Natural Freedom

Hey L!ttleMonster,

so I'd like to get your point of view about something that is being talked about a lot in the community: Looks. From your point of view: how much does Looks matter?

some women say looks don't matter that much (assuming the guy is not really ugly or really fat)
some women say that looks matter a lot....

your thoughts?

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"a sniper is the worst romancer, he never makes the first move"

Hey Sniper!

Thanks for your question =) I'm going to think this over for a bit and try to pull from my experiences - i'll get back to you in the next hour or so! Thankyou, thank you!!

Alright, so i'm going give you a few things to consider when approaching this subject.

First off, everyone IS going to have a different opinion on this matter, and ultimately, mine is: Looks do not matter (except in perhaps extreme cases, as you were suggesting in your initial post).

Discovery Channel had an episode once that looked into the way we attract each other, and how there is an internal rating system (of which I'm sure you're aware of, or have at least heard of), rating people 1 - 10, 10 being impossibly good looking. While this is a sketchy rating system, which I don't believe in, it was curious to see that the people, the subjects, WERE attracted to people of the same or similar caliber in looks. A 5 went for a 5 or 4 or 6, a 9 went for a 9, 2 went for a 2, etc. Of course, these people were pretty well matched up, with few exceptions and extreme examples, which makes me doubt that it's accurate - HOWEVER, I suppose it's a reflection on the mass general population, and how, in the end, the majority of couple do wind up looking alike or at least "going together".

Personally, I have not put looks high up on my internal "checklist". When I was in my early teens, my female friends and I composed lists of things we looked for in a guy, and the top 5 were: confidence, creativity, kindness/understanding/sympathy, open mind, intelligence. we each had a "bonus" category, and there was where I put "looks". A lot of my friends included looks in their top 5 requirements.

However, over time, this has changed for us. Looks remains about the same importance for me, but for a lot of my friends, it has dropped in their checklist. This is because:

A lot of my incredibly good looking female friends have fallen for the "really hot guy" and have been incredibly hurt by him. Looks boost a guy's confidence, in a way that makes a lot of hotter men feel inclined and privileged and seems to, by pattern in personal experience of mine and my friends, make him feel as if he's an exception. A lot of the more attractive guys I know cheat more easily, have more superficial values, and their mental checklists require their girlfriend to be "hot". After being hurt by these "hot" guys, many of my more beautiful friends are less inclined to include looks, but rather, are attracted by confidence, security, stability, intelligence. Many have thrown looks out altogether, settling for a guy who simply loves them and appreciates them for who they are.

To me, I'm not attracted by muscles or by hair styles or by how clear their skin is - I do have a "type" and that's a short guy with brown hair and blue eyes. And I've been with a guy of that nature, and when he knew he was "my type" his attitude changed and suddenly I didn't mean much to him. Which was probably my fault for sharing with him that his looks got me, but to be honest, there wasn't much to him beyond looks.

My current boyfriend attracted me by wearing a hot pink shirt... he's an "alpha male", and while he isn't the "hottest" guy around, being with him has given me the pair of eyes to see him as far more attractive than most other guys. His confidence in wearing a hot pink shirt made me laugh, and his personality sparkled a lot more than his eyes, at the time. Looks grow on people, I've noticed. I've dated a couple guys who most told me were downright ugly or goofy looking, but I saw their heart, their creativeness, and their love for me. and while I wasn't drawn in initially by their looks, I later found "little things" that I thought were endearing in their looks, that I came to love and appreciate and think were "cute".

I realize looks may be required for someone to be able to be "turned on" or to have initial attraction to them, especially for guys - which is perhaps why I feel more girls have secrets crushes on guys than guys have on girls. And which is why guys will take the initiative more than a girl will. But, I personally throw out a rating system - I can tell when one guy is hotter than another, but I also know what that usually means for personality.

Things that are more attractive to me fall under personality and how they carry themselves; shoulders back, not an overwhelming amount of peacocking (say, if my bf had been wearing pink sunglasses, a gold chain, along with the pink shirt, that'd have totally repulsed me rather than attracted me), and they sound like a gentlemen and they're genuinely interested, ask questions, and have at least a hint of intelligence, that has me sold.

