Natural Freedom

Forum for the natural awakening and self-realization of men
It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 5:55 am

All times are UTC+01:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 56 posts ]  Go to page « 1 2 3
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 2:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:56 pm
Posts: 276
Yudansha wrote:
So far that is what I've done ... not talked to her about any of it.
Well that's good, because it has nothing to do with her.
Quote:
This is where I get lost. I'm supposed to not say what I want ... just clam up and let her run the show? Is this a 'method' being employed, like being/acting indifferent?
You had already clammed up. In other words, acted incongruently with your real self.

'I think our relationship could become more than friendship'.

And with that, you've already let her run the show. Is a technique a technique if it's innate?
Quote:
Question then is, reframe if to what?
To the frame that is diametrically opposed to your current one.

Try it, simply as an experiment.

_________________
All is more simple than you make it.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:31 am
Posts: 66
Rolan wrote:
Yudansha wrote:
So far that is what I've done ... not talked to her about any of it.
Well that's good, because it has nothing to do with her.
Quote:
This is where I get lost. I'm supposed to not say what I want ... just clam up and let her run the show? Is this a 'method' being employed, like being/acting indifferent?
You had already clammed up. In other words, acted incongruently with your real self.

'I think our relationship could become more than friendship'.

And with that, you've already let her run the show. Is a technique a technique if it's innate?
Quote:
Question then is, reframe if to what?


To the frame that is diametrically opposed to your current one.

Try it, simply as an experiment.
I said that to her because many of the conversations were taking place via instant message (online). I was trying to get a read, so to speak. I had only managed to arrange one face-to-face. Her phone was dropping calls repeatedly and that was frustrating ... always being cut off by a dropped call. Still was obviously a bad idea.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:31 am
Posts: 66
Quote:
Question then is, reframe if to what?




To the frame that is diametrically opposed to your current one.

Try it, simply as an experiment.
OK, lets take a look at that. Current frame = desire to be with the person, and have that desire reciprocated. Opposite frame = no desire to be with the person, no desire or need for reciprocation.

Problem is, the desire is what is there for me. I can act otherwise, but its a lie, its not what is real. I can't be the first person to have run into this issue. So if I act like I don't care (when I do) that would be a technique. The technique of acting desireless. If I wanted to be with her, but were not attached to it, no crazy, unexplained emotions present, etc. I could come from that place and just let any disappointment come up and eventually run its course, without problem. this case was different.

Am I missing something major here?


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:34 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:18 am
Posts: 1735
Yudansha wrote:
Quote:
Question then is, reframe if to what?




To the frame that is diametrically opposed to your current one.

Try it, simply as an experiment.
OK, lets take a look at that. Current frame = desire to be with the person, and have that desire reciprocated. Opposite frame = no desire to be with the person, no desire or need for reciprocation.

Problem is, the desire is what is there for me. I can act otherwise, but its a lie, its not what is real. I can't be the first person to have run into this issue. So if I act like I don't care (when I do) that would be a technique. The technique of acting desireless. If I wanted to be with her, but were not attached to it, no crazy, unexplained emotions present, etc. I could come from that place and just let any disappointment come up and eventually run its course, without problem. this case was different.

Am I missing something major here?
Your case is not different.

Desire is automatic, you can't control it, nor fake it, it's in our evolutionary machine and have to run.
What we're all are saying is: Drop her story, the story you made in your mind about her. You sill are very affected by it, now sum that to the ephimeral desire you have, you are a time bomb. And that's what's fucking you up the most.

_________________
GMST
:ugeek:


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:11 am
Posts: 823
It will serve you well to not look at the responses guys give as "here are behaviors/tricks you should do to make this particular girl like you or make this situation go the way you want"

But rather -- this is what you need to face, examine, and work through in order to actually become the person who would not have such attachment come up / do these behaviors..

If you project something deeply personal and significant to you (ie worthiness, success as a man, 'completeness,' 'what i've always wanted') onto something or someone, of course you can't just let it go. You need to first see that you're attributing something that is not actually there.

