Natural Freedom

"................................."

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As I have said, there is something based in the past, I believe, that is as the heart of it. I knew this girl a long time ago, first met her then and was pretty into her. The experience wasn't like it is now, but I did dig her at that time. So, of course, I attached all that ballast from the past to the present version of her. Then mixed it up with some unresolved loss, or disappointment, that I am still unaware of.

I know logically that I don't need her for emotional validation. The thoughts and emotions associated with the loss of her are coming up as anxiety, fear, grief, all this bullshit. Its completely irrational. I didn't experience anything like this when breaking up with my last few girlfriends. And I'm not whoring her up, she doesn't know anything about this. If I had a nuclear option available and could press a button to make all the feelings about her go away, positive and negative, I'd press that button right now.

If I could just clear the bullshit I created about her I would do that, too. That is why I am here, boring everyone in this forum with my bullshit. So I can learn how to get rid of it.

Hmm ok. I will let you with my last tought on this shit. That's enough for me for now.

Just learn to live with it, fully accep it, instead of trying to get rid of it. It's dumb.
Emotions aren't corpses that you can dispose, burn, freeze, send to deep space, etc. It's more like a living thing that you have to acknowledge. Either you: Manifest, Accept, Declare, Write, but NOT HIDE, OR TROW IT AWAY.

What you resist persists.

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GMST

Yudansha, you need to give yourself a shake asap.
This is the worst path you can go down now - take it from me. Why would you be doing it, I wonder? Ask yourself again and again and again till you get the right answer. I recommend you ignore that advice totally, whether you're speaking on IM or in person.
Its obvious I need to completely detach, not easy for some reason.[/quote]

Why is she doing this. Ask yourself...

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All is more simple than you make it.

Just to get some reaction out of her .. maybe to convey that any possibility with me is ephemeral and will not be available to her forever. To give me some additional power in the interaction. I haven't done anything like this yet...
Maybe so she can enjoy what power she may have, or perceive to have, over me. Or, as one friend told me, to reassure herself that I'm not the same scoundrel who cheated on her as had happened with pretty much most of her past relationships.

Truth is, I have no fucking idea why she is doing all this...

How are you going to do that hanging on her coat tails? Do you think anything in your behavior implies that notion to her? She knows you ain't going anywhere. SHOW HER.

Do you want to know what will give you power in this situation? And I mean real power, not some notion of control over her;

Walk away. Pick your pussy whipped ass off the floor, walk away and don't look back.

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All is more simple than you make it.

Never said the emotional hit was something that felt great. Drama, "making progress towards something but never actually getting it," and a million other things can be addictive in their own way.

In both threads you don't seem to want to accept the obvious answer - let her go and walk away, and there's a reason why. Otherwise you would have just done it. It's not because you get so much value out of the friendship where you chat every night for weeks at a time but nothing happens. I'm sure you know that.

The people that gave good advice were responding to your GENERAL question about how IM could be useful.

It seems you are trying to filter it, along with other things you have read, into the actual impetus behind the question: I have a girl I'm attached to and talk to every night etc. - what are some IM techniques to make her like me? That seems like the true heart of it, no matter how long and detailed your explanation is as to why it's not really like that.

Any time the real underlying question is "how can I use indifference and space to win over this girl that's had me by the balls for a long time now," it is inherently contrary to what those things are actually about. They are fundamental ways of being and an outward expression of your own solidified relationship with yourself. They are not cool tricks to gain power in facebook-chat-relationships. Using it to practice does not make sense in this context to me, a context that was not presented with the question.

Attachment is an abstraction. Attachment is not a source, it's a word used to refer to an actual, specific misperception. Noone can tell you what it is but you. My suggestion would be to do the actual introspective work to face it, not just say "I'm attached." There is no one size fits all to becoming unattached. You have to actually see the error. You can't let go of something if you genuinely believe it is the actual source of something you hold valuable. When you see the projection happening the release is natural. It's not hard to stop chasing an object in your dream after you wake up.

Even if you are trying to let go of attachment SO THAT she likes you, it can't possibly happen in a genuine way. It's just a technique then.

Actually walking away would be a good start.

Not because it's a trick to make her like you.

Not because it's the correct thing to do because of some philosophy.

For your own self respect, to show yourself you can, and for your own valuable time.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXz8xMaJi4

Genuinely walking away is obviously the hardest thing to do. I took the Thanksgiving invitation to mean she may have some interest in me. I took the invitation to go in for a drink after dropping her off as a better sign of possible interest.

I don't initiate online or phone conversations with her, haven't been for a while. Any drastic action from me, like totally ignoring her, de-friend on Facebook, etc. will convey that I'm up to something and why. Of course, she knows my position.

Truly you must die* to enter the kingdom, apparently.












Not literally ... just want that to be clear.

Walking away doesn't have to be indefinite. It doesn't mean 'de-friending' someone on FB either. I'm not suggesting cutting her out of your life. I'm suggesting you get on with your life without her. You see the difference? The reason I suggest it is because you're in an imbalanced relationship with this girl. I hasten to call it a friendship because it ain't. Not since you obviously want it to be something else. You're obsessed with the idea of finding actions from her as signs of interest, and with what you are and are not conveying to her, what she's thinking. I'm not being melodramatic for the sake of it; walking away is a clear choice you can make in your best interest. Sometimes in these situations, walking away is really the only thing you can do in order to find some clarity. Why give a damn what she thinks when it's your sense of self on the line. Reclaim it.

Techniques, stacking evidence, being subversive....these things can't help you here because you are so attached to this idea you have of her as a person and of yourself and her as a potential relationship.
You're clinging on, you're following her, and she knows it.

