Natural Freedom

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:04 pm 
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ahk wrote:
@Leo, I've changed quite a bit in my life, seemingly for the better for the most part. Not going to let a relationship stand in the way of that, wouldn't want to straitjacket myself. My rule on honesty seems more reliable to me, so if the two conflict, i'd break on the other one.
Who am I to try and change your beliefs.

However;

'What do you want from me?'

'Sex and companionship'

Is tantamount to giving one's power away via being totally accessible. Of course this is only my opinion and may not apply to PKT, but it struck me as congruent only with a false idea he had about a specific mentality. Actions speak louder than words, and to me he explained himself unecessarily and got himself with his back to the wall. The only reason she was allowed to ask the question was because he was so available to her(phoning for hours per day). Hence, know your battleground.

'What do you want from me?'

'Nothing, nothing at all'.

Somehow, this would be a more honest answer HAD Pkt actually been congruent with the idea he has about himself. Had he actually been it, had he actually been indifferent and was merely content to be in the moment with this girl, rather than fixating on an end product. And end product, might I add, which she had clearly not earnt. And perhaps she felt that he had not earnt it either, hence the result going against Pkt.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:24 pm 
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The Pokemon Trainer wrote:
Meraki wrote:
Plus, take this whole friendzone idea to the next level. Try putting a girl in the friendzone...
I like this idea... Care to elaborate a bit more? Perhaps, share an anecdote?
No one's going to share a story? My story isn't a pure guy-friendzones-girl story but it should suffice.

As of now, I'm a broke-ass college freshman that lives in a dirt-cheap government-subsidized dorm. This dorm has absolutely NO hot water, NO air conditioners (I'm in a country near the equator), and NO private showers, aka it completely sucks. The group that I will be talking about live in expensive, nice apartments that are in the same building. They each have their own apartment.

Now, three days ago, I happened to make friends with a person with the same major as me. He happened to be childhood friends with 2 other guys and a girl. Once I meet the group, we completely hit it off to the point where they allowed me to stay in one of the guy's apartment on the same day that we met.

Fast forward to two days ago, night. I'm in the girl's apartment, just me and her and someone else from the group that randomly goes in and out waiting for some take-out. She and I are just lying on her bed (other guy is sitting on a chair when he's not gone), talking about random relationship stuff. At some point in our convo, we agree not to date each other, as it'll ruin the group's dynamics.

Do I particularly care? Not really. Fast forward to today, she has paid for a lot of my food when we go out to eat, allows me to raid her fridge, occasionally pays for taxi, uses her female wiles to get us rides (amongst other stuff), and will allow me to sleep on her sweet bed in her apartment, regardless of whether she is also sleeping on the bed or not. Hell, once she gets a bf, she says I can use her apartment when she's out with him. All I'm missing out on is casual *** and that can be easily found elsewhere, if it doesn't start anyways. All I have to do is act like normal and stay with the group. Overall, it's a win-win relationship for me.

Don't refuse all platonic relationships just because you experienced a single bad one (If you've experienced several, don't take offense. I'm just using the information in this thread). Like Kidd says, treat people accordingly.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:33 pm 
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@Leo, when girls ask that to me or 'what are you looking for' or even 'what do you do', I sometimes go with 'I'm looking for sex and money. Are you rich? No? Oh well then...' Or even more blunt 'I'm looking to get laid. You single?' Never felt any power slip away. It's just in your mind I think.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:12 pm 
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Well, context is everything :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:16 am 
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Well...looks like all the bases have been covered. 8-)

PKMN...slackin on your push-ups I see...just as easily as you've made progress you can easily lose it by not maintaining it. Stop fuckin up! :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:46 am 
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The Kidd!! wrote:
Well...looks like all the bases have been covered. 8-)

PKMN...slackin on your push-ups I see...just as easily as you've made progress you can easily lose it by not maintaining it. Stop fuckin up! :mrgreen:
8-)

[ img ]

Flow hit the Nail on the Head with his mention about that whole "skype" thing.
if you adamantly make it clear what your intentions are and she still is willing to get into your "kill zone" then guess what?

:twisted:

PS.
you are acting like a "bo Staff" instead of a more flexible "green Bamboo" branch. have you ever seen Game of Death? notice how Bruce Lee fights each opponent as he proceeds up the pagoda.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:28 am 
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I must say Pkmn Trainer friendzone isn't so bad I actually enjoy it the expectations of it all is taken out the equation no pressure on either side and you're free to be yourself (not that you shouldn't be in the first place). I have been friends with my clients for a long time now 4 years running I think. It was actually the beginnig of this year I dropped expectations (As Grinus likes to call it SPACE) of anything happening. I still benefited though as far as her feeding me and helping me out when I have absolutely no other option left I love having female friends this relationship is a lot less of a headache than being in a serious one.

