Natural Freedom

Ok, I've been away from the forum for a while, partly due to work craziness, partly due to exploring other things and thinking and reflecting on my own for a while.

Anyway, I have a situation now with a girl, and I've come up with what I want to do, but I'm curious what feedback/insights guys here have on how to best approach it. Also, I'm betting that someone will have some sort of insight/comment that will hit me upside the head like a ton of bricks, but that would of course be a good thing, so bring it on.

Here's the situation: This girl is not really in my social circle, but we have a few mutual friends, and I caught her eyeing me once about a month ago at a bar. She's cute but not super-hot. Pretty nice body, fit, late 20s. We were both on a big saturday night pub crawl where everyone was dressed as Santa, and I randomly walked up to her and used the cheesiest pickup line I could think of just to give myself a laugh: "Hey Santa - got any presents I could unwrap later?" said with over the top tongue-in-cheek innuendo. She laughed and immediately opened up to me, body language, facial expression, everything. We ended up talking for about 45 minutes, then dancing for quite some time at the next bar on the pub crawl, and then at the end of the night I asked for her phone and put my number in it and told her she should call me.

She messages me on wednesday, message back and fort a few times, and I invite her to go out with me and a big group of my friends on friday night, which we do. We hop around to a few bars, get pretty tipsy, and end up at a rowdy dance club. We try to dance for a couple songs, but the dance floor is too rough, and she says to me "Its too hard to dance - we can go back to my place now."

So I oblige. Its about a 15 minute walk back to her house, and somewhere along the way we stop on a dark part of the street and make out for a bit up against a car, then continue on to her house. We go inside and she takes me to her room, and we get down to business. In the morning, I wake up hung over (she was too, I'm sure). She makes me eggs and coffee, and then I walk back downtown with her to get her car and she gives me a ride back to my place. I just tell her I'll catch her later when she drops me off - nothing cutesy or any sort of kiss goodbye or anything.

That night we both show up at the same houseparty. I knew she was going, but didn't talk to her about it or about going together. I don't see her when I walk in, but she sees me, so theres a bit of tension/awkwardness when I finally run into her and chat with her a bit. We already have separate plans with our respective friends for the night.

Sunday rolls around, and she texts me to ask what I'm doing. I tell her my plans and ask if she wants to join me. She says yes, so we spend the whole afternoon together doing some athletic stuff. I feel like I may have gotten a touch sympish on sunday, but I tried to quash it and I did my best. After hanging out all afternoon, she comes with me to my buddy's housewarming get together. Its pretty chill and by 9pm I'm tired, I can tell she's tired, and I know she gets up at 6am to make it to work, so I suggest that we go. I drive her home, and we make out for a minute in my car before she gets out and goes into her place.

The past two nights (monday and tuesday) we've texted a bit, and its the same pattern. She asks me what I'm doing, I tell her my plans, she tells me that she's actually going to be doing something nearby and maybe we could meetup. I tell her, "cool, if it works out it works out." Both nights she has ended up not meeting up with me, even though I think it would have been easy enough for her to do. I don't make any effort to change my plans to meet up with her though - I just tell her she's welcome to come to me, and she doesn't. Maybe purely misunderstanding, maybe she's trying to get me to pursue her.

Now, I've decided as of today that I don't want her as a girlfriend (more re-affirmed that don't really want any girlfriend at all), but I would be happy to have friends with benefits/casual/low commitment. Either just meet up for sex only, or maybe as much as one night a week of going out, partying, etc in addition to sex. More than that and I'm not interested. If she's not cool with something like that, then I'm fine just friend zoning her.

So, my plan is to not try to meet up with her tomorrow night (Wednesday), and maybe see if we can hang out either thursday or friday night. I was thinking I'd invite her to meet after work for a drink somewhere. Then I'd just be super upfront/explicit and tell her that I don't want to be in a relationship, but I would be fine with something casual/non-exclusive, or just being friends.

I'm basically planning on saying that I've been thinking about it this week and I've decided that I don't want to get into any sort of committed/serious relationship, but I think she's cool, I think she's attractive, and I enjoy spending time with her, so I would be happy to keep dating casually/hooking up, but keep it to once or twice per week, and no expectations on being exclusive, etc.

