| Alchemist wrote: |
| Leo wrote: |
What happened to treating them accordingly.
Only if they deserve it, so far they have yet to deserve that treatment.
| Natural Freedom http://naturalfreedom.info/ |
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| Staunchness http://naturalfreedom.info/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=3760 |
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| Author: | Meraki [ Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:17 am ] | |
| Post subject: | Staunchness | |
Slim asked me about staunchness in a private message, but I figured this might be something valuable to others, and of course other people have good insight too, so I'm putting it here.
Yeah, I'm not sure, but maybe the problem is in how you're thinking about staunchness?
To me, staunchness is fundamentally being closed to interaction, or if you are interacting with someone, then staunchness will make you selfish in your interaction and will make it all about you getting what you want rather than trying to make it a win-win.You're coming from a place of being very staunch, right? The opposite of staunch is not putting forth a lot of effort and being attached. The opposite of staunch is open. Basically, staunchness is an attitude of "well, fuck them." So, lets say you've just read Manipulated Man and you've had your eyes opened to a lot of the shit that women do to men. Maybe (like me) your father was completely and viciously manipulated, and having your eyes opened to that makes you pretty angry and upset. Nothing wrong with that - those kind of feelings are perfectly reasonable. And you can see how this might lead you to have an attitude of "women are all manipulative bitches, so fuck them." Personally, when I had that attitude, I just wanted to avoid all romantic interaction with women, which I did for about 6 months as I digested what it all means and worked on accepting everything and learning to be at peace with it all. About 3 months into my staunch phase, there was this girl who came chasing me down, and no matter how much of a cold shoulder I gave her she just really wanted to be involved with me. In the end I didn't let her, but I remember thinking all sorts of thoughts about how this girl was probably a black-hearted whore who just wanted to sink her fangs into me, even though she hadn't done anything to make me suspicious of that, had been generally quite nice and accommodating, etc. I had this attitude of "fuck her, she's just a bitch, and I don't owe her anything." I can tell you that if I had decided to let this girl become involved with me, it would have only been to get something from her, and I wouldn't have given a shit about how she felt, because well, "fuck her." It would have been all about me getting what I wanted, getting sex, getting her to do things for me, buy me things, etc, and I wouldn't have cared if she was getting what she wanted. I would have been pre-emptive and on the offensive, pressing - get in, get what I want, and get out. Very selfish. The way I see it, the opposite of staunch is open, or maybe a better word might be "carefree". So someone who is carefree is open to interacting with a women and seeing what she wants to give, but still unattached/indifferent to making it work with any one particular woman. Its about being focused on making any romantic interaction into a win-win, where you let the girl give you what you want, and you make sure you give her back what she needs in return. Its about having that maturity to make sure that both parties are being satisfied with the deal, and also being ready and willing to cut off a bad deal that's not going to work for one of the parties. So, a lot of guys who come here seem to start out open to interacting with women, but very attached. Then they "take the red pill" and become unattached (indifferent) but also closed to interaction - aka. staunch. Then finally, when you come to a place of peace, you can move into being unattached, but open to interactions - aka. carefree. And thats the golden place to be. Anyone have any additional thoughts on staunchness, or comments/questions? |
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| Author: | Slim Titan [ Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Staunchness |
Yes, The Kidd!! mentioned that I'm to staunch with myself. In the phase that I'm in, I waiver with openness and slight attachment. I'm not completely indifferent. After I do certain things like take them to court or check them I feel indifferent, I don't act indifferent. However, I'm not indifferent or something internally that keeps me from being carefree with myself. I think you can be closed on the outside and inside. I think you can be open on the outside and closed on the inside which prevents you from acting on things you see all the time. Hence, you'll talk to women or men that talk to you first, but when you reach out you do it incorrectly sometimes. I think it is impossible to be open internally, but closed externally. However, I have not crossed the bridge that would let me see this idea with the aid of experience. I'm also starting to think there is an internal and external for everything. Along with internal staunchness question, what made you quit being staunch? No edit: I'm on my phone |
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| Author: | Aragorn [ Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Staunchness |
Very insightful post. Thanks for posting, Meraki. |
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| Author: | Meraki [ Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:56 pm ] | |||
| Post subject: | Re: Staunchness | |||
Yes, The Kidd!! mentioned that I'm to staunch with myself. In the phase that I'm in, I waiver with openness and slight attachment. I'm not completely indifferent. After I do certain things like take them to court or check them I feel indifferent, I don't act indifferent. However, I'm not indifferent or something internally that keeps me from being carefree with myself.
