Natural Freedom

Forum for the natural awakening and self-realization of men
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 Post subject: Re: Eye Contact
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:48 pm 
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p4th wrote:
My mindset had changed from the pressure is on ME to the pressure is on HER.
I like this. I've thought about this before sometimes. Nice reminder and funny about making girls nervous.
Resonance wrote:

I never said to stop believing in your god I simply said there are a lot of limiting beliefs you need to get over which your church/family had drilled and programmed into you. You can believe what you want you are your own person and have free will so what you choose to put your faith in is on you.
Sorry I misunderstood. Yes I have a lot of limiting beliefs.
Resonance wrote:


Do you just want a relationship with your dream girl?
I came here because I messed up a good relationship I think. Maybe I had less of a part. I wanted to be good with girls. I didn't want to mess up a relationship again. Now I want to become better with relationships in general and become more solid as a person.
Morpheus wrote:

Well yeah, but your missing part of it. Your like the cache or history in your internet browser you store all the information but have no real connection to it. It exists but it doesnt really matter.

Without confidence and indifference you will get nowhere. Its like being a sweet racecar driver (your technical knowledge) and the car is confidence and indifference. You can be the best driver but if you have a crappy car doesnt much matter.
I like that. Really illustrates the point. I feel like becoming connected will be a process kinda like what p4th did.


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Contact
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:51 pm 
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foofatron wrote:
Flow83 wrote:
Fear of getting close = afraid other person will see those aspects of you that you find absolutely unacceptable and must keep hidden at all costs.

The only thing beyond a band aid is to begin to actually accept these parts and the only way to start doing that is to acknowledge them and look directly at them (not comfortable).
This hit home. I realized I am very much afraid to let people see parts of me. I'm not sure why I'm unaccepting of some parts or all the parts.
Because like all of us you were born into a society + family where very natural parts of who you are were considered deeply unacceptable. This is pre-verbal and is communicated and downloaded in countless subtle ways, it has nothing to do really with whether or not your parents were "good" or supportive/not. Many things that are completely natural are just deemed inappropriate - unacceptable.

When I demonstrate any behavior that comes from this part of myself, I get disapproval from the parents/society and my survival at this young age literally depends on them. It's then a permanent imprint that comes in all sorts of ways.

Again no offense from my end but you were raised catholic/christian like I was there are guaranteed deep associations made. And not just death - death is a joke compared to the fear of eternal suffering.

The punchline though is that if you study what Jesus actually SAYS understanding the context etc (which I've finally checked out more, now that i'm over it and can look to any source -- before it had to be east or from the Buddha for it to be 'ok' for me ;) ) he points to true freedom and indifference.

If you stand by your message and not denounce it while you are literally being nailed to a fucking cross, that's "indifference" to the approval of others and your own safety/security on a very high level.

I am using this context because you say you are still very much christian, and don't want you to get stuck in some kind of non existant conflict. There are however deep conflicts between freedom and essentially all organized religions that try to use JC (my opinion).

As for why you are here and the seeming ambiguity around it -- you'll find that you're not really here for the girls. Go to one of those stupid boot camps if that's ALL it was you really wanted but this is about them representing a place where you are not free to express yourself and feel powerful which if I may be so bold as to say that is what is more important to most men in the end.

_________________
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 Post subject: Re: Eye Contact
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:59 pm 
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I know and I others have posted more of the details in the "letting go"/inner work (forget what it's called) part of this forum --

The theory of why is just to cut yourself some slack -- unfortunately ah-hah realizations don't suddenly make you fully accepting of yourself :)

The bottom line is that external circumstances do not cure this feeling of self lack. They just keep you focused on something else and temporarily satisfy the desire. It involves looking and being directly with the parts of yourself that you find unacceptable or your weakness without an agenda, which is not comfortable territory all the time to say the least. It's not something you wipe out with some affirmations or just writing down over and over that you're the man (no offense meant, these tools have their place).

Like I said specifics on what people have found valuable for doing this type of work are listed on that section of the forum.

_________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXz8xMaJi4


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Contact
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 3:44 am 
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foofatron wrote:
I came here because I messed up a good relationship I think. Maybe I had less of a part. I wanted to be good with girls. I didn't want to mess up a relationship again. Now I want to become better with relationships in general and become more solid as a person.
I see so why do you think you messed up this relationship? Why do you want to be better with girls and have good relationships in general?

You don't have to answer me but these are definitely questions you really ought to introspect on yourself, for what purpose will this serve?

_________________
~There's weakness in the hearts of all humans are you afraid to acknowledge yours... ~
Mr. Todo


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Contact
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 6:04 am 
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foofatron wrote:
I came here because I messed up a good relationship I think. Maybe I had less of a part. I wanted to be good with girls. I didn't want to mess up a relationship again. Now I want to become better with relationships in general and become more solid as a person.
Its interesting you chose to put a relationship before you put becoming a more solid person :geek:

Yeah people are always trying to shape us the direction they want to see. Its not objective though its based on their own fears and insecurities usually. You are like an artist, create and shape your work so that it reflects the needs of the audience. They can judge your work :mrgreen:

But they cannot judge you :mrgreen: :mrgreen:. Who you are is seperate from what you do or create.
And you dont measure your self worth on how you are recieved.

_________________
"The heart is deep beyond all things, and it is the man. Even so, who can know him."


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Contact
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:30 am 
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Flow83 wrote:
If you stand by your message and not denounce it while you are literally being nailed to a fucking cross, that's "indifference" to the approval of others and your own safety/security on a very high level.
Yep.
Flow83 wrote:
As for why you are here and the seeming ambiguity around it -- you'll find that you're not really here for the girls. Go to one of those stupid boot camps if that's ALL it was you really wanted but this is about them representing a place where you are not free to express yourself and feel powerful which if I may be so bold as to say that is what is more important to most men in the end.
Thats probably why. I guess I was still hurting when I came here.
Flow83 wrote:
The theory of why is just to cut yourself some slack -- unfortunately ah-hah realizations don't suddenly make you fully accepting of yourself :)

The bottom line is that external circumstances do not cure this feeling of self lack. They just keep you focused on something else and temporarily satisfy the desire. It involves looking and being directly with the parts of yourself that you find unacceptable or your weakness without an agenda, which is not comfortable territory all the time to say the least. It's not something you wipe out with some affirmations or just writing down over and over that you're the man (no offense meant, these tools have their place).
I'm only human. Like being more introvert at times, no need to change.
Resonance wrote:
I see so why do you think you messed up this relationship?
I kinda flipped the scrip. Revealed more insecurities. I pushed her away I think.
Resonance wrote:
Why do you want to be better with girls and have good relationships in general?
You don't have to answer me but these are definitely questions you really ought to introspect on yourself, for what purpose will this serve?
I want to add to people and their lives. I want to build people up. I like acceptance from people and girls. I like feeling validated. I want to get married someday and have kids and be a good father. I want to be a better talker and maybe even a speaker. I want to be better with words too. I want to be able to communicate better. To share my beliefs. Be able to witness to anybody, family, friends, and even a stranger. I'm not advocating forcing people to believe thats not possible. Being better with people would also make me feel better. I'd like to have conversations with my family and friends that would be hard for me.

Morpheus wrote:
Its interesting you chose to put a relationship before you put becoming a more solid person :geek:
Indeed. I think that is me wanting to be validated by others.
Morpheus wrote:
Yeah people are always trying to shape us the direction they want to see. Its not objective though its based on their own fears and insecurities usually. You are like an artist, create and shape your work so that it reflects the needs of the audience. They can judge your work :mrgreen:

But they cannot judge you :mrgreen: :mrgreen:. Who you are is seperate from what you do or create.
And you dont measure your self worth on how you are recieved.
I have an attachment between what I do or create and my self worth. Even who I am probably to a large degree.


