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 Post subject: Charles Manson
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 12:39 am 
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I just listened to some interviews of Charles Manson, and he makes scary sense. ALOT of times.
It´s messed up, really.. and quite fascinating, too.

“Look down at me and you see a fool;
look up at me and you see a god;
look straight at me and you see yourself”

"We're all our own prisons, we are each all our own wardens and we do our own time. I can't judge anyone else. What other people do is not really my affair unless they approach me with it. Prison's in your mind. Can't you see I'm free?"

"As long as there's hate in your heart, there'll be hate in the world. You can't fight for peace and you cannot capture freedom."

"They're looking for something dirty in everything, and if you're looking for something, you'll find it. You have to put up some kind of face for them, and that's the only face they understand."

"Anything you see in me is in you. If you want to see a vicious killer, that's who you'll see, do you understand that? If you see me as your brother, that's what I'll be. It all depends on how much love you have. I am you, and when you can admit that, you will be free. I am just a mirror."

"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."

"The real strong have no need to prove it to the phonies."


There are even more extremely spot on things he says about people, culture, society at large, double standarts, perception etc.
Even Iceberg Slim had a picture of him on the wall.. so that should tell you something :lol: :lol:

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Perfect behavior is born of complete indifference.


Last edited by Merrick on Sun May 06, 2012 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Charles Manson
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 12:45 am 
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Quote:
"The real strong have no need to prove it to the phonies."
THIS! :ugeek:

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Pimposophy Revisited is now finally available on Amazon in all territories!


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 Post subject: Re: Charles Manson
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:33 am 
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Merrick wrote:
There are even more extremely spot on things he says about people, culture, society at large, double standarts, perception etc.
Even Iceberg Slim had a picture of him on the wall.. so that should tell you something :lol: :lol:
This is straight from Wikipedia.

"Manson received five years' parole in September 1958, the same year in which Rosalie received a decree of divorce. By November, he was pimping a 16-year-old girl and was receiving additional support from a girl with wealthy parents. In September 1959, he pleaded guilty to a charge of attempting to cash a forged U.S. Treasury check. He received a 10-year suspended sentence and probation after a young woman with an arrest record for prostitution made a "tearful plea" before the court that she and Manson were "deeply in love... and would marry if Charlie were freed."[2]:137–146 Before the year's end, the woman did marry Manson, possibly so testimony against him would not be required of her.[2]:137–146"

It could be that Iceberg Slim admired his ability to be a cult leader and his ability to control other human beings. Charles Manson also had a stable of girls that were willing to kill for him. I believe that the women actually shaved their head and crawled to the courtroom to support him. At any rate, this is speculation. The picture Iceberg had could have just been there for any other reason.

Here's a video of the girls crawling in PUBLIC for him. http://youtu.be/aU82KFWEvcE

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"Any good pimp is his own best company. His inner-life is so rich with cunning and scheming to out-think his whores." -Iceberg Slim


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 Post subject: Re: Charles Manson
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:39 pm 
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Merrick wrote:
I just listened to some interviews of Charles Manson, and he makes scary sense. ALOT of times.
It´s messed up, really.. and quite fascinating, too.
Lol got exactly the same feeling few years ago when I read his biography

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Laying on the floor in a pool of blood and cum
My demons lay beside as I kiss them one by one
Then on that day I met a force that nothing will compare
I was born the son of evil when I fuck the devil there!


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 Post subject: Re: Charles Manson
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:47 pm 
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http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Charles_Manson :ugeek:

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 Post subject: Re: Charles Manson
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:00 pm 
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If I had a desire, it would be to be free from desire
We jailed real buddha lol

_________________
Laying on the floor in a pool of blood and cum
My demons lay beside as I kiss them one by one
Then on that day I met a force that nothing will compare
I was born the son of evil when I fuck the devil there!


