinforced to utilize it. We could interpret Jesus' words "Your faith has saved you" as "It is your faith that really saved you and not me". You heal by yourself, believing it can be done. There are modern cases of cancer patients, in which cancer mysteriously "disappeared". Is our brain therefore a potential holistic therapist?

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The opposite of courage in our society is not cowardice, it's conformity.

Looks like they've just been given space to let go of their fears
Or Derren says it better when he's sitting on the bridge with dude "You just gave vourself permission, not to worry about it anymore"

I have researched and learned hypnosis, and I think that the placebo effect is the same as hypnosis. Both use the suggestion effect, and a similar method; "On the count of 3 you will feel better about X" vs "When you take this pill you will feel better about X".
Or, whatever is behind the expectation changes and therefore the expectation also changes. As far as I remember the expectancy model of the suggestion effect has been looked at and although it is a very good model, it does not explain everything.
I have heard this sort of thing and thought about it a lot, and I believe that physiological changes due to suggestion are quite limited, and that there were other things going on in those miracle patients.



Though the suggestion effect is powerful, I do not think self-hypnosis or placebo is all that useful. It only would be useful as a tool for your ego to gain more control over yourself.

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You cannot win a fight against yourself.

Very few who profess the Christian faith seem to recognise this. (I am not assuming you are a Christian, and neither am I, just pointing out an observation in my life).

"Your faith has made you whole. Go in peace, and tell no one." I cannot remember where, but I have seen this last highlighted bit somewhere: after healing yourself, do you really need to brag to a steak-eater about it, only for them to tell you it can't be done, thereby instilling doubts in you and reversing the cure?

"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

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"I will not grow in the light, until I pass through the darkest caverns of my heart..."

"Temet Nosce"

Memo to self: must remember this next time I consider pulling someone out of the Matrix.

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"I will not grow in the light, until I pass through the darkest caverns of my heart..."

"Temet Nosce"

What about "God helps those who help themselves" ...

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"The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn."
Alvin Toffler

I found that even when I'm expecting to be helped, doesn't show up.
Only when I really let go of that expectance, and be ok as it is, sweet shit happens (and I don't even care anymore)

God or whatever the über shit it is, gives you always what you need not what you want. Thus the ultimate pimp, and a funny one.

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GMST

I really like this. Really really do.

Why don't we add the final ingredient that totally blows up the chemistry set? What if your ambitions and desires are witheld from you by life because what you really NEED is to let them go? What if you need to let them go because whatever internal lack you feel when you don't have what you desire NEEDS to be filled, not with the accomplishment of your desire, but with YOU? What if once you thusly come to terms with your internal lack, you are then in a better position (and mindset) to use your accomplishments for the betterment of humanity, not for the usual cliches like world peace, etc. (which while noble, tend to ring a little hollow), but to simply encourage others to free their minds as you have now done? (What if this eventually could conceivably bring about all these noble cliches that are so elusive in a more natural and therefore more lasting way?) What if at this point, life no longer witholds the desire in question because you are now ready to do what life NEEDS you to do with that desire, as opposed to what you WANT to do?

What if women are not attracted to you when you place your priority on getting them (I know this thread is not about women, but bear with me - there is a method to my madness) because they are unconsciously following a fundamental law of nature that dictates that they cannot successfully feed a WANT, only a NEED, and that we cannot successfuly accomplish our WANTS, only our NEEDS? What if this fundamental law applies both to men and women?

What if this fundamental law permeats ALL facets of life, ALL interactions, ALL successes, ALL failures, etc.? What if all the unhappiness, isolation, violence, and vindictiveness through the entire world today (and indeed throughout all of human history) is because of our pursuing our WANTS rather than our NEEDS?

What if, instead of "God or whatever the über shit it is" ( thanks for that one, Dali) directing all of this, it is our unconcious minds interacting with one another? Like how CG Jung (my latest obsession ) observed that a person who is spoiled by their parents will have nightmares that portray the parents as villians, suggesting that the unconscious mind self-regulates in a way that compensates for what we (consciously) WANT with what we (unconsciously) NEED?

What if our unconscious minds simply function like "God or whatever the über shit it is"? What if they are one and the same?

What if, in this context, the word NEED is a paradox?

Welcome to Hooeyville.

I DO NOT advocate the formation of the Church of the Righteous All-Seeing Pimp. We have enough religions as it is. Count me out....

Thread hijack over, with sincere apologies.

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"I will not grow in the light, until I pass through the darkest caverns of my heart..."

"Temet Nosce"

If the person has interest, and they see you are different, they will ask questions and tell you their interest in it

Exactly. Another variation on "Build it, and they will come."

Or "Those that have ears, let them hear."

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"I will not grow in the light, until I pass through the darkest caverns of my heart..."

"Temet Nosce"

Follow up to my last post:

Jesus didn't say: "Your faith in Me, God or Christianity has saved/healed you" (http://bible.cc/mark/10-52.htm). This would imply that he was selective in who he saved (believers or not).

Also, he didn't clarify which faith saved people. Faith in religion or faith in the ability of humans to do wonders?

He probably meant that the very power of our mind, when it truly believes there is a way of salvation, is what saves. Otherwise, why didn't he state: "I have saved you, through the power of my Father"?

This interpretation of Jesus' words, that is the very power of the ill forced cure, certainly requires irreligion and open-mindedness.

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The opposite of courage in our society is not cowardice, it's conformity.

Amen.

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"I will not grow in the light, until I pass through the darkest caverns of my heart..."

"Temet Nosce"

Reading this again it appears I totally missed the point of this thread. It wasn't about placebo, it was about how the placebo helped those people. Those people were trying to bend the spoon, and when the placebo let them believe the spoon did not exist they then found that the spoon bended for them.

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You cannot win a fight against yourself.

I loved your post roark.
Hugh Macleod

Thanks, diego. Just postulating, really. But it is a pretty cool way to look at it.

I have, for a long time, thought along these and similar lines, but Dali's post sent my mind into hyperdrive. It's interesting how others can inspire me to pursue trains of thought that, while totally familiar to me and true to who I am, I would never have pursued in that exact direction by myself...... This still cracks me up. But also blows my mind at the same time.....

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"I will not grow in the light, until I pass through the darkest caverns of my heart..."

"Temet Nosce"