You can't stack evidence with such a high degree of want clouding your judgement.

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All is more simple than you make it.

Yudanhsa, since you'll inevitabley attempt to justify yourself with whatever means possible, I'll bow out and leave you with this;

'As long as you're always out trying to get, you'll fuck yourself over'

- TheKidd(paraphrased)

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All is more simple than you make it.

Julia ? Or Angelina ?

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"The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn."
Alvin Toffler

Do explain GB

I didn't read one post of the thread (brutal honesty time ?), just thought on commenting on Jared's comment.

Look at it as a smiley ?!

I just hope I'm not the only one who sees it

Hint ?

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"The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn."
Alvin Toffler

Well you wouldn't want her to think something is up. What's important is how she will interpret it because it's all about her and what she thinks. /Sarcasm - like Rolan said it's not about some drastic play, but notice the line of thinking. If you put your own priorities first out of self respect a lot of these things take care of themselves. You stop investing time in poor deals.
+1

Also bowing out. Good luck man.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXz8xMaJi4

Don't even know where to begin.

Yuda - you're clearly well spoken and intelligent. Don't hide behind that. People that can write well and can think still have to do the tough inner work just like everyone else. Being good at thinking certainly doesn't give you any sort of leg up or free pass, and it might actually be a hindrance at times.
Quit this. Stop thinking for a bit. Stop thinking that she's giving you signs of interest. Your thoughts on this are neither right nor wrong - they are unimportant and counterproductive at this time.
Wrong. Quit this.
Quit this. There is no buried hidden unresolved loss that you are unaware of that is secretly fucking with you. This is just you trying to take the easy way out, to justify your actions without taking responsibility for them. Take responsibility.

Furthermore, how could something that you are unaware of still affect you - thats non-sensical. Either you are aware of it and it affects you, or it doesn't exist. There are no hidden thoughts running around in your head that you don't know about - thoughts are either there or not. Stop trying to take the easy way out by blaming your problems on something thats not there.

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This is the best thing you've posted. Go there. Go to the FEELING. HOW DOES IT FEEL. Don't run away from the feelings - run directly towards them, into them. Feel them fully.

Oh, and also, read what Flow said. He's a boss and I endorse fully what he said above. And Dali and Rolan did a good job too.

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"The society gives you a map; I give you only freedom. The society gives you character, I give you only consciousness. The society teaches you to live a conformist life ... I give you an invitation to go on an adventure." - Osho

I've been saying all along that I have taken on looking into the cause of all this. I was already dealing with some uncomfortable, regrets from the past ... just stuff that was coming up, memories that popped into my head. All this before the situation with the girl arised. I also pointed out that SHE is also from the past. I had a thing for her then, which I never really got 100% out of my head. But it was just a regret, one of those "oh, well, would've been nice" kind of things. I eventually did get my chance to be with her, but had started seeing a different woman and didn't want to go behind her back. Honestly, I didn't think the other woman would be around as long as she was... it was a mistake and I regretted it. That's the background with the chick now ... a past regret, lost opportunity that suddenly reappeared in my life at a time when OTHER past regrets were already plaguing me.

The notion that events from early childhood, or anytime during one's life, cannot affect them present time is something I don't buy. I don't necessarily think you need to know what they are, but I have no doubt they can affect you.
How is this the easy way out? What's easy about it? The thoughts ARE there, as are the associated emotions.
I get it ... the only way out it through, don't resist. Welcome the feelings, feel them. I'm there. It does work so long as I don't indulge ... that's something a lot of people actually don't get, but I do. It works ... then another wave of stuff shows up, so its on-going for as long as it will be.

I stated way back that this is ego related (obviously). It almost feels like some kind of death.
I've read through all the posts, from everyone, thoroughly. There are some conflicting ideas on the surface, but the general consensus is to move on. Stop analysing her actions/words and just move on. Deal with the internal stuff in the meantime.

You say you get it, but that appears to all be in thought, in your mind. Are you actually FEELING it? Are you actually doing it?
Is that actually what it feels like? Or is that what you think it feels like?

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"The society gives you a map; I give you only freedom. The society gives you character, I give you only consciousness. The society teaches you to live a conformist life ... I give you an invitation to go on an adventure." - Osho

It appears that way ... well I can't actually show you what I'm doing. All I can do is tell you about it. This would probably make for a good thread, separately. The process of allowing thoughts and emotions to arise so as to see them as separate from us. If have a thought of this girl, for instance ... its usually the result of some kind of stimulus. The specific nature of the thought is related to the stimulus. There is usually an immediate feeling in the body and accompanying emotion (e.g. pain in the stomach and anxiety). At that point I am in suffering.

Then, I see (notice, whatever) the thought(s), feeling(s) and emotion(s) from pure awareness. Maybe I'll actively "accept" or "welcome" all of it, usually without "languageing" it in my head ... Typically at that moment the content will subside. If its really bad, i.e. the associated emotions are really intense, I may not be able to do it. I get taken over, like pretty much everyone all the time lives every single moment of their lives.
Well, its dark, depressing, its loss. Its gloomy. Whatever that is.

Yudansha doesn't the sheer amount of time and energy you've spent thinking about this one girl, even writing all of your posts in this thread, make you just a little bit mad?

Imagine that bitch squatted over a toilet, gritting her teeth and straining to squeeze out a big hot loaf of raw shit.

Now tell me if you feel the same way about her.

You need to get her off that pedestal.

interesting. I've had women that wanted me to eat their pussy after they just took a shit.

Yeah right.