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 Post subject: Re: Charles Manson
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:02 pm 
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He seems smart and all.. But why the murders ? :geek:


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 Post subject: Re: Charles Manson
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:03 pm 
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Here's your answer:
Maybe I should have killed four, five hundred people. Then I would have felt better. Then I would have felt like I really offered society something
:)

_________________
Laying on the floor in a pool of blood and cum
My demons lay beside as I kiss them one by one
Then on that day I met a force that nothing will compare
I was born the son of evil when I fuck the devil there!


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 Post subject: Re: Charles Manson
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:02 am 
Merrick wrote:
I just listened to some interviews of Charles Manson, and he makes scary sense. ALOT of times.
It´s messed up, really.. and quite fascinating, too.

“Look down at me and you see a fool;
look up at me and you see a god;
look straight at me and you see yourself”

"We're all our own prisons, we are each all our own wardens and we do our own time. I can't judge anyone else. What other people do is not really my affair unless they approach me with it. Prison's in your mind. Can't you see I'm free?"

"As long as there's hate in your heart, there'll be hate in the world. You can't fight for peace and you cannot capture freedom."



"They're looking for something dirty in everything, and if you're looking for something, you'll find it. You have to put up some kind of face for them, and that's the only face they understand."

"Anything you see in me is in you. If you want to see a vicious killer, that's who you'll see, do you understand that? If you see me as your brother, that's what I'll be. It all depends on how much love you have. I am you, and when you can admit that, you will be free. I am just a mirror."

"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."

"The real strong have no need to prove it to the phonies."


There are even more extremely spot on things he says about people, culture, society at large, double standarts, perception etc.
Even Iceberg Slim had a picture of him on the wall.. so that should tell you something :lol: :lol:

Where can I hear this Charles Manson interview?


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 Post subject: Re: Charles Manson
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:04 pm 
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An amazing speech (his 1970 trial 'court transcript') : http://www.mansondirect.com/transa.html
You could end quoting almost everything, makes 'scary sense' indeed

TLE : It was different quotes from different interviews.

Try Youtube : https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... long&uni=3

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"The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn."
Alvin Toffler


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 Post subject: Re: Charles Manson
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:37 am 
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Reading this, he reminds me a lot of Kurtz (book: "Heart Of Darkness" or movie: "Apocalypse Now" - thanks to 'Grinus for the tip).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_Darkness
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_Now

A man who who had the COURAGE to stare deeply into the darkness that lies within the heart of every man, including himself, defying the smug hypocricy of civilisation at large ("Social Matrix", anyone?) - a good thing.

However, I get the impression (I have not researched the case enough to know for sure) that he did not have the WILL (or strength of self/character/whateverthefuck) to successfully assimilate what he saw in that darkness - resulting in madness - not so good.

As much as I admire Kurtz, I have more admiration for Marlowe (book) and Willard (movie) - it seems to me that Kurtz inspired these characters to look into their own "hearts of darkness", but unlike Kurtz, they were able to go the distance, so to speak.....While neither story goes on to describe the fate of these two protaganists, I would imagine that they went on to become fully realised human beings, and lived out the rest of their lives in their underwear, derailing and hijacking threads on Natural Freedom :lol: :lol: :lol: :P

Someone else who I want to study one of these days is Adolf Eichmann (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Eichmann). He seems to be a perfect example of how evil is a lot more commonplace and closer to home than we would like to think. And if, after this, we still think that this behaviour could only occur in predispositioned individuals, think again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment.

In my opinion, we need to look at these things (and people like Hitler, Manson, etc.) HEAD ON, and not sweep them under the carpet as scapegoats for our own innermost savage desires which we cannot face (which, incidentally, is what the Social Matrix encourages us to do.)

_________________
"I will not grow in the light, until I pass through the darkest caverns of my heart..."

"Temet Nosce"


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 Post subject: Re: Charles Manson
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:39 am 
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And thank you Merrick for starting this thread, and GoldenBoy for sharing the court transcript.

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"I will not grow in the light, until I pass through the darkest caverns of my heart..."