When you see something as an illusion - when you see how the magician does the trick, the 'letting go' happens automatically. Noone looks at the sky and goes "i just can't let go of my belief that the sky is purple" or that it should be purple etc. You have attached a meaning to this that is not there except by your own creation. When you actually see it, you won't need techniques any more than you would need a post it note on a hot stove saying 'don't touch' :)

_________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXz8xMaJi4


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:56 pm
Posts: 276
Quote:
I said that to her because many of the conversations were taking place via instant message (online). I was trying to get a read, so to speak. I had only managed to arrange one face-to-face. Her phone was dropping calls repeatedly and that was frustrating ... always being cut off by a dropped call. Still was obviously a bad idea.
It doesn't matter why you believe you did it, just don't keep justifying it to yourself.
Yudansha wrote:

OK, lets take a look at that. Current frame = desire to be with the person, and have that desire reciprocated. Opposite frame = no desire to be with the person, no desire or need for reciprocation.

Problem is, the desire is what is there for me. I can act otherwise, but its a lie, its not what is real. I can't be the first person to have run into this issue. So if I act like I don't care (when I do) that would be a technique. The technique of acting desireless. If I wanted to be with her, but were not attached to it, no crazy, unexplained emotions present, etc. I could come from that place and just let any disappointment come up and eventually run its course, without problem. this case was different.

Am I missing something major here?
Yes you are.

Yudansha, even if someone could provide for you the greatest, most perfect advice pertaining to your situation, you wouldn't understand it because you are not ready to see it. When I told you to reframe, it had nothing to do with lying to yourself, but everything to do with telling yourself the truth. I told you to reframe so you can see your situation for what it is. What if I told you;

That she is not who you think she is.
That your desire for her is imbalanced.
That the only reason you have an imbalanced desire for her is because you perceive something within her that you believe you lack.
That she has no value to you which you cannot find within yourself already.

If you reframed your mindset, your desire for her may or may not remain, but you wouldn't be in pain about it. In time you'll see all this for what it really is, but not yet.

_________________
All is more simple than you make it.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:46 am 
It's called control OP. That's what you're missing. Get some control of yourself.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:44 pm
Posts: 68
Whats absolutely comical about this thread is the guys that have the most issues on socializing in general are trying to give YOU advice. Please just stop it.
Flow83 wrote:
It will serve you well to not look at the responses guys give as "here are behaviors/tricks you should do to make this particular girl like you or make this situation go the way you want"

But rather -- this is what you need to face, examine, and work through in order to actually become the person who would not have such attachment come up / do these behaviors..

If you project something deeply personal and significant to you (ie worthiness, success as a man, 'completeness,' 'what i've always wanted') onto something or someone, of course you can't just let it go. You need to first see that you're attributing something that is not actually there.

When you see something as an illusion - when you see how the magician does the trick, the 'letting go' happens automatically. Noone looks at the sky and goes "i just can't let go of my belief that the sky is purple" or that it should be purple etc. You have attached a meaning to this that is not there except by your own creation. When you actually see it, you won't need techniques any more than you would need a post it note on a hot stove saying 'don't touch' :)
This explains it perfectly. Awesome stuff, you saved this thread.

Yudansha, you are responsible for your emotions and thoughts about any situation you find yourself in. So yes, you want to be with this girl and this is the experience that you are having and due to the emotion of being attached, when she said she doesn't think you two would work out as a couple or whatever, you had an emotion like rejection come up. The illusion, like flow said, is the idea that you think having this girl as your girlfriend is going to enhance your validation or acceptance as a successful guy. The whole illusion is this idea. That the girl holds the key to your happiness. It's the illusion that no human being can live up to. That's a huge responsibility for that other person. Also the entire idea of being rejected itself is an illusion.

When looking at rejection from the perspective of its just an illusion, at the very most you can consider it a minor disappointment. I am attracted to a girl, she is not attracted to me, ok that kind of sucks, lets move on to someone that is attracted to me.

I liked reading what you had to say and I know where your coming from. We've all been there. The best thing for you to do right now is really look at what flow and I said and move on from it. Just forget about and if resistance does come up just look at it for what it is. It's an illusion that you need validation from her.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:55 pm
Posts: 212
I vote for Flow as second best advice too. :mrgreen:


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:38 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:56 pm
Posts: 276
MattD wrote:
Whats absolutely comical about this thread is the guys that have the most issues on socializing in general are trying to give YOU advice. Please just stop it.
Flow83 wrote:
It will serve you well to not look at the responses guys give as "here are behaviors/tricks you should do to make this particular girl like you or make this situation go the way you want"

But rather -- this is what you need to face, examine, and work through in order to actually become the person who would not have such attachment come up / do these behaviors..

