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Charles Manson http://naturalfreedom.info/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2225 |
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Author: | Merrick [ Sun May 06, 2012 12:39 am ] |
Post subject: | Charles Manson |
I just listened to some interviews of Charles Manson, and he makes scary sense. ALOT of times. It´s messed up, really.. and quite fascinating, too. “Look down at me and you see a fool; look up at me and you see a god; look straight at me and you see yourself” "We're all our own prisons, we are each all our own wardens and we do our own time. I can't judge anyone else. What other people do is not really my affair unless they approach me with it. Prison's in your mind. Can't you see I'm free?" "As long as there's hate in your heart, there'll be hate in the world. You can't fight for peace and you cannot capture freedom." "They're looking for something dirty in everything, and if you're looking for something, you'll find it. You have to put up some kind of face for them, and that's the only face they understand." "Anything you see in me is in you. If you want to see a vicious killer, that's who you'll see, do you understand that? If you see me as your brother, that's what I'll be. It all depends on how much love you have. I am you, and when you can admit that, you will be free. I am just a mirror." "You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy." "The real strong have no need to prove it to the phonies." There are even more extremely spot on things he says about people, culture, society at large, double standarts, perception etc. Even Iceberg Slim had a picture of him on the wall.. so that should tell you something |
Author: | The Kidd!! [ Sun May 06, 2012 12:45 am ] | |
Post subject: | Re: Charles Manson | |
"The real strong have no need to prove it to the phonies."
THIS!
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Author: | Rockefeller [ Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:33 am ] | |
Post subject: | Re: Charles Manson | |
There are even more extremely spot on things he says about people, culture, society at large, double standarts, perception etc.
This is straight from Wikipedia. Even Iceberg Slim had a picture of him on the wall.. so that should tell you something "Manson received five years' parole in September 1958, the same year in which Rosalie received a decree of divorce. By November, he was pimping a 16-year-old girl and was receiving additional support from a girl with wealthy parents. In September 1959, he pleaded guilty to a charge of attempting to cash a forged U.S. Treasury check. He received a 10-year suspended sentence and probation after a young woman with an arrest record for prostitution made a "tearful plea" before the court that she and Manson were "deeply in love... and would marry if Charlie were freed."[2]:137–146 Before the year's end, the woman did marry Manson, possibly so testimony against him would not be required of her.[2]:137–146" It could be that Iceberg Slim admired his ability to be a cult leader and his ability to control other human beings. Charles Manson also had a stable of girls that were willing to kill for him. I believe that the women actually shaved their head and crawled to the courtroom to support him. At any rate, this is speculation. The picture Iceberg had could have just been there for any other reason. Here's a video of the girls crawling in PUBLIC for him. http://youtu.be/aU82KFWEvcE |
Author: | rekieter [ Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:39 pm ] | |
Post subject: | Re: Charles Manson | |
I just listened to some interviews of Charles Manson, and he makes scary sense. ALOT of times.
Lol got exactly the same feeling few years ago when I read his biography
It´s messed up, really.. and quite fascinating, too. |
Author: | GoldenBoy [ Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:47 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Charles Manson |
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Charles_Manson |
Author: | rekieter [ Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:00 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Charles Manson |
If I had a desire, it would be to be free from desire We jailed real buddha lol |
Author: | fufe [ Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:02 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Charles Manson |
He seems smart and all.. But why the murders ? |
Author: | rekieter [ Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:03 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Charles Manson |
Here's your answer: Maybe I should have killed four, five hundred people. Then I would have felt better. Then I would have felt like I really offered society something |
Author: | The lesser Evil [ Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:02 am ] | |
Post subject: | Re: Charles Manson | |
I just listened to some interviews of Charles Manson, and he makes scary sense. ALOT of times.
