Natural Freedom

Word!

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"I will not grow in the light, until I pass through the darkest caverns of my heart..."

"Temet Nosce"

Old thread I know, and not necessarily aimed at Altair, but my experience with verbal combat is thus;

I love verbal combat; Basically I agree with Altair that the game is fun and well worth playing - but, only when you're focused on the fun of the interaction between TWO PEOPLE and not on the win. Also the bitch has to be worth jousting with.

The difference comes with how you manage it. Sometimes I like to sit back on the counter, wait until they cede possession through some sloppy play then devastate with a swift, direct counter. Or other times I like to control possession, pass the ball around quickly while they chase it around the pitch and wear themselves out, opening themselves up to a defensive mistake. People who don't watch football(soccer) may not understand that analogy.

So, in that way it's not a waste of time at all. Where I agree with the others is that the same principles still apply(Kidd/retaliate not initiate), and with Star in that this wasn't a bitch worth sparring with since all she wanted was ego validation.

Compared to the epic verbal jousting battle I'm engaged in at the moment, which is laced with FUN, danger, sophisticated power plays, sexual innuendo and is now at the point where she's asking me to fuck her every which way from sunday(and in public places), I'd say it was pointless. Atleast have fun. Infact have fun whether you choose to play or not.

Yes!!! I'm glad you said this. This is the key to consistently successful and satisfying verbal jousting - when you're focused on the enjoyment and there's no thought of winners or losers involved.....

Ironically, i've also noticed that the more i'm in this state, the more likely I am to gain the upper hand (whoever she is) - it's the magic of non-attachment (or letting go) at work, I guess. And because it's done in this spirit, she ENJOYS submitting. The occasional blushes and PLEASURABLY submissive looks are priceless.....

I verbal-joust with females of ALL ages (even old women - they can be real fun too ), and it's fun. So much fun. I really have to hand it to females in this regard - they are SO much better than dudes at this. Some guys take themselves waaaaay to seriously to do this in an enjoyable way.

Mind you, there are guys who are cool to poke fun with as well. And these are the guys who I usually end up hanging out with.
Yep - occasionally i'll come across one that plays aggressively to win - no thought to enjoyment whatsoever. Once I realise this, I exit (even if it means conceding). Now I think about it, there's no need to pissed with them either:
- I'm sure my gut would've been screaming at me "Stay away from that bitch!", so if I didn't listen to it or notice it, I only have myself to blame.
- Bitches like this are doing me a favour, letting me know that they're not worth my time or consideration.

Distinction: here i'm not referring to chicks who have a good string of comebacks; those are just better than I am . And the rare ones i've met like this have been pretty cool about it.

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"I will not grow in the light, until I pass through the darkest caverns of my heart..."

"Temet Nosce"

Leo, I'm curious if you've laid down the contract with this girl.

She's someone new I'm meeting in 3 weeks for tea and sex -Since she's long distance I haven't felt the need to drown the interaction with contract negotiations. It hasn't been necessary yet IMO. That may have been different had we lived in the same vicinity.

Though I'm curious where you're going with this, ahk.

This is in stark contrast to my ex-gf, who is crawling back to me for emotional support under the guise of sex. I've definitely laid down the contract to her, and there's no room for 11th hr negotiations since I could walk away without having lost a thing. Might do a thread about that one

Y'know, sometimes the ones who play hard to win can actually be the most fun, if only to see them bought down a few notches

But yeah, women are generally much more comfortable in this regard - but remember, they've been doing it since they could talk, or even before. I see it ALL the time. Doesn't matter if they are 3, 13, 23 or 43. They're behavioural geniuses in terms of instinctively knowing how to get what they want through exploitation our emotions. Altair, being a man, needed to control, needed to win. I bet that bitch in his original post knew this. That's actually one of the things I respect women for. Buuut, everything has a chink it's armour. I always say Women make the best politicians, because Men haven't learnt how to respect them except in a post-Feminist pussy worship way.

As for verbal combat, I admit I have ceded a little bit of possession with the example above. She's got one eye on my ball. she hasn't stolen it yet, but I think she senses an opportunity. My weakness is that I love to know what people want, and why. I'm also quite poetic, so combined this tends to cause me to over-elaborate at times and neglect that less is more. Recognising mistakes is part of the learning I guess.

As Kidd wrote earlier, initiate radio silence.

Spaceman, if you can identify the symptoms of the problem, how is it that you can't fix them?
isn't the above a hint that you need to at least mix it up a bit? you need to learn to play with words, how to say them with effect and how to contort them.

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"I'd rather have no bitch than a half a bitch" Iceberg Slim

by saying "my whole life" are you also implying that you still live your life based on False Evidence Appearing Real?

what you need to do is get out of that comfy box that you've built and Face Everthing And Rise!

Self Acceptance is one glorious thing. if the world turns it's back on you , you still have to live with yourself.

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"I'd rather have no bitch than a half a bitch" Iceberg Slim

Good for you spaceman for getting it under your eye
+honesty.

Worst case scenario? (Staying lazy, as you put it...?)