If you project something deeply personal and significant to you (ie worthiness, success as a man, 'completeness,' 'what i've always wanted') onto something or someone, of course you can't just let it go. You need to first see that you're attributing something that is not actually there.

When you see something as an illusion - when you see how the magician does the trick, the 'letting go' happens automatically. Noone looks at the sky and goes "i just can't let go of my belief that the sky is purple" or that it should be purple etc. You have attached a meaning to this that is not there except by your own creation. When you actually see it, you won't need techniques any more than you would need a post it note on a hot stove saying 'don't touch' :)
This explains it perfectly. Awesome stuff, you saved this thread.

Yudansha, you are responsible for your emotions and thoughts about any situation you find yourself in. So yes, you want to be with this girl and this is the experience that you are having and due to the emotion of being attached, when she said she doesn't think you two would work out as a couple or whatever, you had an emotion like rejection come up. The illusion, like flow said, is the idea that you think having this girl as your girlfriend is going to enhance your validation or acceptance as a successful guy. The whole illusion is this idea. That the girl holds the key to your happiness. It's the illusion that no human being can live up to. That's a huge responsibility for that other person. Also the entire idea of being rejected itself is an illusion.

When looking at rejection from the perspective of its just an illusion, at the very most you can consider it a minor disappointment. I am attracted to a girl, she is not attracted to me, ok that kind of sucks, lets move on to someone that is attracted to me.

I liked reading what you had to say and I know where your coming from. We've all been there. The best thing for you to do right now is really look at what flow and I said and move on from it. Just forget about and if resistance does come up just look at it for what it is. It's an illusion that you need validation from her.
Who are you to tell people not to get involved in threads. It works two ways, in general;

1) People who have had experience can comment.
2) People who experience it currently can comment, and help themselves by helping others.

See how that works? Lose the ego.

_________________
All is more simple than you make it.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:31 am
Posts: 66
MattD wrote:
Whats absolutely comical about this thread is the guys that have the most issues on socializing in general are trying to give YOU advice. Please just stop it.
Flow83 wrote:
It will serve you well to not look at the responses guys give as "here are behaviors/tricks you should do to make this particular girl like you or make this situation go the way you want"

But rather -- this is what you need to face, examine, and work through in order to actually become the person who would not have such attachment come up / do these behaviors..

If you project something deeply personal and significant to you (ie worthiness, success as a man, 'completeness,' 'what i've always wanted') onto something or someone, of course you can't just let it go. You need to first see that you're attributing something that is not actually there.

When you see something as an illusion - when you see how the magician does the trick, the 'letting go' happens automatically. Noone looks at the sky and goes "i just can't let go of my belief that the sky is purple" or that it should be purple etc. You have attached a meaning to this that is not there except by your own creation. When you actually see it, you won't need techniques any more than you would need a post it note on a hot stove saying 'don't touch' :)
This explains it perfectly. Awesome stuff, you saved this thread.

Yudansha, you are responsible for your emotions and thoughts about any situation you find yourself in. So yes, you want to be with this girl and this is the experience that you are having and due to the emotion of being attached, when she said she doesn't think you two would work out as a couple or whatever, you had an emotion like rejection come up. The illusion, like flow said, is the idea that you think having this girl as your girlfriend is going to enhance your validation or acceptance as a successful guy. The whole illusion is this idea. That the girl holds the key to your happiness. It's the illusion that no human being can live up to. That's a huge responsibility for that other person. Also the entire idea of being rejected itself is an illusion.

When looking at rejection from the perspective of its just an illusion, at the very most you can consider it a minor disappointment. I am attracted to a girl, she is not attracted to me, ok that kind of sucks, lets move on to someone that is attracted to me.

I liked reading what you had to say and I know where your coming from. We've all been there. The best thing for you to do right now is really look at what flow and I said and move on from it. Just forget about and if resistance does come up just look at it for what it is. It's an illusion that you need validation from her.
Right on, that is what I am doing. Its getting clear now that this is all based in the past. I first met her years ago, and had something for her then, I obviously never let that go. I never had to really face it either, my contact with her evaporated and eventually the woman I WAS seeing then became more involved.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:57 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:31 am
Posts: 66
Rolan wrote:
Quote:
I said that to her because many of the conversations were taking place via instant message (online). I was trying to get a read, so to speak. I had only managed to arrange one face-to-face. Her phone was dropping calls repeatedly and that was frustrating ... always being cut off by a dropped call. Still was obviously a bad idea.
It doesn't matter why you believe you did it, just don't keep justifying it to yourself.
Yudansha wrote:

OK, lets take a look at that. Current frame = desire to be with the person, and have that desire reciprocated. Opposite frame = no desire to be with the person, no desire or need for reciprocation.

