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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 6:54 pm 
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GoldenBoy wrote: *
Message sent to the people participating on the forum.
Sorry if I missed you. :D

Her point of view is quite illuminating. Really interesting book.

Thanks for the Bravo Grinus :ugeek:
Oh nice, thanks man 8-)

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A truly powerful Man jealously guards his most precious resources; his independence and his ability to maneuver. True power isn’t controlling others, but the degree to which you control the course of your own life and your own choices. -Rational Male


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 12:37 am 
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rant wrote: *
Altair wrote:
The commonality behind all of their movements is that they immediately try to press me for commitment that they've done nothing to deserve, which of course gets met with a inward lol. The thing is that even the not as attractive ones stick to their guns on this.

What do they in this case to press you to commit, are they asking you to marriage them?, or some kind of social agreement?.

How do they do it?, on paper?, verbally?, physically?
No answer, i guees some questions are worth being answered others are not.


peregrinus wrote: *
rant wrote: *
how does commitment can help to attain the best genes.?.
Commitment per se does not directly help to attain the best genes. It does vastly improve the chances of those genes surviving and prospering, once captured.

They could use blood or semen samples, No?.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 9:13 am 
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rant wrote: *
rant wrote: *
Altair wrote:
The commonality behind all of their movements is that they immediately try to press me for commitment that they've done nothing to deserve, which of course gets met with a inward lol. The thing is that even the not as attractive ones stick to their guns on this.
What do they in this case to press you to commit, are they asking you to marriage them?, or some kind of social agreement?.

How do they do it?, on paper?, verbally?, physically?
No answer, i guees some questions are worth being answered others are not.
I was leaving that one for altair, so he could answer from the experience he was discussing.

There are many different ways they can do this (press for commitment). Some overt, some covert. Also with this, try not to jump as far as marriage, to start with this will be on a micro level, then build.. Sometimes it can be nuclear from the start, I find more often it builds up.

Think of them throwing bait in front of you (verbal, physical, textmsg, social media etc), to see if you will bite. Too see if you will offer commitment (of any type).

Another other way I could say it is they poke you to see what your level of investment in them is. Also to see if you will and if so how easily you submit to her frame, or not. This is also where the so called 'shit tests' come in, they are that but they are also much more.

It is a dance and they want to work out who is leading the dance, is it you, are you following, are you letting her do the leading.

do you believe your value is above or below hers.
rant wrote: *
peregrinus wrote: *
rant wrote: *
how does commitment can help to attain the best genes.?.
Commitment per se does not directly help to attain the best genes. It does vastly improve the chances of those genes surviving and prospering, once captured.
They could use blood or semen samples, No?.
They could, for the genes.

If you ask more directed questions, you may get a more complete answer or nudge.

This has prompted a thought.. Surely it would counterproductive to try and secure commitment from the best gene supplier., if it is purely for genes, obtaining them is enough. Given the competition amongst the females for them and the mindset (indicated by numerous writings) of that person.

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 8:52 pm 
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peregrinus wrote: *
rant wrote: *
rant wrote: *
What do they in this case to press you to commit, are they asking you to marriage them?, or some kind of social agreement?.

How do they do it?, on paper?, verbally?, physically?
No answer, i guees some questions are worth being answered others are not.
I was leaving that one for altair, so he could answer from the experience he was discussing.

There are many different ways they can do this (press for commitment). Some overt, some covert. Also with this, try not to jump as far as marriage, to start with this will be on a micro level, then build.. Sometimes it can be nuclear from the start, I find more often it builds up.

Think of them throwing bait in front of you (verbal, physical, textmsg, social media etc), to see if you will bite. Too see if you will offer commitment (of any type).

Another other way I could say it is they poke you to see what your level of investment in them is. Also to see if you will and if so how easily you submit to her frame, or not. This is also where the so called 'shit tests' come in, they are that but they are also much more.

It is a dance and they want to work out who is leading the dance, is it you, are you following, are you letting her do the leading.

do you believe your value is above or below hers.
rant wrote: *
peregrinus wrote: *
Commitment per se does not directly help to attain the best genes. It does vastly improve the chances of those genes surviving and prospering, once captured.
They could use blood or semen samples, No?.
They could, for the genes.

If you ask more directed questions, you may get a more complete answer or nudge.

This has prompted a thought.. Surely it would counterproductive to try and secure commitment from the best gene supplier., if it is purely for genes, obtaining them is enough. Given the competition amongst the females for them and the mindset (indicated by numerous writings) of that person.
Oh oops I thought the answer was in the post.

To add to peregrinus, I would say commitment is any abandonment to the flow of the situation, no matter how small. They use "bait" to determine in which way they can redirect you. To commit is to be static, you're consciously holding a position that doesn't fit reality. It's like when water gets seperated from the river. It goes into little puddles to dry up.

Bait can be anything, that lulls you into a obligated routine. It could be as simple as training you to pick a seat beside them. If you begin to feel guilty about not doing something, then they have got through your defenses.

Where this plays in is that I am outnumbered and their games are too sophisticated for me to possibly catch them all. It's not 30 of them to one of me I have no idea the exact number, but a suspicous number of their friends seem to already know my name whenever we bump paths and I introduce myself.

Their network functions on accurate information, certain interactions like sending a middle value girls are effectively clever double binds. Which ever path I chooses I reveal information others are a stab in the dark for them as long as I don't react. They win when they have enough information to effectively profile how I tick ( the box and label)

The other way to get around this is to have unpredictable movements, maybe I pay attention to a girl that is lower value than another, or pay attention for a little and then don't. Maybe I let them see a feigned weakness so they expend a lot of mental effort trying to discern how to exploit a weakness that doesn't exist.

Every time I engage I run the risk of them getting enough information to determine how I tick though. Especially given how many people are likely trying to figure it out.

I'm going to so completely meditate through my emotions, and thoughts that I will effectively be broadcasting 0 information to them. There's a species in the wheel of time series that have cloaks that never ripple or move when the wind blows them, they are completely still. Mentally that's how I see it.

As of now they are one, my counter strategy is split their "forces"

The pinnacle of strategy approaches the formless: if it is formless, then even the deepest spy cannot discern it nor the wisest make plans against it. - Sun Tzu

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A truly powerful Man jealously guards his most precious resources; his independence and his ability to maneuver. True power isn’t controlling others, but the degree to which you control the course of your own life and your own choices. -Rational Male


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:02 pm 
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One phrase I hear repeated by different women is : I don't know what you want.

There is a lot in that simple phrase.

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 3:56 pm 
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peregrinus wrote: *
One phrase I hear repeated by different women is : I don't know what you want.

There is a lot in that simple phrase.
Said to you or men in general ?


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 4:58 pm 
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I'll continue with Patrice quotes. This book is very quotable and I'm making an effort to put just what I believe has the most value.
Quote:
Everyone wants to feel genuine love. I can count on one hand in ten years how many times Patrice actually told me he
loved me. But the actions in which he showed me how much he loved me were countless and never ending. He said to
me one day when I complained about not hearing the words I love you often enough, “You have had many guys in your
life tell you that they love you, but you still have no clue what love is. Do you want me to say I love you, or show you what love
really is? Pick one.”
I picked show me. He was right. I had no clue what love was, nor did I know what true happiness
was in a relationship. Patrice refused to live by rules and standards.

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By searching first and posting questions only if you find no answers, everyone will be much happier
No matter HOW smart you think you ARE, there will ALWAYS be somebody who is smarter than you. So never underestimate people.


Fravia+


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 5:24 pm 
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Quote:
"I had to figure out a way to make myself happy, and that's not to lie." -Patrice O’Neal
I suggest a thread about the book GB.. to give it some room

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 5:39 pm 
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peregrinus wrote: *
Quote:
"I had to figure out a way to make myself happy, and that's not to lie." -Patrice O’Neal
I suggest a thread about the book GB.. to give it some room
So you (almost) finished the book ? Sheeeet ! Okay Am creating the thread now then :ugeek:

PS : Yeh sorry for spamming this thread btw :twisted: :roll: [Thanks for the thought - Grinus]

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By searching first and posting questions only if you find no answers, everyone will be much happier
No matter HOW smart you think you ARE, there will ALWAYS be somebody who is smarter than you. So never underestimate people.


