Natural Freedom

What tips are there for chatting/conversing with women online? From strangers you encounter in a chat room to deeper/longer conversations with acquaintances over IM, such as Facebook? As much as I really don't prefer this kind of communication, it happens fairly often. How can, it at all, the principles discussed on this forum be applied to that kind of interaction?

Hi Yudansha,

As you know this is based mostly on very subtle observation, analization, stacking evidence (takes time, delayed gratification, your ego out of the game) and it's mostly in real person, mention: --body language, interchange of energy, proximity, tingling feeling in the balls/pennis when near an attractive girl, reciprocation, etc.--

Hmmm... Stand out from the crowd... How? really if you do the things recommended here to become pimp tight, you'll automatically stand out from the crowd without even trying, like a rare form of a superior human breed, and that is the power of mentality alone, sum up to this the clout and the front in place, and you could easily become a monster and didn't even preocupy by this. Another thing, don't follow the typical symp shit if you are considering the girl you like, making it shure she first chose you. On most guys this is an autopilot program of the matrix still instilled and before breaking from it (beware of the senseless chase), they have to analyze it first in their system --observing internally, feelings, reactions-- and do the internal work. This I will recomend to you first to internalize, but you can still play internally and experiment externallty with it, and learn an awful lot.

Quick question: why are you focusing on this? (Just interested by your preference)

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GMST

Good question: I have one on-going conversation that happens to take place online fairly often, but is not only that way. There are a couple other conversations with specific women that happen online as well, more casual but they were met online and I assume more will be as well. Why not become better at it?

Ok that's very good, but in your terms what means "better."

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GMST

I have to agree with Dali on this.

Firstly why would you put yourself in a chatroom? You have no idea who is on the other end.
Total waste of time in my opinion.

IM with a broad that you know (i.e. over facebook) can be a good tool to sell the contract or do some mind fucking,
this is assuming of course that she initiated and sent you the first message and what you write is a reply to that.

I personally would never send a message first on a platform like facebook, it's the equivalent of running after her in the
street (i.e. choosing) and what's more it gives the broad receiving the message POWER because she knows she can
a) delay before replying or b) not respond to the message at all, and they'll be a little part of her mind expecting you
to be frantically wondering about why she has not messaged you back.

If you don't prefer that form of interaction, tell her! Give her some instruction on how YOU want to communicate.

It's good if you just wanna practice your social skills and verbal sparring and you wanna chunk it down so your not trying to focus on 800 things at once.

Once you get good at the banter, it'll be auto pilot and you can transition into nightclubs. The catch is that the words you say don't really matter but you never believe or can stop focusing on it until you get it down.

Honestly, nightclubs are the Super Gravity chamber you will get the most results the fastest that way. Get what to say down and then focus on all the micro calibration that is talked about here, but do it in a high stimulus arena, it will never be more difficult than it is there

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"The heart is deep beyond all things, and it is the man. Even so, who can know him."

I agree with Altair. However, from the limited experience that I have in night clubs, I would tell you to focus on how you respond to your environment first. I am admittedly against practicing conversation bits. However, I admit that there are certain things I say in a certain way to women when they test me. I do this consistently.

Look up some of my posts to Caliboy85 if you want to know more about what I think to train yourself. After three years, I just deleted all that dating profile stuff etc. I haven't gotten rid of Facebook because I have found some value in it. It's just a distraction.

The internet and Facebook are crack or porn for your brain.

Any who, if you want to cut your teeth into some tactics then read all the 2010 posts that I revived and pick up 21st Century Fox by Paradise. The new edition is smoother. The Kidd!! has had a helping hand in making that book, along with some other people of significance that are not on this forum.

That will get you into the mindset of how to talk. Learning when it's appropriate to say those things is a whole different story.

If you really have a problem with being cold and logical then you'll probably get a second pill about how icy you need to be sometimes with women to get your point across.

I don't hang around on chatrooms, not usually, unless its for some specific purpose like a spiritual conversation. That's not what I'm talking about. There are a couple of women I know personally that I wind up having online conversations with. So I know who is at the other end.
I have on occasion initiated IM conversations via Facebook. I'll shout out if I feel like doing so, with no thought of this power struggle you mention. I did, however, ease way back on initiating the conversations and found that she simply did so more often. So now I would say the balance is around 75% her initiation and 25% mine.

Facebook and the internet are useful tools in the right hands, but like anything it's up to the user at the end.

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"The heart is deep beyond all things, and it is the man. Even so, who can know him."

Time to address this post a little more thoroughly. I've read through the Kidd!'s stuff, and am digesting it as I am able... I've seen some of what he talks about in action, seen chicks jockey me, do a purse/coat check thing so as to walk past me, and have a girlfriend do the exact same thing right after... the whole time just occupying my little spot in the room (joint). so I am embracing that stuff and enjoying the experience of seeing is play out. I'm such a newbie at it that there is a lot left to learn and figure out.

Re the typical symp shit. By that I assume you mean initiating the communication? I managed to get that turned around, so that I initiate about a quarter of the time. The original communication started with me, I made First Contact, but after that she initiated about the same as I. After she waived off my (idiotic) statements of 'interest' in her, I let it go with the intention of never initiating again, but she eventually did.

Its not natural to ONLY let someone else initiate contact, or is it? I guess what I would like to accomplish is a demonstration of the most advantageous qualities via the IM, as practice for whenever the next face-to-face occurs.

Follow your gut Yudansha

Experimentation can be very useful

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.

Recently I have restricted all non face to to face comms - email, text and anything else - down to the bare minimum. Strictly business, strictly sparse and strictly space providing.

I rarely initiate, and when I do it's largely impersonal(into which they read whatever they wish, which is what they want to do anyway) and to do with practical matters. If I'm interested in someone, I'm interested in being in their actual presence. Seeing how they move, and witnessing how they express their energy. Furthermore, by NOT engaging in elaborate 'conversation' comms via email, it actually piques their interest in you in that they'll want to be in your physical presence.

The most important thing, however, is that MY energy is better placed by refraining from these comms. I actually feel better within myself the less I engage with long and ambling emails and chats. This is the big point.

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All is more simple than you make it.

Interesting. Actually, Its only been recently that I've gotten into these convos. The woman they are predominantly with told me over the phone that she doesn't have lengthy IM comms with people in general. I could cut the IM sessions out, or way back, and just say I want to return to my normal MO of not spending all damned night chatting online. Which when I think of it is a waste of time, the only reason I got into it was a way to talk to her. IM communication gives rise to confusion, things like sarcasm and other subtleties of communication are routinely lost, etc. She got a bit mad at me once for what she thought were ad hominem attacks, which she totally misunderstood.

I could try to embrace the medium as a way to do some mind fucking, as Voyager pointed out, but I would have to figure out how to do that. Maybe subtle hints regarding other chicks I am either hanging out with or may hang out with ... don't know yet. She probably has a little of that coming, anyway. Her behavior seems inconsistent to me:

- Engaged in nightly conversations, mostly IM but also phone, for 2-3 weeks
- Denied interest in anything romantic, or at least said "we're not compatible romantically."
- Continued the IM convos despite saying she normally didn't do that
- Continued the convos despite not wanting a romantic involvement
- Invited me to spend thanksgiving with her family, which seems to me would be rather uncomfortable given the situation
- Invited me in for a drink after thanksgiving, which, again, is something I would never do with a woman I was only interested in as a friend, so as not to convey any confusing signals.

Its obvious I need to completely detach, not easy for some reason.

You probably get a big emotional hit from whatever you have decided is happening here and whatever you think it means.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXz8xMaJi4

What I think is happening and what I want to be happening, two different things. For that reason the emotional hit is shitty. Its unrequited, one-sided. She likes having me around as a friend, that's it ... although there are some bits of behavior on her part that could be interpreted differently, my gut tells me the former assumption is correct. So the emotional "hit" is fucked up. I got attached and now I have to get unattached.

What happens in the future is up to the future.

Brutal honesty is required.