I'll let Kidd respond to this, if he wants to. I don't know the context or what he meant when he said that you're too staunch with yourself.
I think you can be closed on the outside and inside.
Yeah, I'm not sure its totally parallel, but thats not a bad way to think about it either.I think you can be open on the outside and closed on the inside which prevents you from acting on things you see all the time. Hence, you'll talk to women or men that talk to you first, but when you reach out you do it incorrectly sometimes. I think it is impossible to be open internally, but closed externally. However, I have not crossed the bridge that would let me see this idea with the aid of experience.
Along with internal staunchness question, what made you quit being staunch?
Well, honestly it was taking a step back from trying to work on tactics and trying to get results and instead spending some time just investigating the more spiritual/philosophical internal questions, without feeling like I needed to see concrete external results from the energy I was putting into it. It was just being curious about bigger questions, like 'what am I,' 'why are we here,' 'what is enlightenment,' 'how do I make sense of this experience of being human,' 'why do I not feel like everything is ok as it is?'I did a lot of exploring by reading/listening to stuff from GP Walsh and the Balls Project, Adyashanti, Greg Goode, Osho, and others here and there. You know, at some point you realize that being focused only on perfecting your abilities with women is shortsighted. Like you can have hot women hanging all over you, desperately trying to please you, always thinking of you before themselves, and that might feel pretty damn good for a little while, but that satisfaction is going to run out at some point. You'll start to feel like there's something missing, something gnawing, something just not quite right, because you've only really been paying attention to external, not the internal. Or if you have been paying attention to whats going on internally, its been predicated on doing it because it will lead to the external results you think you want. But if you focus on internal just for the sake of focusing on internal, just because you're curious about those big questions and you want to know the answers and it doesn't matter if knowing those answers makes you better or worse with women, then thats what might lead you toward greater inner peace. And when you're internally peaceful (or at least mostly peaceful), when you're satisfied with your life as it is right now, and you don't need anything to be different than it already is, then being staunch doesn't really make sense anymore. Thats what being indifferent really truly is. Its not just being indifferent about a specific woman, or women in general. Its about being OK with everything exactly as it is. Being indifferent to things being "better" than they are, or "worse" than they are, because everything is fundamentally OK as it is. http://blog.tarabrach.com/2011/10/absol ... table.html -------- “Enlightenment is absolute cooperation with the inevitable.” - Anthony De Mello "And the basic thing to remember is: if life is not becoming a celebration, then something is wrong with you, not with life itself. The old religions said life is wrong. I make you responsible, not life. Life is God. And from there the whole process changes; then something has to be cleaned in you. Something that is hanging around you has to be cut. Chunks of conditioning have to be dropped. You have to go through a surgery." - Osho "Don't seek relief, seek wisdom and truth." - GP Walsh “The Great Way is not difficult for those who have no preferences. When love and hate are both absent everything becomes clear and undisguised. Make the smallest distinction, however, and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart. If you wish to see the truth then hold no opinion for or against. The struggle of what one likes and what one dislikes is the disease of the mind.” ― Sengcan, Hsin Hsin Ming |
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| Author: | Star_Above [ Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Staunchness |
^^ Some great quotes. |
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| Author: | Slim Titan [ Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Staunchness |
Can I get Osho's book for free? |
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| Author: | Alchemist [ Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Staunchness |
After this long relationship with this girl and this other woman fronting on me now that I'm single, I've gone back to that staunchness and 'fuck them' attitude, though I don't see it as selfish, complacent would be more accurate at least in my experience. I was putting in minimal effort with my ex but even that felt like too much, all I think of when it comes to that area of my life now is how much of a pain in the ass and a waste of time it is dealing with them. The way I see it, they will come and go and they'll be lucky if they get 5% from me. |
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| Author: | Leo [ Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Staunchness |
What happened to treating them accordingly. |
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| Author: | Altair [ Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Staunchness |
I prefer the guilty until proven innocent approach saves time and energy. |
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| Author: | Alchemist [ Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:33 pm ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: Staunchness | |
What happened to treating them accordingly.
Only if they deserve it, so far they have yet to deserve that treatment.
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| Author: | GoldenBoy [ Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:46 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: Staunchness | ||
What happened to treating them accordingly.
Only if they deserve it, so far they have yet to deserve that treatment.