Here's where I would love some advice. I've never had a friends with benefits situation before, so does anyone have any advice on logistics of it, best way to approach bringing it up, etc?

I'm also concerned that she'll be offended. Maybe thats an unwarranted conclusion, or maybe the real problem is the fact that I'm concerned about her taking offense, not the fact that she might be offended. I feel pretty indifferent to the outcome of this, but I guess I'm not totally 100% indifferent - I guess there's probably a part of me that wants the sex/attention/validation that friends with benefits would bring.

Thoughts anyone?

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"The society gives you a map; I give you only freedom. The society gives you character, I give you only consciousness. The society teaches you to live a conformist life ... I give you an invitation to go on an adventure." - Osho

Bah.

Don't try to force it into a particular box. Just let it be what it will be.

Also, you sound a bit attached to the outcome. You shouldn't give a damn about whether or not she gets "offended" at this point.

If you care at this point in the game, you have already lost.

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“I learned this, at least, by my experiment; that if one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours. . . ."

-Thoreau's Walden

In my experience, actions speak louder than words.

edit:...until they start pressing for more

At least you know what it feels like to girls, especially the pedestalled* ones

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"I'd rather have no bitch than a half a bitch" Iceberg Slim

Ok, so your suggesting that I don't tell her anything explicit, but rather just start acting like the situation is already what I want it to be?
You're probably right - I've been working a lot on being non-attached, but this is the first girl I've slept with since taking a pretty long break from dating to work on myself, and when the rubber meets the road things come up that can't when you're just sitting thinking about being non-attached. I feel like I've reached the point here where more sitting and thinking on my own is not going to help me progress, but actually getting out there, getting triggered and seeing what comes up, and then going back and working on it again.
Ok, so if I'm reading that correctly, thats another vote for just acting like it already happened and only confronting her with it explicitly if she starts breaking the terms of the implicit contract.

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"The society gives you a map; I give you only freedom. The society gives you character, I give you only consciousness. The society teaches you to live a conformist life ... I give you an invitation to go on an adventure." - Osho

I think you are misinterpreting. There was no mention of "acting like" in any of those responses.
You want friends with benefits. Did you strategize that much when you first met any current male friend you have?

Good point. I've probably strategized this much or more when forming a business partnership, but other than that not with any guy friends.

So, basically what I'm hearing is that I just need to let it go, not try to do anything, and let the cards fall where they may.

I guess I'm still struggling with that whole focused on the outcome but not attached to it thing.

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"The society gives you a map; I give you only freedom. The society gives you character, I give you only consciousness. The society teaches you to live a conformist life ... I give you an invitation to go on an adventure." - Osho

^^ THIS

It is working as it is, why mess with that.

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.

Just let it ride, act normal and natural.. Lead the way and she will follow.

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And what is fear of need but need itself?

Thanks Grinus and aTrueRebel. I think I see now. Definitely need a good smacking upside the head every now and then...

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"The society gives you a map; I give you only freedom. The society gives you character, I give you only consciousness. The society teaches you to live a conformist life ... I give you an invitation to go on an adventure." - Osho

All the stuff you've been doing after the first night you had sex with her does not resemble what friends with benfits are. You had friends with benefits from the very beginning and now it's morphing into a relationship. It's funny how that happens.

...and this is why I haven't chimed in.

Meraki brought the drinks...and PKMN brought the ICE.

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EVERYTHING in life is conditional...EVERYTHING.

Pimposophy Revisited is now finally available on Amazon in all territories!

She WILL sooner or later try to get you to commit, given that you manage to keep a "whatever will be, will be" attitude [read INDIFFERENCE]. She will try to force it into a box, give it a label, give it rules and regulations.

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Perfect behavior is born of complete indifference.

When that happens deal with it.

At least then you know what direction she is angling towards.

She will give you all the ammo to counter it, in her chat.

Until then, I say to him, go with the flow... This is a learning experience for him...

_________________
In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.

Mikey - I owe you a beer. You called it.

I've been noticing the subtle ways over the past few days that she's been trying to force me into taking steps that I can see would be heading down the path towards a relationship (and one where she has the power). I feel like I've stood my ground pretty well (after a bit of a lapse last sunday, which I already mentioned in my original post). I think, however, the damage was already done, and so even though I haven't been taking her bait, it hasn't stopped her from continuing to try to bait me, and constantly resisting her invitations to play little games that are setup for me to lose just isn't what I am looking for.

Last night, went out with her and a big group of friends for her birthday, and she started becoming more and more ridiculous. I think the little games she was playing were probably too subtle for most of the other people (or at least the dudes) to notice, but i was very aware of them. Things like her giving me a subtle signal to try to get me to follow her across the bar, and then when I wouldn't, she would very obviously go approach a random dude and start talking to him more or less directly in my line of sight, clearly trying to awaken jealousy/mate-guarding in me.

All night I refused to play into any of her little games, until I realized that my being there at all was essentially me participating in a game. I realized that I didn't really want to be out, especially with that group of people (they were more her friends than mine) and I was only out because I felt some sort of obligation to hang out because it was her birthday. I realized that simply by sticking around hanging with people I didn't really want to hang with, I had already lost, regardless of whether or not I followed her across the bar, or was unaffected when she talked to other dudes, or whatever.

So I just left. She had disappeared to go to the bathroom, and had been gone almost 15 minutes, and the one guy in the group who I found interesting and wanted to talk to was putting on his coat to leave, and then I realized that once he left I was going to go from having an ok time to a bad time, so I just got up and grabbed my jacket, waved to a couple of the people in the group and walked out the door.

As I was walking home, I didn't feel anger or resentment. I had considered waiting for her to get back from the bathroom to tell her that I was leaving/why I was leaving, but I'm glad I didn't. I didn't feel any spite towards her, and causing confrontation would have only made my night worse, not better. I just felt like I didn't want to be out anymore, and I didn't want to participate in any games, so why would I stay out? So I left.

In retrospect, I brought all this on myself by spending sunday with her, doing "boyfriendy" things with her. Like Mikey said - that was when it stopped looking like friends with benefits, and started looking more relationshipy. By even just taking a couple steps down that path, even though I backtracked, it put me into a certain category in her mind and from then on she was going to keep trying me to walk down that path again.

So, going forward, we'll see if she contacts me this morning to find out why I left abruptly without saying goodbye, but I have no desire to get in a fight, or be passive aggressive with her. Basically if she wants to play, she's got to play by my rules or I'm not going to play at all.

Definitely a good learning experience.

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"The society gives you a map; I give you only freedom. The society gives you character, I give you only consciousness. The society teaches you to live a conformist life ... I give you an invitation to go on an adventure." - Osho

Now it gets fun!

You have essentially pushed the reset button on this dynamic. It's like playing an old school videogame with no save states...and somehow you missed to pick up a certain item on a certain level to get the best ending. Sure you can keep playing for completionists sake...but you know it's a waste of time. So that's when you push the reset button and start fresh...or turn it off and come back to it another time.

DO NOT REACH OUT TO HER...in fact, ignore her first 3-5 attempts to contact you...let the space drive her imagination wild.

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EVERYTHING in life is conditional...EVERYTHING.

Pimposophy Revisited is now finally available on Amazon in all territories!

Sounds like you might be a bit eager for this to happen, to use it as a chance to prove a point (I think it's more to yourself than to her, based on what else you said,) deliver a great response, prove a victory etc.. I would take the very last part of the post from Kidd above
and put it in bold in your brain, should you feel the urge to pounce on the message.. or, waste time crafting the ultimate response

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXz8xMaJi4

So you're saying that a man can reverse the dynamic ANY TIME if HE REALLY FEELS LIKE IT ?
That would mean that you as a MAN have the CHOICE of what you accept/tolerate and want.
Wow that's a new one

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"The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn."
Alvin Toffler

Disclaimer: Not aimed at Goldenballs Yup

Hows that for a mindbender..

Does that mess with your view of reality?

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.

Nice, you were finally being honest to yourself. ^^ THIS

_________________
In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.