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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:38 pm 
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Hey guys this is an update of my relationship with the girl from viewtopic.php?f=18&t=4475&start=20. We've been dating for a while and exclusive for a few months. Up until now we've been heavily into each other and happy, spending the majority of our free time together (her choice and initiation), and in love. Now stuff has come up though.

Recently we went on a spring break trip together (missions and community service). She was going into it wanting to get close to new people, become deeply connecting, and see people come to faith. Throughout the trip she felt like she was missing out on group activities, not having deep conversations, not being impactful enough, and etc. She was upset that people were giving us space and that we'd often wind up together, like at dinner and felt that people weren't going to open up to her because we went on the trip as a couple. She pushed me away hard and I became confused. No pda was allowed during the trip, but she'd kiss me (she initiated) when we got moments away from everyone, like grabbing things from the garage. This confused me because she barely said much to me when we were with our group.

We got back and she wanted to talk about it. She said up until that point everything was rainbows and she never doubted that she would marry me, she said she knew even before we were dating. She said that week felt wrong. She said she wanted space and felt like I was being needy and not giving it to her. I told her she went from being happy and lovey-dovey to mean and uncaring without an explanation and that I became confused. She said she was annoyed that I kept trying to dig for what was wrong or how she was feeling. She told me every past trip she's been on she had been going through relationship break-ups and my behavior brought up a lot of negative emotions. She told me she wanted to not care about how her boyfriend felt and wanted to impact people's lives, but felt that our relationship was blocking people from bonding with her and opening up. I told here that was silly since even when she pushed me away, it didn't change people's perceptions and only strained our relationship. I didn't take responsibility for being needy but blamed her for changing the dynamic of the relationship without explanation, and she didn't like that. Before we'd constantly talk about our future together, and we've made plans for later on in life like living together since we're graduating college. Now she has doubts and cautioned against talking like that.

Not sure how to get back to normal, especially with the following situation.

One of the guys in our group took quite a liking to her and she took some liking to him. She spent a lot of time with him since she was in his small group for nightly discussions and the spent a lot of time doing work together in our normal, bigger group. She basically called him cute and was clearly into him, although I'm not sure that she consciously knows this. He made every effort to be around her and tried to get a lot of touching in (arms, space). I do not know the best way to deal with this. Should I talk about boundaries and cheating in general terms? Should I even mention their interactions and him (probably not)? I am reminded of Kidd's story the shove of insecurity and want to avoid such a situation.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:05 pm 
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I'd fall back to previous phase, if not all the way back to one date / week.
If a woman doesn't put in the effort anymore, then let it be so.

A woman may try to on/off so I'd never put her straight back to relationship phase
if she jumps off. She would start from the bottom rung, again.
It's a reset button.

I'm not you tho...

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'You must love in such a way that the person you love feels free.' --Thich Nhat Hanh

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:23 pm 
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foofatron wrote:
Not sure how to get back to normal, especially with the following situation.



What you really mean is back to being needy and codependent. Girls are needy by nature, a man being needy though conveys weakness to them. If you're as emotionally weak or potentially weaker than she is how can she feel like she can trust or depend on you? You're pushing her away by the way you're being with her. You don't mention your age but I'm going to guess you're fairly young, now would be a good time to start nipping this in the bud. I would do what Jared said and just give her a lot of space. You were trying to fix her emotions for her rather than letting her feel however she felt, she felt judged and as if you were making her feelings wrong and making it her fault for how you were now feeling. You're afraid to give her space bc you're afraid to lose her but paradoxically smothering her when she needs space is going to be the exact thing that makes you lose her. That's not a bad thing either btw even though I realize its hard to imagine that right now, it will be an opportunity to shift your perspective and grow/mature emotionally when it happens. If you treat it as such you will have progress in your life rather than recreating this same relationship with the next girl.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:38 pm 
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Quote:
Not sure how to get back to normal, especially with the following situation.


Dump her ass...she'll get back to normal REAL quick :twisted:

But this is the extreme version of what Jared said...a hard reset versus a soft one, if you know what I mean ;) 8-)

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Last edited by The Kidd!! on Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:00 pm 
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The Kidd!! wrote:
Quote:
Not sure how to get back to normal, especially with the following situation.


Dump her ass...she'll get back to normal REAL quick :twisted:


:lol: :lol: :lol: Awesome!