Problem is, the desire is what is there for me. I can act otherwise, but its a lie, its not what is real. I can't be the first person to have run into this issue. So if I act like I don't care (when I do) that would be a technique. The technique of acting desireless. If I wanted to be with her, but were not attached to it, no crazy, unexplained emotions present, etc. I could come from that place and just let any disappointment come up and eventually run its course, without problem. this case was different.

Am I missing something major here?
Yes you are.

Yudansha, even if someone could provide for you the greatest, most perfect advice pertaining to your situation, you wouldn't understand it because you are not ready to see it. When I told you to reframe, it had nothing to do with lying to yourself, but everything to do with telling yourself the truth. I told you to reframe so you can see your situation for what it is. What if I told you;

That she is not who you think she is.
That your desire for her is imbalanced.
That the only reason you have an imbalanced desire for her is because you perceive something within her that you believe you lack.
That she has no value to you which you cannot find within yourself already.

If you reframed your mindset, your desire for her may or may not remain, but you wouldn't be in pain about it. In time you'll see all this for what it really is, but not yet.
Yeah, these things are true. whatever got triggered off by my experience with her must be discovered and seen for what it really is. Which, no doubt. is illusionary.


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:31 am
Posts: 66
Had an interesting thought the other day ... I was wondering how it would be for me to have a female friend, and carry on with her in conversations night after night for hours, but have no interest in her romantically. It dawned on me that I simply wouldn't have that. I don't hang around on the computer for hours a day and chat with people, its not my MO. Who WOULD do that? I'm starting to think this woman gets a kick out of the knowledge that guys want her. Everything is a game to her, I suspect. Even if a friendship develops, as it did in my case, its value to her might be only in that it entertains her.

Just some thoughts I had. This is as good a place as any to record them.


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:11 am
Posts: 823
Exactly. It is completely unnatural, and is the exact opposite of what someone who values his time and has women already interested would do. It's not a "technique" to not chat online like that. My old impulse would have been to go off on the fact that you were doing that, but it often makes people defensive and "well why shouldn't I do that if I enjoy it." Better to actually see it for yourself. Also, you don't actually enjoy it. We enjoy the illusion that it is somehow making "progress"

A simple question can be: "If, hypothetically, I knew for a 100% fact that there is no way anything physical could ever happen with this girl, would I do what I am doing here?"

If you value her approval more than you value your own time, you have some things to get straight. Also, it is your actions that show you what you value, not what you say or think.

_________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXz8xMaJi4


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:56 pm
Posts: 276
Yudansha, they all get off on the knowledge that they are wanted, just like us. It's validating. To what degree depends on a persons foundation. Validating to a high degree = weak foundation. Validating to a low or average degree = strong or atleast stronger foundation.

_________________
All is more simple than you make it.


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:31 am
Posts: 66
Flow83 wrote:
Exactly. It is completely unnatural, and is the exact opposite of what someone who values his time and has women already interested would do. It's not a "technique" to not chat online like that. My old impulse would have been to go off on the fact that you were doing that, but it often makes people defensive and "well why shouldn't I do that if I enjoy it." Better to actually see it for yourself. Also, you don't actually enjoy it. We enjoy the illusion that it is somehow making "progress"

A simple question can be: "If, hypothetically, I knew for a 100% fact that there is no way anything physical could ever happen with this girl, would I do what I am doing here?"

If you value her approval more than you value your own time, you have some things to get straight. Also, it is your actions that show you what you value, not what you say or think.
Good observations. If I KNEW there was absolutely no chance in all of Hell's vast creation I would ever, ever have a chance to get physical with this chick, I would remain casual friends and have contact once or twice a month. Just like I do with other women I know, that I do NOT want anything to happen with. And as much as I do, sometimes, get a kick out of the conversations I have with her, it was far more so while I had the illusion of a possible thing with her still running in my head.


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 56 posts ]  Go to page « 1 2 3

All times are UTC+01:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to: 

cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited