Just keep doing what you're doing...repetition is key and practice makes perfect.
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| Observing in the moment http://naturalfreedom.info/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2640 |
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| Author: | Meraki [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Observing in the moment |
Ok, I've been doing a lot of reading here, especially the posts in GoldenBoy's recommendation threads, which are very helpful threads. I have a question on observation and analyzing. I feel like I'm pretty good at doing it when it involves observing others, since I've been observing/analyzing other people and their relationships for a while (just something I've always liked doing). Since reading Kidd's stuff on covert tactics, I've focused more on observing and analyzing situations that involve me as one of the actors, rather than just observing other people's situations. I feel like I've gotten much better at that just within the last couple weeks of focusing on it. However, I still feel like it is difficult to do in the moment. I find myself often having a significant realization about a situation 2 seconds after the situation is over/has changed/moved on. As an example - today I was sitting in the sauna at the gym I go to with a guy I chat with in the weight room (Joe), and a girl who's loosely part of my social circle (Steph - she just started coming to the gym, so I've been seeing a lot more of her this last week, and she's definitely jocking me right now). We were chatting about a movie, and then I got too hot and left the sauna, and literally the moment the door closed behind me I realized that I had gotten overly excited and wrapped up in the discussion of this movie, and I let Joe make me a bit flustered and I lost a bit of my chill vibe. I wasn't angry or anything, but I definitely was not my usual chill/indifferent in the moment, even though the discussion wasn't anything important at all. I realized that even though its something I've worked on (not getting riled up), I still fell into that pattern and didn't have complete control over my attitude. If I had been able to realize that I was getting a bit riled up while it was happening, it would have been real easy for me to just say to myself "let it go" and I would have immediately chilled out, but I wasn't able to do that until after I had left the situation. So, my question for Kidd, Grinus, and anyone else is this: Do you have any tips or advice on how to become better at observing/analyzing a situation in the moment, while its happening rather than immediately afterwards? Seems like this leap into real time is difficult. Is it just a matter of trying to do it enough times that eventually I get better and better at it, or is there some other good way to practice/improve? Thanks! |
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| Author: | The Kidd!! [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Observing in the moment |
Just keep doing what you're doing...repetition is key and practice makes perfect.
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| Author: | roark [ Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Observing in the moment |
Meraki, I wasn't planning to make any posts on this forum at this point (still reading through and digesting the material) but I have had realisations recently related to your question, and wanted to post them in the event that they may help and encourage you. Warning, this is going to be long, so whether you (or anyone else on this forum) want to read on is up to you (or them): I also "bristle" (to be specific, I psychologically assume an attack posture) when people provoke me IN A CERTAIN WAY (I am usually very indifferent to personal attacks and "jabs" due to my general disdain for the human species  , but I do have my blind spots)....Anyways, what I have realised is that, for me at least, noticing incremental improvements in my "response time" (i.e. the time it takes between when I bristle and when I RECOGNISE that I am bristling) encourages me to improve (without really making a helluva lot of effort). Here's how it goes: At the beginning of this year, I would only recognise LOOOOOOOOONG after the fact that I got defensive when someone made a little jab at me that happened to hit one of the aforementioned blind spots (maybe later that day, or even the next day, or next couple of days). I would tell myself that it's ok, it happens to just about everyone, and since I KNOW that I am more spiritually and psychologically developed than the average motherfucker out there, I WILL improve, and will keep an eye out for these improvements, OUT OF INTEREST AND CURIOUSITY. Around April/May, I noticed that the "response time" had improved - I was noticing that I was pissed and defensive immediately after the conversation was over. Later that day, I would realise this, recognise the slight improvement, congratulate myself on it, and know that I will continue to improve - after all, I am STILL more developed than the average assholes out there, aren't I?  (I know, I know, watch the ego - anyways, moving on....)By July/August, I was noticing what was happening to me WHILE in the middle of these types of conversations. THIS is where my confidence in my self improvement took a quantum leap. I mean, to realise that my ego is allowing me to be manipulated WHILE IT IS HAPPENING is somehow hugely empowering. Fast forward to a couple weeks ago - someone (who I barely know, but who I think is a fairly cool guy) made a casual statement to me that also sounded like a veiled threat. Check out what happened inside my head (this didn't happen in words, I am just using them to describe what happended): "Whoa, feel that? I was ABOUT TO assume an attack posture!! Interesting.....OK, so what is he REALLY saying? OK, now that I am not being ridden like a horse by my emotions, I can see that what he is telling me could be construed not as a threat, but as good advice, and I will consider it later.....However, this fucker needs to consider carefully how he delivers his advice, 'cause one day he will do this to the wrong person, and there'll be hell to pay for all concerned... At any rate, that wrong person WILL NOT BE ME, so it's NO LONGER MY FUCKING PROBLEM."  That's how it's been working for me. I am also beginning to apply it in other areas of my life as well. Perhaps the methodology should be different for each individual, I don't know..... But I thought I should post this, in case it helps....... |
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| Author: | The Kidd!! [ Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Observing in the moment |
Excellent, roark...excellent.
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| Author: | Sai [ Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:28 pm ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: Observing in the moment | |
"Whoa, feel that? I was ABOUT TO assume an attack posture!! Interesting.....OK, so what is he REALLY saying? OK, now that I am not being ridden like a horse by my emotions, I can see that what he is telling me could be construed not as a threat, but as good advice, and I will consider it later.....However, this fucker needs to consider carefully how he delivers his advice, 'cause one day he will do this to the wrong person, and there'll be hell to pay for all concerned... At any rate, that wrong person WILL NOT BE ME, so it's NO LONGER MY FUCKING PROBLEM." That's how it's been working for me. I am also beginning to apply it in other areas of my life as well. Perhaps the methodology should be different for each individual, I don't know..... But I thought I should post this, in case it helps....... |
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| Author: | roark [ Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Observing in the moment |
Thanks for the kind words, Kidd!! and Prodigy. After thinking about it, I realised I should add that I am in no way out of the woods - the last event described is only one of several "blind spots" I obviously have. Basically: 1. Self-observation is an ONGOING PROCESS to be applied to all areas of life, particularily human interactions, and if my experiences so far are anything to go by, this doesn't need to be an exhaustive, computational procedure - just kind of happens via awareness, I guess. Kidd!! and Grinus can expand on this far better than I could, if they feel it necessary. 2. I must constantly keep in mind, as per Kidd!!'s and Grinus' advice (as well as others, notably Sniper) in other areas of this forum - ENJOY THE JOURNEY. After all, I will never be this "green" and inexperienced again; so I should enjoy it while I still have it.......... I have read the two Esther Vilar books, and have just finished Great Female Con, so when I gather my thoughts, I will write a post about my experiences while reading these books (more vomit on the deck of the Nebuchadnezzar, as you would have expected), but in the meantime, more reading for me, less talking. Anyway, keep fighting the good fight with this forum, guys. Roark out (for now)....... |
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| Author: | Meraki [ Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Observing in the moment |
Roark - Thanks for your posts. Reading through them definitely confirmed what I suspected - that its just something that you get better at over time. Having the intention to improve will cause you to improve without needing to freak out about the details. I just finished reading Pimp by Iceburg Slim, and you can kind of see him go through the same process - he comes into the pimping game green and inexperienced and Sweet has to drill it into his head that he needs to not show his emotions (ie. to get icy). He starts working on it consciously, and after a while he has such fine control of which emotions he displays that they give him a new name (Iceburg). He didn't get his icy-ness by overanalyzing or beating himself up about it. He just realized he needed to become icy, set his intention toward it, and it happened over time. Ok - back to more reading for me! Ps. Roark - if you want me to send you more of the books people recommend here on the forum, just send me a pm - I've collected quite a few of them since showing up here, and would be happy to pass them on... |
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| Author: | Alfie [ Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Observing in the moment |
Meraki something that might work in a normal convo, in order to control ur emotions, is to pull back (in ur mind) and actually observe ur self as a third person. Think of it as the "observer mode", don't just open doors, see the maze and choose what doors to open. Alfie |
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| Author: | rekieter [ Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Observing in the moment |
Ok so recently I watched this movie from TEDtalks, where guy talks about science and spiritual stuff - and gues what - it clicked. I had this feeling of complete dettachement, everything was so plain and simple. The funny thing is, that same experience happened to me after smoking salvia divinorum. Not talking about the trip itself but what happened later. I remeber that I told my friend that I felt like I took some prozac or something like that. It lasted for 2 days straight, it was like watching a movie. The trip was so intense, that reality afterwards seemed like illusion. I was completely dettatched. It affected my work and education - I was much better in doing things - there was no voice in my head, no overflow of emotions, I could see them but wasn't affected. |
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| Author: | roark [ Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:05 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: Observing in the moment | ||
Ps. Roark - if you want me to send you more of the books people recommend here on the forum, just send me a pm - I've collected quite a few of them since showing up here, and would be happy to pass them on...
Thanks for the offer, Meraki. I've got most of the ones i've seen recommended around here, so i'm ok. Funny you should mention the Iceberg book, cause i'm going to read that next. But first, I might read Predatory Female. You see, I read Great Female Con and the two Esther Vilar books, went through the disorientation and intense anger, and have only just regained my equilibrium. But I want to get myself back in that state DELIBERATELY, to observe my emotions and see WHAT ELSE I can find out about myself. I only mention this to you as my admittedly roundabout way of asking - isn't self observation fun & interesting? I find as time goes on, it is less about becoming more impressive to others, and more about just enjoying the many "craters" within my psyche. And ironically, the more I do it purely for the enjoyment of self-analysis, the more others subconsciously respond to me - men seem to be fucking with me less and less, and the jocking from women (which I always used to get) is now almost off the charts. I have noticed a slight tendency towards preaching/proselytizing in my posts (everyone, feel free to call me out on it if you notice it! - i'm here to learn, after all), and wanted to leave this post without saying more, but I can't resist pointing out the following (in relation to my previous paragraph above), something interesting I came across recently:
"I am thinking, rather, of the well-known fact that anyone who has INSIGHT INTO HIS OWN ACTIONS, and has thus found access to the unconscious, involuntarily exercises an influence on his environment......... It is an unintentional influence ON THE UNCONSCIOUS OF OTHERS, a sort of unconscious prestige, and ITS EFFECT LASTS ONLY SO LONG AS IT IS NOT DISTURBED BY CONSCIOUS INTENTION." (Carl Gustav Jung - The Undiscovered Self, Chapter 7; emphasis mine)Pretty cool, huh? What we discuss here is definitely not as new as we may be tempted to think; my guess is that although this knowledge has been around for a while, self knowledge is usually too painful, requires too much humility, takes too long, and (the biggest reason, in my view) requires too much personal responsibility for the average person to be even interested in pursuing it........... SO THE MERE FACT THAT WE ON THIS SITE ARE EVEN ATTEMPTING TO DO THIS DISTINGUISHES US FROM THE HERD. Anyway, unfortunately I only have a hard-copy of that book, so I cannot PM it to you, but if you are interested in it, you should be able to track it down. (NOTE TO ADMINISTRATORS - if you want me to expand on Carl Gustav Jung, let me know and I will open a thread - I believe, though, that someone here already recommended him - I think it was Prodigy?) Anyway Meraki, best of luck with your ongoing journey, but most importantly, I HOPE YOU HAVE FUN WITH IT. |
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| Author: | Meraki [ Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Observing in the moment |
Roark - I like some of the things you've written. I especially like your image of enjoying discovering the topography of your own psyche. I find that looking back a the books I've read, I often have a dominant association with a specific emotion (or maybe a two emotions) for each book. I found that with the Manipulated Man it was anger and sadness blended together. Anger for how I personally have been wronged by the system, and sadness at seeing how pervasive the matrix is, how much worse my father has been wronged than I have, and how little chance he has to ever escape his situation (see: http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopic.php?t=2584). With Iceburg and Pimp, it was more confusion/amazement. My first reaction to many of the things that happened in his life and the social dynamics that he relates was that it all seemed a bit unbelievable/incomprehensible because it is so far from my own experience in life. But then once I was able to put aside some of my disbelief, it turned more towards amazement at how he was able to orchestrate situations and play angles so masterfully. I can see why Kidd is so enamored with that book - Iceburg, and some of the other characters like Sweet, are like puppet-masters playing a game that is 3 levels above the reality that everyone else operates on. I guess that while the manipulated man helped to wake me up to the negative effects of the matrix and its pervasiveness, Pimp started to give me inklings of the advantage that people have that can train themselves to play on the higher levels above the matrix. It didn't necessarily always end well for Iceburg, but I think that is more to his goals not being well thought out, rather than indicating that the potential isn't there to use some of the same strategies for different results. So, I guess my point about all of this is that reading Pimp may very well put you into an altered state, just like Villar's books and the Female Con - just a different altered state not based on anger... Oh and yes - self observation is fascinating. WAAAAAAYYY more fascinating than anything on TV could be. I don't own a TV, and I don't understand people that feel a need to watch so much tv. My own life is sooooo much more interesting... |
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| Author: | GoldenBoy [ Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:12 am ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: Observing in the moment | ||
Iceburg and Pimp, - ... - Iceburg
ICEBERG Slim, because he's cold like one.Please show respect 
Oh and yes - self observation is fascinating. WAAAAAAYYY more fascinating than anything on TV could be. I don't own a TV, and I don't understand people that feel a need to watch so much tv. My own life is sooooo much more interesting...
This I like.  Ever laughed out loud because you were watching your thoughts or shit like that ?
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| Author: | roark [ Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:48 am ] | |||
| Post subject: | Re: Observing in the moment | |||
playing a game that is 3 levels above the reality that everyone else operates on.
This is a very valuable heads-up - I will keep this in mind while reading "Pimp". Thank you for this.I guess that while the manipulated man helped to wake me up to the negative effects of the matrix and its pervasiveness, Pimp started to give me inklings of the advantage that people have that can train themselves to play on the higher levels above the matrix. It didn't necessarily always end well for Iceburg, but I think that is more to his goals not being well thought out, rather than indicating that the potential isn't there to use some of the same strategies for different results. So, I guess my point about all of this is that reading Pimp may very well put you into an altered state, just like Villar's books and the Female Con - just a different altered state not based on anger...
I don't understand people that feel a need to watch so much tv. My own life is sooooo much more interesting...
Can totally relate. Notice that the second sentence may well explain the first? There is a film that Peregrinus recommended called "Network" (1976, I think) with Fay Dunaway and Robert Duvall, among others - it speaks to this and other things that we discuss on this forum. It blew my mind when I watched it, how prophetic it was. You should check it out when you get a chance (if you haven't already).
Ever laughed out loud because you were watching your thoughts or shit like that ?
Yeah - more like a chuckle. No one has noticed yet, which I think is a good sign......
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| Author: | roark [ Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:02 am ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: Observing in the moment | |
Also, a correction:
if you want me to expand on Carl Gustav Jung, let me know and I will open a thread - I believe, though, that someone here already recommended him - I think it was Prodigy?).
It was rkd1990's recommendation: http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopi ... =22&t=1923Just nitpicking. Roark out. |
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| Author: | Altair [ Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:40 am ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: Observing in the moment | |
I like to watch TV from time to time. Shows like Family Guy and Two and A Half men are a time when my brain can just shut off. Which is nice. Been meaning to read Pimp for quite some time. I've never heard anyone give it a bad review.
playing a game that is 3 levels above the reality that everyone else operates on.
It's kinda mind blowing really. Even observing the interactions between people I know and the women they are interested in. They'll be like that girl really liked you. And I'll be like yeah, she's cool. And then they'll be like when are you gonna talk to her. And I'll be like idk whenever she picks up the phone. "You should invite her to dinner, talk to her, pursue her." I actually feel sick looking at the steak filled world of people. That's when the haters come out it's funny how people try to bring down what they cannot understand and fear it instead of embracing it with curiousity.
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| Author: | Meraki [ Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:06 am ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: Observing in the moment | |
@ GoldenBoy - hah, oops. Thanks for catching me. No disrespect intended. @ Roark - I'll put Network on the to-watch list. Luckily its on netflix instant... @ Morpheus
it's funny how people try to bring down what they cannot understand and fear it instead of embracing it with curiosity
So true, so true...
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| Author: | TheDude [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:40 pm ] | |||
| Post subject: | Re: Observing in the moment | |||
2. I must constantly keep in mind, as per Kidd!!'s and Grinus' advice (as well as others, notably Sniper) in other areas of this forum - ENJOY THE JOURNEY. After all, I will never be this "green" and inexperienced again; so I should enjoy it while I still have it.......... Great WORDS man! You're def in the right direction roark. Keep at it, and PATIENCE is your companion on this journey.
I have read the two Esther Vilar books... (more vomit on the deck of the Nebuchadnezzar, as you would have expected) This is natural. This food we eat and digest may not taste great at first, but it is extremely HEALTHY for us! I find myself having more frequent nightmares, which for me is a sign that I'm hitting a "nerve" and will look into it (I'll write up a post once I understand more of its workings, but I can notice great Fear in Me).
The funny thing is, that same experience happened to me after smoking salvia divinorum. You little Devil! 
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