"Temet Nosce"


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 Post subject: Re: Charles Manson
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:15 am 
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One more thing, for any who might be interested:

Excerpts from Marlowe's account in the book "Heart of Darkness":
Quote:
.........Truth stripped of its cloak of time. Let the fool gape and shudder - the man knows, and can look on without a wink. But he must be at least as much of a man as these on the shore (roark - here he refers to primitives doing a horrifyingly ugly and savage dance.) He must meet that truth with his own true stuff - with his own inborn strength.
Quote:
You can't understand. How could you? - with solid pavement under your feet, surrounded by kind neighbours............utter solitude without a policeman - by the way of silence - utter silence, where no warning voice of a kind neighbour can be heard whispering of public opinion? These little things make all the great difference. When they are gone you must fall back upon your own innate strength, upon your own capacity for faithfulness.
Quote:
I think it (ie the wilderness - roark) had whispered to him things about himself which he did not know, things of which he had no conception till he took counsel with this great solitude - and the whisper had proven irresistably fascinating. It echoed loudly within him because he was hollow at the core.
Quote:
....the heavy, mute spell of the wilderness - that seemed to draw him to its pitiless breast by the awakening of forgotten and brutal instincts, by the memory of gratified and monstrous passions.
Quote:
Droll thing life is - that mysterious arrangement of merciless logic for a futile purpose. The most you can hope from it is some knowledge of yourself.
Then, after the adventure, and Kurtz had died:
Quote:
I found myself back in the sepulchural city, resenting the sight of people hurrying through the streets to filch a little money from each other, ...........to dream their insignificant and silly little dreams. They trespassed upon my thoughts. They were intruders whose knowledge of life was to me an irritating pretence, because I felt so sure they could not possibly know the things I knew.
Quote:
I had no particular desire to enlighten them, but I had some difficulty in restraining myself from laughing in their faces, so full of stupid importance
(Sound familiar?)

All emphasis mine.

Whew.... (roark wipes sweat from forehead)....

Shit! - I almost forgot:
Quote:
"The horror! The horror!"
I thought it would be a good idea to record these quotes onto this forum for posterity (and reference).....I hope someone else can find value in them.

I think 'Grinus was right (isn't he usually?) when he said something along the lines that, in our civilised societies, a MAJOR omission is rites of passage. I envisage that the Native American vision quest, for example, thrusts the kind of pain and solitude described above upon their young men, so that they can become whole, integral MEN.

_________________
"I will not grow in the light, until I pass through the darkest caverns of my heart..."

"Temet Nosce"


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 Post subject: Re: Charles Manson
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:39 am 
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roark wrote:
In my opinion, we need to look at these things (and people like Hitler, Manson, etc.) HEAD ON, and not sweep them under the carpet as scapegoats for our own innermost savage desires which we cannot face (which, incidentally, is what the Social Matrix encourages us to do.)
Quote:
Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him.
Fyodor Dostoevsky
Now the why is pretty simple to figure out.
Mirror

_________________
"The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn."
Alvin Toffler


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 Post subject: Re: Charles Manson
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:17 am 
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roark :geek:

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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 Post subject: Re: Charles Manson
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:38 pm 
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roark wrote:
And thank you Merrick for starting this thread
You´re welcome, thought it might be interesting for some of ya´ll.
Thanks for the quotes roark, added ALOT of value.
You made it a gold plated thread, so to speak :D

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 Post subject: Re: Charles Manson
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:38 pm 
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Thanks for the kind words, guys. Sorry I didn't reply sooner, but my access to the internet is very sporadic these days........