A Chinese joke comes to mind:

"Doctor doctor, when I eat bananas, I shit bananas.
And when I eat vegetables, I shit vegetables.
How will I get back to normal?

"Well, you could eat shit from now on."

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:38 am 
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luciddream wrote:
foofatron wrote:
Not sure how to get back to normal, especially with the following situation.



What you really mean is back to being needy and codependent. Girls are needy by nature, a man being needy though conveys weakness to them. If you're as emotionally weak or potentially weaker than she is how can she feel like she can trust or depend on you? You're pushing her away by the way you're being with her. You don't mention your age but I'm going to guess you're fairly young, now would be a good time to start nipping this in the bud. I would do what Jared said and just give her a lot of space. You were trying to fix her emotions for her rather than letting her feel however she felt, she felt judged and as if you were making her feelings wrong and making it her fault for how you were now feeling. You're afraid to give her space bc you're afraid to lose her but paradoxically smothering her when she needs space is going to be the exact thing that makes you lose her. That's not a bad thing either btw even though I realize its hard to imagine that right now, it will be an opportunity to shift your perspective and grow/mature emotionally when it happens. If you treat it as such you will have progress in your life rather than recreating this same relationship with the next girl.


She hasn't felt this way before, she said it was on this trip. Logistically it is kind of hard to give her space since we have the same friend group and we are leaders in the same club which we see each other at least twice a week and plan together. I want to give her the space she needs, but how can I do that when I'll be seeing her multiple times a week by default? Should I withdraw from the friend group and hangout with different people?

I've also been sleeping over almost every night (her invitation), and think she may still invite me over out of tradition.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:54 am 
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I JUST FUCKING TOLD YOU WHAT TO DO

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Remember where you are...you're not gonna get the answer you WANT...you're gonna get the answer you NEED.

Now quit being a pussy and do what needs to be done :evil:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:43 am 
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Was this a trip you really wanted to go to? It doesn't sound like it. There a lot of power dynamics going on the though: your relationship, the group, this new guy, her aspirations, etc.

She said she wants space. Take her to the final frontier and show her why people think the Milky Way galaxy is the inside of a black hole, starting off with some calculus and letting her know that there are many variables. :lol:

In all seriousness, I second dumping her^^^

She asked for space.

I'm like a genie. I grant the wish you wish you didn't ask for. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:38 am 
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foofatron wrote:
luciddream wrote:
foofatron wrote:
I've also been sleeping over almost every night (her invitation), and think she may still invite me over out of tradition.


Are you guys still having sex? I don't want to assume but just the way this is typed it kinda seems like no.

I agree you should dump her, only 2 things can really happen from there. She gets the space she wants and comes crawling back and you see how powerful space is....or....she finds some new guy and you feel lost, lonely, needy, etc and you get to work on yourself and having a great life without her.

Have you been doing any inner work throughout this process? Spending all your free time with a girl that just several months ago was feeling you but unsure about you and possibly going abroad to study is a recipe for disaster. Did she go abroad btw?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:14 am 
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Agree with Kidd and luciddream. I'd just add the following:

Quote:
She told me she wanted to not care about how her boyfriend felt


This is the moment I would've dumped her, on the spot.

Had a similar thing with my soon to be fiance when we were starting out - she felt weird kissing and being lovey-dovey in public, told me she hoped I didn't take it personally that it was a thing she's had her whole life and she'd appreciate my understanding on it. I did, but communicated that it did feel weird for her to act different in "public" than when we were with friends, family, or alone.

She realized how her actions and mindset made me feel, that it wasn't the place to prioritize her feelings of comfort and tradition over my feelings, and she made the effort to work on this issue. Now I'm the one who has to push her away a bit when she gets these romantic moods as we're strolling along the city.

Don't be with a person who sees you as an obstacle to her wants/desires/dreams. Or be with that person, but realize what it says about you and your self worth.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:01 pm 
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luciddream wrote:

Are you guys still having sex? I don't want to assume but just the way this is typed it kinda seems like no.

I agree you should dump her, only 2 things can really happen from there. She gets the space she wants and comes crawling back and you see how powerful space is....or....she finds some new guy and you feel lost, lonely, needy, etc and you get to work on yourself and having a great life without her.

Have you been doing any inner work throughout this process? Spending all your free time with a girl that just several months ago was feeling you but unsure about you and possibly going abroad to study is a recipe for disaster. Did she go abroad btw?


We never have due to beliefs, but have done everything but. We've fooled around multiple times since this trip and for some reason she's had the best orgasms ever and raves about how I know her body and touch her. Since we've done this and I already tried to extend the olive branch prior to the post it feels weird just to straight break it off since it'd be such a flip. I'm going for the fallback, no contact except when she initiates. So far this has been everyday, although I still feel an undertone that feels off.

I've been doing inner work throughout the time and have grown a lot from this relationship, but some things like the fear and insecurities are deep seated and have had to been revisited time and time again. I still have a strong desire to control her and really don't even want to chill with my friends over her anymore.

She isn't going abroad anymore, but will be staying close by. Before this trip she has been certain about me and told me countless times in many ways. Things changed a lot once she asked to be exclusive and we became very close.


Aragorn wrote:
Agree with Kidd and luciddream. I'd just add the following:

Quote:
She told me she wanted to not care about how her boyfriend felt


This is the moment I would've dumped her, on the spot.

Had a similar thing with my soon to be fiance when we were starting out - she felt weird kissing and being lovey-dovey in public, told me she hoped I didn't take it personally that it was a thing she's had her whole life and she'd appreciate my understanding on it. I did, but communicated that it did feel weird for her to act different in "public" than when we were with friends, family, or alone.

She realized how her actions and mindset made me feel, that it wasn't the place to prioritize her feelings of comfort and tradition over my feelings, and she made the effort to work on this issue. Now I'm the one who has to push her away a bit when she gets these romantic moods as we're strolling along the city.

Don't be with a person who sees you as an obstacle to her wants/desires/dreams. Or be with that person, but realize what it says about you and your self worth.


What you said about pda and your fiance is EXACTLY us. We've talked and she said she'd work on it and has made some progress. She had bad experiences with an ex and broke down when we talked about it. He did a lot that brought her shame like stick his hands in her crotch in her parents car next to her brother when they were young.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:25 pm 
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Yep...you're going to do this the hard way :geek:

As long as you learn the lesson that needs to be learned in the end, then that's fine :ugeek:

Godspeed 8-)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:50 pm 
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How can I dump her now when I already stated I forgave her, etc before I even made the thread.

What can I say, 'actually I decided what you did was a deal breaker and I'm tired of feeling like you don't consider my feelings. Sure you wanted space on the trip and I didn't give it, but you didn't give a damn about how I felt and expected me to just go a long with it. Yeah we talked about it prior, but I had no idea you meant to that extreme. Even though you've made an effort on pda, it is not enough. I still feel like I'm not really your boyfriend in public and don't like how we barely communicate with each other in a group setting. Sure you want to talk with friends, but why does it always feel like our intimacy and relationship has to be hidden on some level?'


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:26 pm 
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What you're really saying here is:

"I like it the way it is, don't bother me when I'm exploring this realm."

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:42 pm 
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If dumping her will make things go back to the way it was then I'm all for it. But I want to have confidence going in the doing so will likely produce that outcome. Since I already tried to move on from it, told her I forgave her, and talked about it, it makes me concerned that dumping her will cause her to question me and not want to be with me.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:46 pm 
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foofatron wrote:
We never have due to beliefs, but have done everything but.


So she's a virgin then?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:53 pm 
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foofatron wrote:
If dumping her will make things go back to the way it was then I'm all for it. But I want to have confidence going in the doing so will likely produce that outcome. Since I already tried to move on from it, told her I forgave her, and talked about it, it makes me concerned that dumping her will cause her to question me and not want to be with me.


You're very very very attached, you're also clearly really young. This isn't gonna end well in the end for what you ultimately want right now bc it doesn't line up with what you NEED. Have you deluded yourself into thinking you're going to marry this girl potentially? It's clear you're going to run this all the way into the ground, just curious how far you feel willing to take it right now.

How do you feel about the fact that everyone posting here is telling you to let this girl and whole relationship go and you're clenching on with every ounce of strength you can muster up? Do you understand that this isn't a sustainable position?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:00 pm 
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foofatron wrote:
She basically called him cute and was clearly into him, although I'm not sure that she consciously knows this.
Oh my.

foofatron wrote:
How can I dump her now when I already stated I forgave her, etc before I even made the thread.

What​ can i say


'We seem to have different interests.' ... ' I'm not the kind of man you
think I am' ... ' I need to work on my personal development' ...

Because..

1. There is no rule saying that a man needs to be congurant in his actions. And I'm not sure if it is actually attractive.

2. She will find you more attractive. And so will all the other women out there because you will be a more attractive person.

3. Who you spend your life with, who you have kids with is the most important decision of your life. If you're not married you can checkout any time. Please do not marry this girl!!

4. And finally......Your under no obligation to give any reason.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:37 pm 
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luciddream wrote:
foofatron wrote:
If dumping her will make things go back to the way it was then I'm all for it. But I want to have confidence going in the doing so will likely produce that outcome. Since I already tried to move on from it, told her I forgave her, and talked about it, it makes me concerned that dumping her will cause her to question me and not want to be with me.


You're very very very attached, you're also clearly really young. This isn't gonna end well in the end for what you ultimately want right now bc it doesn't line up with what you NEED. Have you deluded yourself into thinking you're going to marry this girl potentially? It's clear you're going to run this all the way into the ground, just curious how far you feel willing to take it right now.

How do you feel about the fact that everyone posting here is telling you to let this girl and whole relationship go and you're clenching on with every ounce of strength you can muster up? Do you understand that this isn't a sustainable position?


When I'm single I feel like I make a lot of progress and came to feel I dealt with a lot of issues. Every time I get involved with a girl lots more comes up that I thought were resolved or new stuff. I still have a lot of feelings and insecurities to come to terms with. Yes I have lost sight of self development because I've been trying to get fulfillment through her. This needs to change.

I had hoped both of us could grow together and be open about our flaws. I've helped her overcome many things like insecurities, shame, etc. I wanted us to grow together, but it hasn't happened much since we've been exclusive. We both grew a lot before we were dating, but since it has felt stunted - probably because I've been focusing on holding onto her tight and feeling good.

I did believe and still do to some extent that we would get married, but I realize how many flaws there are in us and our relationship. I've hoped that we could grow through them.

In the beginning things were flawless, but over time I felt myself vomiting my insecurities into the relationship and losing power. I held all the power in the beginning. I do not believe the relationship can work if I do not change and grow. Hearing your guys input remotivates me to get serious about inner work and not just using it to hold onto the relationship and do the minimum.

It is true, I'm not the man she thought I was. I'm not as strong or mature as she thought I was. I need time away to work on myself. Do I want to let go? No. I want things to go back to how they were in the beginning, but I've since revealed how I am and her perception is now changed. Even in breaking up I would hope that I'd change and we'd get back together and things would be great. I've never fallen for a girl so hard before or felt this way before. It is scary!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:45 pm 
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Jared wrote:
What you're really saying here is:

"I like it the way it is, don't bother me when I'm exploring this realm."


Bingo, hit the nail on the head here.

You have a lot of people here telling you this girl is trouble, and it's not out of a need to keep you single or anything. You've asked for advice, received a unified response from many members here and are ignoring it because she apologized.

Quote:
If dumping her will make things go back to the way it was then I'm all for it. But I want to have confidence going in the doing so will likely produce that outcome. Since I already tried to move on from it, told her I forgave her, and talked about it, it makes me concerned that dumping her will cause her to question me and not want to be with me.


Dump her because you don't want to be with her, not as a manipulative tactic to get her to behave the way you want.

Quote:
Hearing your guys input remotivates me to get serious about inner work and not just using it to hold onto the relationship and do the minimum.


That's exactly what you're doing here though. True inner work begins when you're willing to prioritize honesty over having things stay the same. Honestly going inside and looking at what's there might make you realize that the relationship was or has become a farce. It might not, but you have to be willing to explore that and accept it as a possibility.

Because choosing who you want to be with is the goal of all this, and you can only be as selective as much as you value your self. And you will never be happy in a marriage or long-term relationship if you're in it out of fear and not love. Or if you act mainly out of fear and not love. You're painting this picture of the situation where it seems you need the girl to feel complete. It's a recipe for disaster, as can be witnessed throughout these forums.

Obviously, it's your call though, so as Kidd said, godspeed.

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