But a pair of lovely eyes doesn't hurt, either

I hope this helps? You can question me further on which matters you desire more input on. Thanks again for asking!

thanks for the detailed answer L!ttleMonster, I'm starting to like you already
Ok you pretty much covered everything I wanted to know and this post will go to the treasure chest.

so I guess my final question will be this:

There are two guys in the community Brent and Zan, some people say they are getting girls mostly because of their looks...

I guess you already know Zan (and you know I don't have much love for him ) But anyway, Zan has some kind of charm that some women find attractive and some don't.
But do you think Zan gets women mostly because of his looks?

do you think Brent gets girls mostly because of his looks?
this is Brent in case you don't know him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcyW7YUuoAA

_________________
"a sniper is the worst romancer, he never makes the first move"

This is awesome!! Great to hear I covered what you wanted me too. I meant to add one sidenote, that my female friends who... tend to be more shallow that other friends of mine...who do like attractive men, always fall for them, and always will, it seems. Sometimes, despite being hurt, if you cling to a value like that, it'll remain. Sometimes it's because they don't have the will to sacrifice it, or perhaps it is their only interest. And some women who haven't been hurt by attractive men, but have ended relationships with them mutually, will probably continue to go back to them too, as a result. It all depends mostly upon experience, perspective, and personal checklists. =)

I have never felt any visual attraction to Zan, nor to Brent. Brent looks more like a character off of a cover of a fantasy novel... which takes me back to my mentioning of shallow attraction - those who do look for looks, and have associated it with fantasy, romance, wild nights. The fact that both Zan and Brent seem to have dedicated their lives to seducing and charming women too turns me off, because I would want a man to be invested into something more beneficial for society - okay, this is arguable, as many men have sworn by those techniques and personal lectures by the men - but the fact that they are creating an artificial personality in order to simply "charm" women doesn't cut it. I can see right through a man when I know he is attracted by looks and knows that he has the looks and is simply using them with a "charm". A charm should come naturally, and should not be overwhelming in his personality. There is a delicate balance between realism and what he presents.
Brent seems to know how to carry on conversation, but I too feel as if it'd be more for looks than for anything. Perhaps when Brent and Zan know when to stop talking, and cease the smirks and the flirtatious charm, then they'll realize how to get a real woman and to keep her. Women probably have left them, and they have left women, because the "acting" has ended and they are ready to move on to the next "character".

Although, this could turn into a discussion about whether or not someone is capable of developing an entirely new personality solely from so much practice and consistency in use of their imagined, charming, character...

But nevertheless, I stand by my original claim in that the women these men attract are probably the type who have a more shallow mentality, who crave a small fantasy; they get women, but nothing's permanent. Perhaps that says something? They may seem like prince charming at first, but in the end, I think anybody would rather be with someone of more depth than just looks and superficial charm. =)

Cool, thanks a lot for the insights . Now this post will be in the treasure chest....

_________________
"a sniper is the worst romancer, he never makes the first move"

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gosh, such honour!!! <333333333

I got a quick question too if you don't mind me asking L!ttleMonster. Can good looks work against a guy? Like you said that "really hot guys" tend to be assholes and a lot of women have been hurt by them. Good looks would attract the more shallow girls, but would it also tend to push away the non-shallow ones? I ask because I'm pretty quiet and I'm good looking but I feel like I intimidate some girls. I've been told I could be a male model. The typical blond hair blue eyed look. Now I just sound arrogant lol.