The funny thing is when I dropped all expectations of anything happening especially since it ran as long as 4 years without seeing any action unexpected things can happen, I was like you once but unfortunately before this it was more technique to see if I could get the girl. Also she talked a lot of shit about sex all the time I was with her and when she finally put out I was actually disappointed with during as it was not all that I thought it was. don't get me wrong though shit was wet!! and it felt good but overall meh...(it was also 2+ years since I've seen action that could've been the trigger for as well).

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2879

You're mindset is different now you should welcome it you never know what surprises may come from it.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:08 am 
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Leo wrote:
The least PKT can do now is finish how he started.
Quote:
Firstly, I appreciate the fact that you were able to be honest with me.

Unfortunately, a platonic friendship between us is absolutely not possible. Like not drinking and being a vegan, not having platonic female friends is one of my strongest convictions. I believe such relationships are dishonest.

I can honestly say that I enjoyed getting to know you. I wish you the best.
PKT made himself irrevocably clear and should stick to his 'conviction' for now, even if he chooses to drop it in future.
Exactly.
Flow83 wrote:
You are speaking as though the fact that you guys stated "sexual intentions" on skype means anything, as though it were the same thing as if you were already having regular sex with her.

Seems like you also took the fact that she said something like "Just as friends" at face value -- I hope you realize that none of this means anything. If we were to do a 'show of hands' for how many times we have all heard 'not looking for anything' or 'just hang out some time' etc only to lead to immediate sex, or girls saying overtly sexual things that actually meant nothing, we'd probably be looking at 100%

This may come off harsh but i'm fairly passionate on the topic and hate to see men do it to themselves so here is my take:

You two were not ANYTHING until you met in person.

It was in all likelihood an hour+ per day projection fest of you two on each other on the phone and the emotional hit of the whole thing. You were NOT in a 'sexually charged relationship' and to me, this cannot be described in terms of something that was one thing with a girl that turned into another thing. It wasn't an actual thing.

Probably 10 minutes of the actual face to face interaction is all that is required because then you are dealing with a real human being and their energy right in front of you.

I don't know how this could ever happen but imagine it hypothetically.

You get in some argument with some dude over the internet and skype for two hours every day talking about how much you disagree and how it's all set an agreed upon: you're going to fight and you're going to kick his ass when you meet!!

Then you show up and he's a total pussy and can't make eye contact, clearly does not want to fight, you could kill him in one punch, and he is sobbing.

Do you say 'oh wow what happened, he was such a tough strong dude and now he's not' or do you say OH you're not at all what you presented. Do you think 'well but surely we were going to fight because we SAID we would?'

Now that is extreme and i'm not saying you were the equivalent of that guy but the analogy stands:

ALL of the 2 hours per day is, quite literally, irrelevant and completely obliterated within a pretty short time of a face to face interaction. Once you are dealing face to face with the person it is essentially like starting over, except there is a built in potential to be instantly seen as a bullshitter for what you presented in your words/profile/whatever.

Have you heard of these stories of people who 'chat online' for like YEARS and then they meet in person and it's instant fail?

Ever email or have correspondence with someone in a professional context for example and then you actually meet after all the emailing/planning/whatever?

Now the real reason for the emphasis to me is, you are a man and therefore your time is inherently valuable. Consider what can be accomplished in 2 hours per day of focused investment of almost any goal/skill/etc and compare ROI.
I agree with most of this, but back then I wasn't concerned with your points because I was enjoying my conversations with her. We had fun. And for me, fun is a good time investment. I wouldn't have bothered conversing with her if I didn't enjoy every second of it.

I am well aware of the value of my time, and so was she. I respect my time and because of that, so did she. She was punctual on our date and on all of our online meetings.
Prodigy wrote:
you are acting like a "bo Staff" instead of a more flexible "green Bamboo" branch. have you ever seen Game of Death? notice how Bruce Lee fights each opponent as he proceeds up the pagoda.

I think you are right. I'm still too rigid and staunch. I agree with the staff metaphor. Without enough give, a staff will break.

Bruce Lee himself likened his punches to ball-and-chains, and he said that karate punches were inferior because they were like iron bars and weren't fluid enough.
The Kidd!! wrote:
Well...looks like all the bases have been covered. 8-)

PKMN...slackin on your push-ups I see...just as easily as you've made progress you can easily lose it by not maintaining it. Stop fuckin up! :mrgreen:
Yeah, I can see that regular maintenance is important now.

I've been out of the game for quite a while... I've been pretty damn busy with practicalities of life. Plus I don't have much experience handling broads post-pimp tight experiment. The girl in question is the only one I've even bothered with since then. Just don't meet any women.

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“I learned this, at least, by my experiment; that if one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours. . . ."

-Thoreau's Walden


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:46 am 
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Quote:
Just don't meet any women.
NO :ugeek:

Just be more mindful of the congruency between your words and your actions. :geek:

You know and understand the program...now EXECUTE! :twisted:

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EVERYTHING in life is conditional...EVERYTHING. :ugeek:

Pimposophy Revisited is now finally available on Amazon in all territories!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:25 am 
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The Kidd!! wrote:
Quote:
Just don't meet any women.
NO :ugeek:

Just be more mindful of the congruency between your words and your actions. :geek:

You know and understand the program...now EXECUTE! :twisted:
I left out the "I" by accident. I just don't meet any women. They don't show up in my life because I'm not very outgoing and I don't network very much. So, it's quite rare that I meet a woman who lives up to my standards and that I find attractive.

But yes, after assessing it properly, I can see that I was probably confusing as hell to her because of said incongruity.

Also, I looks like it's time to give dad that call I've been putting off for months.

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“I learned this, at least, by my experiment; that if one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours. . . ."

-Thoreau's Walden


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:18 am 
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Mirror rule-style? Ok yeah that's more hardcore than doing it with random women or bartenders :shock:.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:37 am 
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They don't show up in your life because your defense system has rendered you inflexible and you cannot see the wood for the trees. You're using some crude type of anti-gravitational tech and nothing will land because you won't allow it. It's the Planets that orbit the Sun, remember that. The the Sun still keeps them all at arm's length, but without the Suns gravity the Planets will no longer orbit the Sun.

It has little to do with being 'outgoing' or 'networking', but rather refining your inner world and therefore affecting your outer one with the odds in your favour. Difference between a Hoe and a Pimp? The Hoe networks and hussles all day, the Pimp sits back and orchestrates. Just like the Sun.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:28 pm 
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Leo wrote:
They don't show up in your life because your defense system has rendered you inflexible and you cannot see the wood for the trees. You're using some crude type of anti-gravitational tech and nothing will land because you won't allow it. It's the Planets that orbit the Sun, remember that. The the Sun still keeps them all at arm's length, but without the Suns gravity the Planets will no longer orbit the Sun.

It has little to do with being 'outgoing' or 'networking', but rather refining your inner world and therefore affecting your outer one with the odds in your favour. Difference between a Hoe and a Pimp? The Hoe networks and hussles all day, the Pimp sits back and orchestrates. Just like the Sun.
I see what you're saying. Indeed, what you speak of is one of the basic facets of square pimping; something I seem to have forgotten.

The good news is I have many things in the works that should create said effect in the very, very near future.

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“I learned this, at least, by my experiment; that if one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours. . . ."

-Thoreau's Walden


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:40 pm 
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The only female 'friends' I have are girlfriends of my buddies - I use them as sources of fresh pussy - they always have friends that I do:) If you play it right it won't have any bad backlash for you.

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Laying on the floor in a pool of blood and cum
My demons lay beside as I kiss them one by one
Then on that day I met a force that nothing will compare
I was born the son of evil when I fuck the devil there!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:37 am 
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The Pokemon Trainer wrote:
it's quite rare that I meet a woman who lives up to my standards and that I find attractive.
.
Why do you look for that? are we marriage now?.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:11 am 
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rant wrote:
The Pokemon Trainer wrote:
it's quite rare that I meet a woman who lives up to my standards and that I find attractive.
.
Why do you look for that? are we marriage now?.
Exactly

_________________
Laying on the floor in a pool of blood and cum
My demons lay beside as I kiss them one by one
Then on that day I met a force that nothing will compare
I was born the son of evil when I fuck the devil there!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:47 pm 
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PMT wrote:
Care to elaborate a bit more? Perhaps, share an anecdote?
Ray wrote:
No one's going to share a story? My story isn't a pure guy-friendzones-girl story but it should suffice.
Patience, patience. I do have a business to run over here... ;-)

----------------------

So, this story is about as classic as it gets. A while ago, my housemate was dating this girl for several years, but she was off at college for most of that time, while he was here working (he was a fair bit older than her). So she would come back for winter break, summer, etc, and live with him. I moved in with him a couple months before girlfriend graduated from college and moved back here, and she moved in full time.

Side note: My housemate just 'gets' a lot of what we talk about here naturally and intuitively. Like if I were to try to explain concepts from here to him he wouldn't necessarily follow or even agree, but then if you watch his behavior, he does an awful lot of what we espouse here just as his natural reaction to things.

Anyway, once girlfriend moves in full time, she starts nesting and getting more and more demanding and bitchy. I'm getting kinda fed up with having her living with us, and my housemate is also getting more and more annoyed with her. So, after about 4 months of her living with us (I think they had just hit 3 years of dating), he decides that he doesn't want a girlfriend at all, that its too much work, too much time commitment, and he just wants to be free of all that.

So, he tells her he's breaking up with her and she has to move out, but that he still likes her and is totally happy to hang out with her, and that he still really likes her as a friend, but he just doesn't want to be in a relationship with anyone, and doesn't want to spend as much time with her. So, straight friendzone. None of this is a technique to achieve some goal or anything - it was all 100% congruent. She is devastated and moves out.

Fast forward 3 weeks and they start hanging out again, but my housemate is firm on not getting back together even though she tells him she wants to date again every time they see each other. He maintains the hard friendzone boundary for about 1.5-2 months. During this time, they hang out 1-3 times per week, and it starts getting more and more ridiculous.

She drops $50 on amazing ingredients (and she was only working part time waitressing) and comes over to cook him a super-gourmet four course halibut dinner and clean the entire kitchen up afterwards while he chills on the couch digesting. He plays poker once a week, and she just volunteers out of the blue to buy him a pizza and bring it to him at poker night (and since its guys night, she gave him the pizza and turned around and left). She gives him massages and cleans his bathroom for him, and comes over and makes him french toast in the morning. All without asking him to do anything for her other than just let her hang out with him. She offers to do something for him probably about 6 days a week, but he only agrees to let her do these things for him maybe 2-3 times a week because he doesn't want to spend that much time with her.

Anyway, after about 2 months of this, they start sleeping together again, but first he limited it to 1 sleepover per week, then 2, then it bumped up to 3, then 7 or 8 months after he made her move out, she's back over at the house probably 5 or 6 nights a week. Through this entire time he insists they are not in a relationship, just dating, but I told him that if she's sleeping over at the house more than 2-3 nights a week, and he's not allowed to date any other girls, then that means she is his girlfriend again, to which he acquiesced. But to her, he never let her call him her boyfriend or refer to them as 'in a relationship.'

---------

One important note I have about this is that he was 100% congruent the entire time. None of it was a technique to get her to change her behavior or do something for him (ie. manipulation). He really did want to stay friends with her, but really didn't want to be in a relationship with her.

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"The society gives you a map; I give you only freedom. The society gives you character, I give you only consciousness. The society teaches you to live a conformist life ... I give you an invitation to go on an adventure." - Osho


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:55 pm 
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Good story Meraki

I would comment on only one thing.. To him, she is not his girlfriend.. she is a friend who is a girl who he has sex with.
You were minorly projecting there.
Meraki wrote:
Through this entire time he insists they are not in a relationship, just dating,
He is absolutely correct

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:19 pm 
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I see your point, and how you came to that conclusion. Like I said, this was a little while back, shortly before I found this forum and the ideas here. So, I was "still in the matrix" at that time. So yes I was projecting on him.

Actually when I started reading this forum, part of what got me to believe the stories I was reading here was that I could think to this housemate and see many of the same things playing out with him.

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"The society gives you a map; I give you only freedom. The society gives you character, I give you only consciousness. The society teaches you to live a conformist life ... I give you an invitation to go on an adventure." - Osho


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:33 pm 
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Good story Meraki.

She really tries hard to regain access to her superball. (Giving a little to take a lot afterwards.)

Maybe I still need to work on this issue, so I'll drop it for evidence.

She evidently did it to pussy him up and get accustomed to having a good housewife.

Then she would probably get fat, pregnant or pushing him to marry or get security by one means or another.

My question is if that happens to me, would I still let her in my life as a friend, a fuckbuddy, knowing her motives (or my thought of them) ?

As of today's opinion, I would get rid from jump of her coz I don't take advantage of someone (she doesn't really want to do it, so I'll spare her and myself some later drama). But that applies to everybody probably. (which probably explains my situation ... apathy ?)

I will ponder on this. :ugeek:

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