Fravia+


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:55 am 
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Altair wrote: *
To add to peregrinus, I would say commitment is any abandonment to the flow of the situation, no matter how small. They use "bait" to determine in which way they can redirect you. To commit is to be static, you're consciously holding a position that doesn't fit reality. It's like when water gets seperated from the river. It goes into little puddles to dry up.

Bait can be anything, that lulls you into a obligated routine. It could be as simple as training you to pick a seat beside them. If you begin to feel guilty about not doing something, then they have got through your defenses.
I have found myself re-reading this a few times. Really nice way of putting it.
Altair wrote: *
Where this plays in is that I am outnumbered and their games are too sophisticated for me to possibly catch them all. It's not 30 of them to one of me I have no idea the exact number, but a suspicous number of their friends seem to already know my name whenever we bump paths and I introduce myself.
What is it that is so puzzling about you that it takes so many of them to figure it out? To some degree this could be taken to mean that on their own they are not capable.

Treat them all the same, even the lower or middle ones, especially the high ones and see how they react to that.

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 1:32 am 
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peregrinus wrote: *
I have found myself re-reading this a few times. Really nice way of putting it.
Thanks, I've been re listening to the 50th law and it made me think of this.
peregrinus wrote: *
What is it that is so puzzling about you that it takes so many of them to figure it out? To some degree this could be taken to mean that on their own they are not capable.

Treat them all the same, even the lower or middle ones, especially the high ones and see how they react to that.
I tend to do the opposite of what they really expect. I give the most attractive ones the least amount of attention, because I expect them to try to turn it against me. The others are usually good although occasionally they will try to take advantage of my kindness.

Alone or together they would never have enough game to actually beat me on any of the levels that really matter. The problem is in if they think they have figured me out even if they hadn't they won't raise the white flag the way I want them to. I need them to break rank without that we'll just end in a stalemate. Or a victory I suppose depending on how you look at it, most wouldn't be able to retain ball possession at all.

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A truly powerful Man jealously guards his most precious resources; his independence and his ability to maneuver. True power isn’t controlling others, but the degree to which you control the course of your own life and your own choices. -Rational Male


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 5:07 pm 
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Altair wrote: *
I tend to do the opposite of what they really expect. I give the most attractive ones the least amount of attention, because I expect them to try to turn it against me.
Sounds like a plan :)
Altair wrote: *
The others are usually good although occasionally they will try to take advantage of my kindness.
It is fun when they do that, and try to take it further and further. Not realising what it is and instead thinking it is something they can take advantage of.

The well does have a bottom, it is not an bottomless pit of water.
Altair wrote: *
The problem is in if they think they have figured me out even if they hadn't they won't raise the white flag the way I want them to.
Patience.... They are too busy trying to get you to raise the white flag to realise the game is not being played that way.
Altair wrote: *
I need them to break rank without that we'll just end in a stalemate. Or a victory I suppose depending on how you look at it, most wouldn't be able to retain ball possession at all.
They will, patience...

Your actions will educate them more than any words can.

There is a synchronicity here, as I have been thinking about white flags and submission after the last few posts... commitment definitely is the wrong word... which is another problem..

Submission of frame.

_________________
In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 6:10 pm 
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peregrinus wrote: *


It is a dance and they want to work out who is leading the dance,

do you believe your value is above or below hers.
Altair wrote: *

I tend to do the opposite of what they really expect.
Apparently actions do have an effect on genetics.



peregrinus wrote: *
Altair wrote: *
To add to peregrinus, I would say commitment is any abandonment to the flow of the situation, no matter how small. They use "bait" to determine in which way they can redirect you. To commit is to be static, you're consciously holding a position that doesn't fit reality. It's like when water gets seperated from the river. It goes into little puddles to dry up.

Bait can be anything, that lulls you into a obligated routine. It could be as simple as training you to pick a seat beside them. If you begin to feel guilty about not doing something, then they have got through your defenses.
I have found myself re-reading this a few times. Really nice way of putting it.
Quote:
But I view every action including commitment as window dressing to the goal of getting the best genes possible.

How can this be proof a natural mating ritual?


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 10:47 pm 
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rant wrote: *

Apparently actions do have an effect on genetics.

Yeah, actually the foods that you eat and the actions you take through life shape the quality of the genes you will pass on. It's called epigenetics, they are not static, they change with you.