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| Author: | Jared [ Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:49 pm ] | |||
| Post subject: | Re: Staunchness | |||
What happened to treating them accordingly.
Only if they deserve it, so far they have yet to deserve that treatment.=Tight ship |
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| Author: | Flux [ Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:00 pm ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: Staunchness | |
Basically, staunchness is an attitude of "well, fuck them."
 I love it. I'm in this stage and I'm really not in hurry to move out of it.
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| Author: | Meraki [ Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:50 am ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: Staunchness | |
What happened to treating them accordingly.
Being staunch is NOT treating them accordingly.Being staunch is assuming the negative about a girl/girls. Being a symp is assuming the positive. Treating accordingly is throwing out all assumptions and just going based on what you observe. |
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| Author: | Leo [ Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Staunchness |
That's what I'm talking about, in relation to what Alchemist wrote. |
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| Author: | Meraki [ Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Staunchness |
Cool. Couldn't tell who you were referring to... 
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| Author: | Alchemist [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Staunchness |
I'm sure this phase will pass, I'm just jaded and angry from the manipulation and hypocrisy. In my previous relationship I believed I'd somewhat done away with only assuming the worst since I reserved some room to give her the benefit of the doubt but the more I experience this bullshit from other women now, the less I feel I can do that. Sometimes I think of my previous relationship and the number of times I let some bullshit slip and regret not returning the favour, because I let my guard down and gave her the benefit of the doubt, not on an extreme level but just thinking for a minute that I should treat her accordingly, yet she turned out to the the worst (how is it that they always get worse?). Jared I'm not sure what that means but where I'm at now, I'm not willing to give any of them the benefit of the doubt since it's been a mistake to do so so far, so I have to put up more barriers and a much tighter screening process (airtight). 
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| Author: | StephenP [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Staunchness |
Fantastic post Meraki Coincidentally, I just recently came back full circle, on a sort of different plane, to this idea you explained so well. And I can't think of a better term than 'carefree' as you put it. As seems par for the course around here, I dove in to Kidd's teachings as well as The Manipulated Man and everything else, had my world flipped upside down, and after the nausea wore off found myself in this 'staunchness' phase. I hated women, for what they had done to me in the past, for how ruthless and conniving they can be, for how they are such opportunists, for everything. "Fuck them all", like some of the other posters said. (but really it is just a hating, or rather, a lack of acceptance of the truth. wink, wink). After living in this headspace for a while though, it sort of lifts without trying and you come to a place of peace with it all and that is where you reach that beautiful state of being carefree. The women come in droves - super cool and fun. However, this lead to a new form of staunchness. This might come off as bragging, but whatever, it's not. Find out for yourself. When you have more women in your life at a time than you can count on one hand, it honestly becomes work. Anything fun in excess starts to feel like a chore. It's kind of crazy to think about but simply out of necessity I was rejecting women the same way they did me (well maybe a little more gently) because I literally did not have time for any more. Here is where the ego that I "had in check" snuck up on me again. My head got big and I started treating the girls I was with kind of shitty. I mean fuck it, if she doesn't like it, I got seven others, right? And the big way it manifested itself was in me putting in literally 0% effort, work, outreaching, etc. I became full on staunch, not because of like at first when I saw the truth of women and reality, but now because of the unique position of abundance this mindset afforded me. Power corrupts. This started affecting me in a lot subtle ways, but most noticeable was that I became so staunch that women completely stopped approaching me and chasing me due to me being so closed off. It was kind of wild. However, it was a good lesson, and taught me a lot of better ways in dealing with women, or any personal relationship for that matter, and it basically boils down to what The Kidd says right in pimposophies: Honesty. But that is another topic. Anyway, staunchness is a phase we all go though which is a good thing, but carefree is ultimately where I believe we want to be. Great post! |
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| Author: | peregrinus [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:05 pm ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: Staunchness | |
StephenP  Well described.
Treating accordingly is throwing out all assumptions and just going based on what you observe. 
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| Author: | Meraki [ Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:02 am ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: Staunchness | |
Nice Stephen.
This might come off as bragging, but whatever, it's not. Find out for yourself. When you have more women in your life at a time than you can count on one hand, it honestly becomes work. Anything fun in excess starts to feel like a chore. It's kind of crazy to think about but simply out of necessity I was rejecting women the same way they did me (well maybe a little more gently) because I literally did not have time for any more.
I know what you mean...
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