Why did you actually start this thread? It started with an oh so broad, almost hypothetical question. Not exactly the same picture as is presented now.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXz8xMaJi4

Sorry for my intervention, Flow83, I will let this to you, you more prepared . Just wanted to say something to Yudansha.

Notice the emotional spike Flow83 pointed inside of you, this is the source, but you are veering off whenever you touch it and blame the "attachment". Because you have paradoxical feelings about another feeling.

Previously I asked you what do you mean by "better", because you have one subjective want of the external interactions with woman happening this or that way, and that defines of the "better" if some criteria is met. Now, I will not get so methaphysical here, I know that for you getting better is: actually getting the girl [rather THIS girl]. But under which or what criteria is that? How do you see with her, and how that makes you feel when you see this imaginary shit in your head? You want her, or the feelings you have when fantasizing about her?

Another thing: You accept the feeling of attachment, because it is what it is, right now. Unattachment happens automatically when you see your truth internally. You don't have to get rid of it. But you can go find the source of that energy, is more edifying, but not necessary.

NOTE: the quote marks I used are for: relativity.

You are still avoiding what Flow83 pointed to, though.

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GMST

You held the mirror up before I did my friend (and were similarly deflected)
That's the whole deal. We define our own parameters for what is better or worse.
You really shouldn't be apologizing Dali

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXz8xMaJi4

I guess its the wording. "Spike" throws me off. You mean a high of some kind? There's no high. There's anxiety, grief, that kind of stuff. I realize the chick herself is just a demonstration of a deeper problem. I mentioned on the other thread that its a ego thing. There must be some kind of loss or abandonment, or perceived loss from way back that is hidden to me. So what is going on with this chick is some kind of demonstration or reflection of that. Why other chicks don't trigger this off, I do not know. I think that is at the center of the whole thing.

If I were to "get" the chick, the original problem would seem to go away, because the emotional high of having the chick would mask it. But it would still be there, unhandled, and no doubt show up in some other way. So I have been trying to get to the bottom of this. Does that address the issue of an "emotional spike?"
Yeah, good point. But isn't that the same for anyone here? I mean we meet someone, and they make us feel a certain way. We respond to those feelings and either want more, or don't. When I hung out with her on Thanksgiving, I had a good overall feeling, when I was out of my head and just being present. There was physical attraction, there was affection, there was joy...nothing overwhelming but nice. When I fantacize about her (which I try not to do) I get all the same ... but more intensly. BUT, I also get the feelings associated with how I feel when in the company of other friends, etc.

Like, how being with her might make me look. What it does for my ego. I got in touch with this a while ago.

Wow seems like our heads sometimes are more powerful than the external entities?

Well. You used a word Flow83 used to define one I used, hence the term of subjective and relative. He used high, I got that term form him and I described it as an emotional spike inside of you, I guess we are talking about the same thing. No need to overcomplicate it.

Peregrinus said first follow your gut and that is good to experiment, and I second that. But to me it seems that you are so affraid of losing her company with one "bad move of yours" and that you want a flawless prescription to having her through facebook or IM or whatever electronic mean, and play safe route, that's why you ask for advice so broadly and so ambiguously.

@Internal feelings projected on some other people:

Yeah, that's right on a mental/psychological level. We become somewhat distracted with our own internal projections of people, and when they fail to meet our internal criteria, say --mostly made up, and thus loosing side of the "real reality of the human being" in question-- then we blame the other person for that. It's childish and immature but intrinsically human.

Also if you are unaware of that phenomena, is different too. When you don't know it, it will seem so real form your perspective that it'll hurt you and hunt you for the rest of your life, but in the end is the same for everyone, the only thing that distinguishes one person falling for it, form another that is not, is a belief.

Funny how you seem to get the same feelings with your friends, but you don't ask how to chat with them or asking for advice on how to get them?... Tell me, what does it says about her and you, what makes her different if your feelings and basic psychological needs are being met with other people you don't chase, you just share a warm yet detached company? Can you see you are attaching some illusory value to some girl and want to leech of off her, when you know deep inside you have the internal resources to being a content person without being the whore of the other person emotional validation.

I'm not telling you to forget about her, but to clear the bullshit you created about her.

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GMST