_________________
A truly powerful Man jealously guards his most precious resources; his independence and his ability to maneuver. True power isn’t controlling others, but the degree to which you control the course of your own life and your own choices. -Rational Male


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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 1:56 am 
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peregrinus wrote:
If there is value and it is given without commitment, is commitment then required?
Commitment would probably be required from the person who is attached to the value. I'm thinking about if someone wasn't attached/dependent on the value, then why would they seek commitment? It would only weigh them down.

peregrinus wrote:
Get men to understand their value and value themselves and this discussion takes on a different note, with the same rules and boundaries but entirely different results.

-

females do not need or require a male to solely commit to them, all they need is to know that their needs for value are being fulfilled and where that value is coming from *now*.
Yeah, men would shift from "hoping to be chosen" to becoming more of "the choosers".

To the second part of this quote - it makes me think of they saying around here, "finish how you start". Peregrinus, will elaborate more on what you meant here?

Altair wrote:
I also find it curious that they are so willing to be sacrifical lambs, I'd say "no you do it".
It got them into that group. It was the position they had to take to be apart of the group. They get value from it, even if they are the sacrificial lamb. If they chose not to take on that role, they would have to be ok not being apart of that group and that seems to be scary or uncomfortable for a lot of people. Peregrinus said this already. I wanted to elaborate on it a little.

On a side-note, I thought about what would happen if say one of the middle valued girls in this group ended up sleeping with you somehow. She would then possibly be promoted to a higher rank. She would have more insight on you then all the other girls have, which gives her more value, which raises her "status".

On the other side, if a lower level girl from this group slept with you (one of the sacrificial lambs) it could possibly increase her rank within the group, or it could give her a momentary increase in status and on the flip-side they now labeled you and put you in a box as "someone who sleeps with low rank lamb". This cracks me up as I'm typing it! Mostly, because I can see it and it makes sense, but also because it feels so silly!!!

Altair wrote:
To add to peregrinus, I would say commitment is any abandonment to the flow of the situation, no matter how small. They use "bait" to determine in which way they can redirect you. To commit is to be static, you're consciously holding a position that doesn't fit reality. It's like when water gets seperated from the river. It goes into little puddles to dry up.

Bait can be anything, that lulls you into a obligated routine. It could be as simple as training you to pick a seat beside them. If you begin to feel guilty about not doing something, then they have got through your defenses.
Really good point.

To add to this. I've been thinking why I do the things I do at times and it led me to see where I subtilely am doing things out of a place of reaction. For example, when I first came on board here I began to play the game by the book - looking for places where girls were playing games and where I could counter-attack. To me, this even a subtle form of being reactive, because I'm reacting to her actions.

The flip-side to me is me coming from a place of being real and doing the things I want to do in the moment. If I'm coming from that place and happily fall into one of her small traps, so be it, maybe I lost the ball for a little bit, but it's all okay to me if I'm enjoying myself and it was what I wanted to do. Naturally the ball will come back, if I'm the man I present myself to be and it won't have to be a calculated move, it'll just happen the way it should, or I get to find out she isn't who she really is portraying herself to be.

This has been on my mind a lot lately and is big for me, because it takes the focus off of them and the games and more on myself and enjoying myself while I'm here. I think it's definitely to have an awareness of what's going on before the scenes, because that helps give us more choices and to recognize when we're being manipulated. *peeling off the layers*

peregrinus wrote:
There is a synchronicity here, as I have been thinking about white flags and submission after the last few posts... commitment definitely is the wrong word... which is another problem..

Submission of frame.
Conditioning has made them think they want us to submit, but deep down they're the ones who need to let go. It's been said here before, the more a woman can let go and submit to her partner, the more she can enjoy it fully.

Do you think they really want submission of frame?

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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 10:37 pm 
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TheDude wrote: *
peregrinus wrote:
If there is value and it is given without commitment, is commitment then required?
Commitment would probably be required from the person who is attached to the value. I'm thinking about if someone wasn't attached/dependent on the value, then why would they seek commitment? It would only weigh them down.
For some reason, I want to say here, the person with the attachment is the one who cannot generate *that* value.