Now, stiffness? Can be used as leverage: (25 seconds clip)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNd1OQeQhjs

The thing is, you don´t owe anyone any explanations
or behaviors.

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Was just confirming my picture of reality.

Always good to have a contract before getting down to business, imo. Even if it means going against the flow.

I could, yes. I could post an email transaction, or try and remember a conversation I had, but what would be the point of that?

It's just about relaxation, observation and reaction.

"Leo and Roark, would you mind posting an example of a verbal joust dialog, whether one that actually took place or one made up? I'm curious to see what it looks like. A YouTube video would be great as well. It seems that people try to do this with me and I respond seriously and matter of factly. I can see in their expression and body language that this just kills any fun that were to be had."

In my experience its better to do what ever it is you want. When i first started pickup i had so many ideas and so many things to explore. It sucked. I got turned down so many times. My natural personality started to form, or a more confident and "knowingness" started to show itself from out of the dark and pain it came. Now its like im unstoppable i feel so much stronger. Everything i believed when i was a kid is still with me. With a few things that needed to be crosschecked for lack of a better word. "Jousting" i know exactly what it is, i come from jousting. To be honest i hate it. I dont care for it. I work around it all the time. You dont have to joust. Let other people joust. You do what you want to do.

If your in an environment, most likely any environment the moment you walk in the environment is not YOU unless you make it you. When jousting happens thats apart of life and it happens all the time, happens more than saying your best friends name during an angry conversation. You can change things, like how everybody discusses on here with regards to being in the matrix. You will learn how to form ideas for your benefit that will increase your level of "inner confidence"during any interaction and i mean any. You can be talking to a gorilla and hopefully you will get somewhere with the man. For me like i just said that was done by doing cold approach pickup hundreds of times.... So do what you want to do, you may hate it, then finally you will reach a peak where you feel like you can do whatever you want regardless of the results. Then you can bend spoons hahahahaahahahahahahah Once you bend the spoons you know the results. Things may change but you will know the reason why. You wont be so confused or flustered over something that is so pitiful in the first place. You will know whats number 1 on your list and whats number 2. Number 3 and 4 have no relevance. Thats a pretty dam good life.

I agree Ratchet. It's not as though anyone has to have 'this skill or that skill' in order to get by. It's better to do what is congruent with your inner life AT THAT MOMENT.

Spaceman needs to loosen up a little though, and that's the issue, rather than him wanting to know how to do 'verbal combat'.

I do it when I feel like it, when it's congruent. I might also say absolutely nothing because that's congruent. Problem is people just want to talk all the time.

Leo that is my main problem. People that want to talk but i dont want to(during that moment in time). Whenever i go out im going to make sure that im going to do what ever it is i want(outside of my job). Problem comes when you dont start off this way with the people you know. It is beyond crucial to finish how you start. ( Everyday im with my co-workers we have one guy that drives me nuts, says absolutely nothing but says it with Embrace. Sounds like im off the wagon right ? No, because while he is doing this he is just putting on an act. Everyone knows. Nobody says anything. When you are aware of your surroundings, you will also notice people encouraging the things you do that are negative. If you dont you can get spun in "there" web and most likely never come out, unless you are introspective, read or care alittle bit about yourself. Perfect example ( im doing the dancing monkey bc i enjoy it, people "happen" to be laughing not bc i "necessarily" want them to. 2 seconds later, the people say do it again ! All with there beautiful smiles OOO so precious. Now im caught in the 'HABBIT" of "THERE" web. Wow how fast that happens. Stone FACE NOW. !! No more dancing monkey unless i choose to dance monkey. Just the other night i did something funny. This guy says do it again, but i dont want to, he says do it again, i say no and just sit down.

If people look at you funny, take it as a sign that you are on the right path. Spaceman when you were nervous, people noticed right ? When you were relaxed you were complimented by how relaxed you were. Do you get nervous when you around people ? Nobody cares. Fuck what they think. The same people you are nervous about will do Everything in there power to knock you off your band wagon when you are going your most strongest. Fuck that. How many times have you been dissed ? I remember back in the day and still to this day with some degree, i say things that dont make any sense. People cant understand it. Do i proceed ? Ofcourse i do, i lighten the load on them, but i still proceed. No one tells me what i can and can not do. Pain is my greatest friend. Strength is my greatest ally.

The bucket of crabs theory/phenomenon? Must be.

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Definitely. As soon as your getting out they are pulling you in. The smart one on the other hand pulls you in while you already in. "What you dont know it cant hurt you." That saying does not go hand and hand with this. This will hurt, in the long run. Your own friend can be using you. Look at everything. See everything. Smell, breathe look into everything you see. Ask questions and don't stop until you get answers and more answers. Never stop. Judge everything, thats ok, its human nature, then analyze, break it down into smaller parts, come to a conclusion.

Eventually you will have to come to a conclusion. Something you will have to stick with. Its who you are now, you Identify yourself with it. Thats where all your greatest strength comes from. What do you speak from ?

You guys take it too seriously

Spaceman - where does this social anxiety come from? It's not ''you''. It's just a behaviour you have adopted, nothing more. I swear, when people here say become you own best friend, warts and all, they are right. It just seems to solve so much.