It´s messed up, really.. and quite fascinating, too. “Look down at me and you see a fool; look up at me and you see a god; look straight at me and you see yourself” "We're all our own prisons, we are each all our own wardens and we do our own time. I can't judge anyone else. What other people do is not really my affair unless they approach me with it. Prison's in your mind. Can't you see I'm free?" "As long as there's hate in your heart, there'll be hate in the world. You can't fight for peace and you cannot capture freedom." "They're looking for something dirty in everything, and if you're looking for something, you'll find it. You have to put up some kind of face for them, and that's the only face they understand." "Anything you see in me is in you. If you want to see a vicious killer, that's who you'll see, do you understand that? If you see me as your brother, that's what I'll be. It all depends on how much love you have. I am you, and when you can admit that, you will be free. I am just a mirror." "You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy." "The real strong have no need to prove it to the phonies." There are even more extremely spot on things he says about people, culture, society at large, double standarts, perception etc. Even Iceberg Slim had a picture of him on the wall.. so that should tell you something Where can I hear this Charles Manson interview? |
Author: | GoldenBoy [ Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:04 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Charles Manson |
An amazing speech (his 1970 trial 'court transcript') : http://www.mansondirect.com/transa.html You could end quoting almost everything, makes 'scary sense' indeed TLE : It was different quotes from different interviews. Try Youtube : https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... long&uni=3 |
Author: | roark [ Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:37 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Charles Manson |
Reading this, he reminds me a lot of Kurtz (book: "Heart Of Darkness" or movie: "Apocalypse Now" - thanks to 'Grinus for the tip). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_Darkness http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_Now A man who who had the COURAGE to stare deeply into the darkness that lies within the heart of every man, including himself, defying the smug hypocricy of civilisation at large ("Social Matrix", anyone?) - a good thing. However, I get the impression (I have not researched the case enough to know for sure) that he did not have the WILL (or strength of self/character/whateverthefuck) to successfully assimilate what he saw in that darkness - resulting in madness - not so good. As much as I admire Kurtz, I have more admiration for Marlowe (book) and Willard (movie) - it seems to me that Kurtz inspired these characters to look into their own "hearts of darkness", but unlike Kurtz, they were able to go the distance, so to speak.....While neither story goes on to describe the fate of these two protaganists, I would imagine that they went on to become fully realised human beings, and lived out the rest of their lives in their underwear, derailing and hijacking threads on Natural Freedom Someone else who I want to study one of these days is Adolf Eichmann (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Eichmann). He seems to be a perfect example of how evil is a lot more commonplace and closer to home than we would like to think. And if, after this, we still think that this behaviour could only occur in predispositioned individuals, think again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment. In my opinion, we need to look at these things (and people like Hitler, Manson, etc.) HEAD ON, and not sweep them under the carpet as scapegoats for our own innermost savage desires which we cannot face (which, incidentally, is what the Social Matrix encourages us to do.) |
Author: | roark [ Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:39 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Charles Manson |
And thank you Merrick for starting this thread, and GoldenBoy for sharing the court transcript. |
Author: | roark [ Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:15 am ] | ||||||||
Post subject: | Re: Charles Manson | ||||||||
One more thing, for any who might be interested: Excerpts from Marlowe's account in the book "Heart of Darkness":
.........Truth stripped of its cloak of time. Let the fool gape and shudder - the man knows, and can look on without a wink. But he must be at least as much of a man as these on the shore (roark - here he refers to primitives doing a horrifyingly ugly and savage dance.) He must meet that truth with his own true stuff - with his own inborn strength.
You can't understand. How could you? - with solid pavement under your feet, surrounded by kind neighbours............utter solitude without a policeman - by the way of silence - utter silence, where no warning voice of a kind neighbour can be heard whispering of public opinion? These little things make all the great difference. When they are gone you must fall back upon your own innate strength, upon your own capacity for faithfulness.
I think it (ie the wilderness - roark) had whispered to him things about himself which he did not know, things of which he had no conception till he took counsel with this great solitude - and the whisper had proven irresistably fascinating. It echoed loudly within him because he was hollow at the core.
....the heavy, mute spell of the wilderness - that seemed to draw him to its pitiless breast by the awakening of forgotten and brutal instincts, by the memory of gratified and monstrous passions.
Droll thing life is - that mysterious arrangement of merciless logic for a futile purpose. The most you can hope from it is some knowledge of yourself.
Then, after the adventure, and Kurtz had died:
I found myself back in the sepulchural city, resenting the sight of people hurrying through the streets to filch a little money from each other, ...........to dream their insignificant and silly little dreams. They trespassed upon my thoughts. They were intruders whose knowledge of life was to me an irritating pretence, because I felt so sure they could not possibly know the things I knew.
I had no particular desire to enlighten them, but I had some difficulty in restraining myself from laughing in their faces, so full of stupid importance
(Sound familiar?)All emphasis mine. Whew.... (roark wipes sweat from forehead).... Shit! - I almost forgot:
"The horror! The horror!"
I thought it would be a good idea to record these quotes onto this forum for posterity (and reference).....I hope someone else can find value in them.I think 'Grinus was right (isn't he usually?) when he said something along the lines that, in our civilised societies, a MAJOR omission is rites of passage. I envisage that the Native American vision quest, for example, thrusts the kind of pain and solitude described above upon their young men, so that they can become whole, integral MEN. |
Author: | GoldenBoy [ Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:39 am ] | ||
Post subject: | Re: Charles Manson | ||
In my opinion, we need to look at these things (and people like Hitler, Manson, etc.) HEAD ON, and not sweep them under the carpet as scapegoats for our own innermost savage desires which we cannot face (which, incidentally, is what the Social Matrix encourages us to do.)
Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him.