TheDude wrote: *
peregrinus wrote:
females do not need or require a male to solely commit to them, all they need is to know that their needs for value are being fulfilled and where that value is coming from *now*.
To the second part of this quote - it makes me think of they saying around here, "finish how you start". Peregrinus, will elaborate more on what you meant here?
the value does not need to come from one singular person, also it does not need to come from the same source each day or month or year, as long as it is there.

All that stuff about females living in the moment and on their emotions... apply some of that thinking to areas within this.

Of course, if someone did happen to offer that value and regularly and the cost was not too high (or free), you would be foolish to not take them up on the offer.

If someone else offered the same or more value for less cost, would you blame them for choosing that option?

--

Quite right on the status changes within a group.
If you think about it, Altair is managing to watch them learn with the training wheels still on their trikes. Unlike males who tend to do it seperately and in competition, the other side is far more of a group activity, even on the fringes.
TheDude wrote: *
This cracks me up as I'm typing it! Mostly, because I can see it and it makes sense, but also because it feels so silly!!!
Beautiful eh ;)

TheDude wrote: *
looking for places where girls were playing games and where I could counter-attack. To me, this even a subtle form of being reactive, because I'm reacting to her actions.
following and then reacting. At its base level this is reactive.
TheDude wrote: *
if I'm the man I present myself to be and it won't have to be a calculated move, it'll just happen the way it should, or I get to find out she isn't who she really is portraying herself to be.
All of this
Quote:
Do you think they really want submission of frame?
Nope...

It is easier to test for the presence of a negative trait than to test for multiple positive traits or it would seem so.

_________________
In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 4:01 am 
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TheDude wrote: *
On a side-note, I thought about what would happen if say one of the middle valued girls in this group ended up sleeping with you somehow. She would then possibly be promoted to a higher rank. She would have more insight on you then all the other girls have, which gives her more value, which raises her "status".

On the other side, if a lower level girl from this group slept with you (one of the sacrificial lambs) it could possibly increase her rank within the group, or it could give her a momentary increase in status and on the flip-side they now labeled you and put you in a box as "someone who sleeps with low rank lamb". This cracks me up as I'm typing it! Mostly, because I can see it and it makes sense, but also because it feels so silly!!!
I've got fronted on by some of the lower middle value girls, she was coming onto me one evening but I stopped her short of kissing. Then at the end of the night she took off and low and behold one of the ring leaders was with her when she left. They know I would sleep with them idc, I just won't put much effort into it. Take it or leave it, no chit chat.

If they are driven by attachment, then it's logical that their position within the group is elevated by the value they are attaching themselves to. So if I was to give up ball possession to a mid value girl then her position within the group would be static because she is in equilibrium with what they would perceive my value to be.

Their position is elevated by attaching themselves to someone with greater value than what they and others perceive their own position to be.

What then is more important? My value has a deciding factor within their own heirarchy, or their advances to quantify my value empirically.
peregrinus wrote: *
TheDude wrote: *
peregrinus wrote:
If there is value and it is given without commitment, is commitment then required?
Commitment would probably be required from the person who is attached to the value. I'm thinking about if someone wasn't attached/dependent on the value, then why would they seek commitment? It would only weigh them down.
For some reason, I want to say here, the person with the attachment is the one who cannot generate *that* value.
Attachment is a more superficial level than value generation. I think it's something added after the fact, so this makes sense to me also.

peregrinus wrote:
Of course, if someone did happen to offer that value and regularly and the cost was not too high (or free), you would be foolish to not take them up on the offer.

If someone else offered the same or more value for less cost, would you blame them for choosing that option?
How is value compared and contrasted? If through it's availability that presents a fatal flaw in their framework. Which I suspect is a source of many problems for them. It works as an initial filter, but for it to actually be useful it needs to be constrained in other ways.
peregrinus wrote:
Unlike males who tend to do it seperately and in competition, the other side is far more of a group activity, even on the fringes.
I hadn't thought of this but my disinterest in competing with other males is also preventing them from using their "scouters" accurately. Not only am I not revealing my position by letting a certain level of women have the ball with me. I am also not clearly conforming to a role within the male hierarchy.


peregrinus wrote:
Nope...

It is easier to test for the presence of a negative trait than to test for multiple positive traits or it would seem so.
Makes sense, if 100 tests fail to control me, how can they know the 101st won't work.