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Contact
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:55 am 
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foofatron wrote:
I like acceptance from people and girls. I like feeling validated.
If you can't do this for yourself what makes you think anyone else will. You should think of the world as your mirror, they reflect you according to what's going internally. Believe me I was there I understand that which brings back up the point of beliefs the internal must change so that the external world can be what you desire.

_________________
~There's weakness in the hearts of all humans are you afraid to acknowledge yours... ~
Mr. Todo


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Contact
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:50 am 
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foofatron wrote:
I like acceptance from people and girls. I like feeling validated.
Everyone does, trying to avoid feeling good about having validation would only show how attached to it you really are. :geek:
The key is to enjoy it when it is there...but when its not you just tune into the background noise of self acceptence. Its like the tide sometimes its there sometimes its not.
foofatron wrote:
I'm only human. Like being more introvert at times, no need to change.
There is a difference between introversion and social anxiety as well. Introversion means to feel recharged from time spent alone. Shyness is extraversion that cannot find an outlet.
foofatron wrote:
I have an attachment between what I do or create and my self worth. Even who I am probably to a large degree.
Too the degree you can disillusion yourself that there is a connection between who you are and what you do you will be able to achieve the things you want.

_________________
"The heart is deep beyond all things, and it is the man. Even so, who can know him."


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Contact
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 8:46 am 
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Some interesting posts above, am enjoying reading them :D

_________________
In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Contact
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 11:19 pm 
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Posts: 118
Life has been moving forward. A few days ago I got offered a job a hollister a popular clothing store for teens. The girl asked me even though I basically ignored her and acted not very friendly. I went to the interview today and I think it went well, except the lady forgot to ask me a question. A big question on diversity. She asked me one and the other girl two on diversity. It was a group interview where we were all supposed to get the same questions. I should have stopped her. I waited for her to ask me the next question. I gave a less than desirable answer for the first because I was saving up for the second. My opportunity never came. The girl was like I thought that was weird after the interview when we were leaving. That is the other interviee. I was nervous at first, but I enjoyed talking with the girl who was my "competition" I felt less nervous after. I joked with the interviewer I think that went alright. I want the job. I need a job atm. Getting past fears and being more open.


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Contact
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 3:02 am 
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foofatron wrote:
The girl asked me even though I basically ignored her and acted not very friendly.
What motivated you to act like you didnt care :?:

_________________
"The heart is deep beyond all things, and it is the man. Even so, who can know him."


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Contact
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:49 pm 
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I got the job. I wanted to feel superior I guess. More powerful. She was cute and I wanted validation in some way.


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Contact
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:39 pm 
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I'm posting here because I had an experience that's related.

I went out to dinner last night with my family. We were waiting and I was starring off into space. My eyes were looking straight into another guys eyes, but I didn't realize it at first. We locked eyes until he came closer when I had to look away because it became too uncomfortable. I then noticed he was approaching me.

My fears came out, he was at least in his 50's, I thought he was either going to scold me or verbally cut me or fight me. I tensed up and wanted to run. I was afraid to look at him because I truly believed something bad would happen. He simply said nice due and touched the part of my wavy hair that stuck out a little and left. I didn't feel awkward at all because we had locked eyes however. My sis was like that's so awkward!

Even with girls I'm afraid I might be verbally attacked. I once was looking back at a girl (a friend was walking with her, wasn't sure which was talking to me) and she kept saying eww! Don't look at me. Hurt a little, but whatever. I have way more positive confirmations so its becoming a much smaller issue.

This makes my believe that what Mystery said was true. Guys are afraid to look at girls because in the past a guy might "own" that girl and he could endanger his life. At least that's how I remember it. maybe that's just my mind making excuses for my issues, but I don't know why my system perceives so many threats related to eye contact.


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