Anyway, in the spirit of all this Heart Of Darkness/shadow archetype stuff, I would also like to submit the following poem (actually, it was read by Kurtz in "Apocalypse Now"):
Quote:
The Hollow Men by T S Eliot
Mistah Kurtz-he dead
A penny for the Old Guy



I

We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!
Our dried voices, when
We whisper together
Are quiet and meaningless
As wind in dry grass
Or rats' feet over broken glass
In our dry cellar

Shape without form, shade without colour,
Paralysed force, gesture without motion;

Those who have crossed
With direct eyes, to death's other Kingdom
Remember us-if at all-not as lost
Violent souls, but only
As the hollow men
The stuffed men.


II

Eyes I dare not meet in dreams
In death's dream kingdom
These do not appear:
There, the eyes are
Sunlight on a broken column
There, is a tree swinging
And voices are
In the wind's singing
More distant and more solemn
Than a fading star.

Let me be no nearer
In death's dream kingdom
Let me also wear
Such deliberate disguises
Rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves
In a field
Behaving as the wind behaves
No nearer-

Not that final meeting
In the twilight kingdom


III

This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.

Is it like this
In death's other kingdom
Waking alone
At the hour when we are
Trembling with tenderness
Lips that would kiss
Form prayers to broken stone.


IV

The eyes are not here
There are no eyes here
In this valley of dying stars
In this hollow valley
This broken jaw of our lost kingdoms

In this last of meeting places
We grope together
And avoid speech
Gathered on this beach of the tumid river

Sightless, unless
The eyes reappear
As the perpetual star
Multifoliate rose
Of death's twilight kingdom
The hope only
Of empty men.


V

Here we go round the prickly pear
Prickly pear prickly pear
Here we go round the prickly pear
At five o'clock in the morning.


Between the idea
And the reality
Between the motion
And the act
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom

Between the conception
And the creation
Between the emotion
And the response
Falls the Shadow
Life is very long

Between the desire
And the spasm
Between the potency
And the existence
Between the essence
And the descent
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom

For Thine is
Life is
For Thine is the

This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.


Editor notes

1. Mistah Kurtz: a character in Joseph Conrad's "Heart of Darkness."
2. A...Old Guy: a cry of English children on the streets on Guy Fawkes Day, November 5, when they carry straw effigies of Guy Fawkes and beg for money for fireworks to celebrate the day. Fawkes was a traitor who attempted with conspirators to blow up both houses of Parliament in 1605; the "gunpowder plot" failed.
3. Those...Kingdom: Those who have represented something positive and direct are blessed in Paradise. The reference is to Dante's "Paradiso".
4. Eyes: eyes of those in eternity who had faith and confidence and were a force that acted and were not paralyzed.
5. crossed stave: refers to scarecrows
6. tumid river: swollen river. The River Acheron in Hell in Dante's "Inferno". The damned must cross this river to get to the land of the dead.
7. Multifoliate rose: in dante's "Divine Comedy" paradise is described as a rose of many leaves.
8. prickly pear: cactus
9. Between...act: a reference to "Julius Caesar" "Between the acting of a dreadful thing/And the first motion, all the interim is/Like a phantasma or a hideous dream."
10. For...Kingdom: the beginning of the closing words of the Lord's Prayer.
Actually, a lot of it went over my head (I never got around to reading Dante, even though I keep promising to), but the following really resonates with me:
Quote:
We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!
Our dried voices, when
We whisper together
Are quiet and meaningless
As wind in dry grass
Or rats' feet over broken glass
In our dry cellar

Shape without form, shade without colour,
Paralysed force, gesture without motion;
To me, this is how we are when we live blissfully unaware within the matrix. Also:
Quote:
Between the idea
And the reality
Between the motion
And the act
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom

Between the conception
And the creation
Between the emotion
And the response
Falls the Shadow
Life is very long

Between the desire
And the spasm
Between the potency
And the existence
Between the essence
And the descent
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom
Seeing as how he quoted "Heart Of Darkness" in the beginning, I figure TS Eliot is referring to the same shadow that all of us on this forum are endeavoring (or, in some cases, have already gotten) to know.

roark out.

_________________
"I will not grow in the light, until I pass through the darkest caverns of my heart..."

"Temet Nosce"


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