Now the why is pretty simple to figure out.Fyodor Dostoevsky Mirror |
Author: | peregrinus [ Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:17 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Charles Manson |
roark |
Author: | Merrick [ Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:38 pm ] | |
Post subject: | Re: Charles Manson | |
And thank you Merrick for starting this thread
You´re welcome, thought it might be interesting for some of ya´ll.Thanks for the quotes roark, added ALOT of value. You made it a gold plated thread, so to speak |
Author: | roark [ Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:38 pm ] | |||
Post subject: | Re: Charles Manson | |||
Thanks for the kind words, guys. Sorry I didn't reply sooner, but my access to the internet is very sporadic these days........ Anyway, in the spirit of all this Heart Of Darkness/shadow archetype stuff, I would also like to submit the following poem (actually, it was read by Kurtz in "Apocalypse Now"):
The Hollow Men by T S Eliot
Actually, a lot of it went over my head (I never got around to reading Dante, even though I keep promising to), but the following really resonates with me:
Mistah Kurtz-he dead A penny for the Old Guy I We are the hollow men We are the stuffed men Leaning together Headpiece filled with straw. Alas! Our dried voices, when We whisper together Are quiet and meaningless As wind in dry grass Or rats' feet over broken glass In our dry cellar Shape without form, shade without colour, Paralysed force, gesture without motion; Those who have crossed With direct eyes, to death's other Kingdom Remember us-if at all-not as lost Violent souls, but only As the hollow men The stuffed men. II Eyes I dare not meet in dreams In death's dream kingdom These do not appear: There, the eyes are Sunlight on a broken column There, is a tree swinging And voices are In the wind's singing More distant and more solemn Than a fading star. Let me be no nearer In death's dream kingdom Let me also wear Such deliberate disguises Rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves In a field Behaving as the wind behaves No nearer- Not that final meeting In the twilight kingdom III This is the dead land This is cactus land Here the stone images Are raised, here they receive The supplication of a dead man's hand Under the twinkle of a fading star. Is it like this In death's other kingdom Waking alone At the hour when we are Trembling with tenderness Lips that would kiss Form prayers to broken stone. IV The eyes are not here There are no eyes here In this valley of dying stars In this hollow valley This broken jaw of our lost kingdoms In this last of meeting places We grope together And avoid speech Gathered on this beach of the tumid river Sightless, unless The eyes reappear As the perpetual star Multifoliate rose Of death's twilight kingdom The hope only Of empty men. V Here we go round the prickly pear Prickly pear prickly pear Here we go round the prickly pear At five o'clock in the morning. Between the idea And the reality Between the motion And the act Falls the Shadow For Thine is the Kingdom Between the conception And the creation Between the emotion And the response Falls the Shadow Life is very long Between the desire And the spasm Between the potency And the existence Between the essence And the descent Falls the Shadow For Thine is the Kingdom For Thine is Life is For Thine is the This is the way the world ends This is the way the world ends This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper. Editor notes 1. Mistah Kurtz: a character in Joseph Conrad's "Heart of Darkness." 2. A...Old Guy: a cry of English children on the streets on Guy Fawkes Day, November 5, when they carry straw effigies of Guy Fawkes and beg for money for fireworks to celebrate the day. Fawkes was a traitor who attempted with conspirators to blow up both houses of Parliament in 1605; the "gunpowder plot" failed. 3. Those...Kingdom: Those who have represented something positive and direct are blessed in Paradise. The reference is to Dante's "Paradiso". 4. Eyes: eyes of those in eternity who had faith and confidence and were a force that acted and were not paralyzed. 5. crossed stave: refers to scarecrows 6. tumid river: swollen river. The River Acheron in Hell in Dante's "Inferno". The damned must cross this river to get to the land of the dead. 7. Multifoliate rose: in dante's "Divine Comedy" paradise is described as a rose of many leaves. 8. prickly pear: cactus 9. Between...act: a reference to "Julius Caesar" "Between the acting of a dreadful thing/And the first motion, all the interim is/Like a phantasma or a hideous dream." 10. For...Kingdom: the beginning of the closing words of the Lord's Prayer.
We are the hollow men
To me, this is how we are when we live blissfully unaware within the matrix. Also:
We are the stuffed men Leaning together Headpiece filled with straw. Alas! Our dried voices, when We whisper together Are quiet and meaningless As wind in dry grass Or rats' feet over broken glass In our dry cellar Shape without form, shade without colour, Paralysed force, gesture without motion;
Between the idea
Seeing as how he quoted "Heart Of Darkness" in the beginning, I figure TS Eliot is referring to the same shadow that all of us on this forum are endeavoring (or, in some cases, have already gotten) to know.And the reality Between the motion And the act Falls the Shadow For Thine is the Kingdom Between the conception And the creation Between the emotion And the response Falls the Shadow Life is very long Between the desire And the spasm Between the potency And the existence Between the essence And the descent Falls the Shadow For Thine is the Kingdom roark out. |
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