Thanks for the follow up, freespirit422 - I'm more than happy to look into your situation as well =)

Good looks *can* work against a guy, however, I don't think it'll ever be a continuous, negative issue. Good looking guys will *always* have a girl interested in them, or a chance with most any girl. The only catch is, you can't just be good looking - even the slightest effort in being a presenting that you're a good person will seal the deal. Looks can't do all of the work, and if that's all you have, then naturally nothing will work out in the end unless the girl is a masochist. I'm sure you're nicer than that and have great qualities inside too. Just keep your eyes out for a high quality girl; most any girl will probably be secretly watching you, but which type of girl are you looking out for? One who's just attractive? The one with her head on straight, who isn't won over by only your good looks, is the one you need to pursue, to win over. Try it out, I'm sure you'll see that there are far more women into you than you already think, and that you've been only limiting yourself to a specific type. =)

Thanks for the reply. I've been keeping an eye out for a high quality girl lately. I think my biggest hurdle right now is just my anxiety. I had anxiety and self-esteem issues growing up so sometimes even the most obvious signs I had a tendency to overlook or dismiss. I'm sure me not responding to these signs was taken as rejection by some of these girls or aloofness. Either way I'm trying to work out being more confident and reading signs better. My looks never really got me anywhere, even if girls did have interest, I would just usually blow it by not being confident enough.

Confidence is a good one, but remember, a lot of weakness or insecurity, doubt in confidence level, whatever it is you feel you have, is and can be masked by laughter, humour, light heartedness, and a kind word, a simple gesture.

@freespirit422

supose that you have won the lotery, billion of dolars, suddently girls start to talk to you, do you feel anxiety? do you worry about blowing it, i don't think so, becasue you know you have something that they whant, so they talk to you, you ask yourself what do they have to offer you?, you don't give a shit about anything else

you say that you are good looking, so you have somthing that they want, if a girl talk to you is becasue she wants or is interested in something that you are offering, you have somthing that she want, so what do she have to offer you?, don't be humble about being good looking, people will make you beleive that you have to be humble( fuck those people). youdon't have to give that thing you have so easily, you allready giving her someting, let her prove herself that she deserve it.

the value you have to offer is the value you give to yourself, not just about looks, now you work in yourself you focus in the things that you want adding more value to you, more girs would be interested in you, do you feel anxiety the next time?
no, you allready giving them somthing, look for what they have to offer you to deserve you.

In a perfect world maybe, but women can feel and see straight through that shit, no amount of covering it up will really hide it.

_________________
"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."

yeah, and put in a mask will cause more problems, eventualy you get tired of the bullshit and start to hate people for making you wear that mask, i get that advice about smiling more and be more friendly at the end i did'nt whanted to get out of the house

*shrugs*

I'll say it once more...if you know what subtle signs to look for, you can draw confidence from knowing that you KNOW she is attracted to you. Geez guys...it really is that simple.

_________________
EVERYTHING in life is conditional...EVERYTHING.

Pimposophy Revisited is now finally available on Amazon in all territories!

yes is simply, freespirit says that he have anxuiety, to me it is becasue he does't know the value he have, so he can't accept that he is good looking, and he feel like he has to do other things to make the girls attractd to him, in reallity he allready did the job he just don't see it becasue of his own limitations

Wow people, blowing this topic up. I left him with my advice as a woman, and on being approached by women, just let him figure it out and do it himself now, he's a big boy. Can't have too many opinions or he'll get side tracked and won't even hear his own voice.

Alright guys, you heard the little lady...ermmm...monster...let's CLEAR OUT!

Sorry for confusing you even more, Sniper! Hopefully you and LM can get your head screwed back on straight again.

_________________
EVERYTHING in life is conditional...EVERYTHING.

Pimposophy Revisited is now finally available on Amazon in all territories!

Fair enough, I just wanted to save him some grief, I've spent many a time trying to cover up my flaws to no avail rather than embrace them and move forward from there.

_________________
"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."

100% agree.

When I know (pretty sure) that a chick diggs me, sexually. I don't feel (or hardly feel) nervous or unsure to start getting physical with her.

Yet when i'm unsure, or don't know if she diggs me sexually. I'm much more nervous, and hesitant to start getting physical. Thus my "moves" are also less smooth/good and strong. They then have way more doubt and hesitance behind them. I guess the uncertainty and "fear" of encountering rejection does that, to me.

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There is no individual doer of any action or deed. Yet deeds are done and actions happen.