Positive traits tend to be tested "with the grain" if you really wanna know what someone is made of you would try to rattle them.

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A truly powerful Man jealously guards his most precious resources; his independence and his ability to maneuver. True power isn’t controlling others, but the degree to which you control the course of your own life and your own choices. -Rational Male


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 4:53 am 
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peregrinus wrote:
females do not need or require a male to solely commit to them, all they need is to know that their needs for value are being fulfilled and where that value is coming from *now*.
TheDude wrote:
To the second part of this quote - it makes me think of they saying around here, "finish how you start". Peregrinus, will elaborate more on what you meant here?
peregrinus wrote:
the value does not need to come from one singular person, also it does not need to come from the same source each day or month or year, as long as it is there.

All that stuff about females living in the moment and on their emotions... apply some of that thinking to areas within this.

Of course, if someone did happen to offer that value and regularly and the cost was not too high (or free), you would be foolish to not take them up on the offer.

If someone else offered the same or more value for less cost, would you blame them for choosing that option?
This makes me think about when you described the highs women feel from shopping, pampering themselves and other things which don't require a partner.

peregrinus wrote:
If you think about it, Altair is managing to watch them learn with the training wheels still on their trikes. Unlike males who tend to do it seperately and in competition, the other side is far more of a group activity, even on the fringes.
Yeah, if men were able to learn in a similar way (in groups), then maybe forums like this wouldn't exist.
I think we learn about this stuff more by ourselves than in a group, because of the social conditioning that goes on and how societies paint the picture of "what a man looks like" aka Hollywood.

peregrinus wrote:
TheDude wrote: *
looking for places where girls were playing games and where I could counter-attack. To me, this even a subtle form of being reactive, because I'm reacting to her actions.
following and then reacting. At its base level this is reactive.
Yeah, it is.
I can see how this also happens in mediation and observations for me - something comes up and I try to change it (reactive), rather than just observe it (active). :idea:
I really missed the shot on this one! :oops:

peregrinus wrote:
TheDude wrote:
Do you think they really want submission of frame?
Nope...

It is easier to test for the presence of a negative trait than to test for multiple positive traits or it would seem so.
Yeah, I can see what you mean. This makes a lot more sense when I think about what it would feel like to be a pretty girl who gets a lot of attention.

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 5:02 am 
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Altair wrote:
I've got fronted on by some of the lower middle value girls, she was coming onto me one evening but I stopped her short of kissing. Then at the end of the night she took off and low and behold one of the ring leaders was with her when she left. They know I would sleep with them idc, I just won't put much effort into it. Take it or leave it, no chit chat.

If they are driven by attachment, then it's logical that their position within the group is elevated by the value they are attaching themselves to. So if I was to give up ball possession to a mid value girl then her position within the group would be static because she is in equilibrium with what they would perceive my value to be.

Their position is elevated by attaching themselves to someone with greater value than what they and others perceive their own position to be.

What then is more important? My value has a deciding factor within their own heirarchy, or their advances to quantify my value empirically.
Can you describe this in a more simpler way?

Altair wrote: *
peregrinus wrote: *
TheDude wrote: *
Commitment would probably be required from the person who is attached to the value. I'm thinking about if someone wasn't attached/dependent on the value, then why would they seek commitment? It would only weigh them down.
For some reason, I want to say here, the person with the attachment is the one who cannot generate *that* value.
Attachment is a more superficial level than value generation. I think it's something added after the fact, so this makes sense to me also.
So, are you guys saying attachment happens after values (lack of it)?

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 4:29 pm 
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The value would have to be generated for there to be an attachment to it. So the person creating the value isn't also attached to it, because they created it in this situation.

If I am mid value and a mid value girl is able to get me to give up ball possession. That means their initial assessment of me was correct. That means not only do they know my value but they know their own place within their hierarchy. She moves neither up or down they guessed correctly.

If I was to be uncooperative and not do what they expect they would be thrown into chaos. Depending on how much they get worked up smaller and smaller contributions toward cracking the case of figuring me out are worth more and more. They're using those as a barometer to track and shift their own positions. At this point an interaction with normal guy who played by the rules would do little to shift their position in the group.

Are they using me to gain an absolute knowledge of where I think I am or the relative knowledge or where they fit in comparison without the actual quantification of my "absolute" value?

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