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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:17 am 
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Yesterday I talked to Midway and this subject came up, paying for coaching.

Paying for services is one thing but what these seduction teachers are doing is outrages !!

they charge so much money for coaching and for what? for teaching you something that is supposed to be natural and easy in the first place.

I'm ok with paying for services, I'm not saying they need to coach for free, but once they start charging so much $$- this is ludicrous. Even doctors and psychologists don't charge these amounts of money and their work is far more important...

I was on Bren't mailing list and he sent a few emails about a seduction boot camp his is doing in LA- 1 day (a few hours learning and a few hours in field):
1000$.
I heard that when he does one on one coaching it's far more expensive....

Rion Williams was against seduction boot camps and he said that people don't need to spend so much money on something that is supposed to be natural. Well, I guess he needs more boots now ;) because I went into his website and noticed that besides the seduction boot camp he is doing in Austin (which is 1600$) his coaching prices are far from being cheap.

on Natural Game Go you pay 3100$ for 3-4 days ( + your expenses) then he has 'Global Escapade tour':

5 City Regional or Continental Tour - 1 Month $25,000 + your expenses

13 City Intercontinental Tour - 90 Days $120,000 + your expenses

25 City Intercontinental Tour - 180 Days $500,000 + your expenses

And if you can't afford that then you have:

1 Year Non-Stop 50 City Metro, 7 Continent World Tour - 365 Days for only: $1 million + your expenses....

Now he might say that he is cheaper then other teachers, but that still doesn't justify it (And he said before that paying so much money on this is wrong.....)

Now if I had the spare money I would spend it on education, hobby or a car :)

But the thing is that even if I did coaching with someone, there is no guarantee that I will get the results promised And there is no refund on coaching if I'm not satisfied......

Let us also rememeber that each person has his own personality and style, so by watching Rion or Brent picking up women and trying to imitate them- I'm not sure if that would help me in the long run.

So I would say: don't pay these high prices for coaching and don't let these teachers make fast money on our expense.

We are working too hard for our money to be giving it away to these guys......

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:23 am 
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For a million dollars I'd take Reiki certification, shamanic healing+tantra and I'd heal myself, plus go to a top quality animation school, problem solved. :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:40 pm 
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create wrote:
For a million dollars I'd take Reiki certification, shamanic healing+tantra and I'd heal myself, plus go to a top quality animation school, problem solved. :lol:
And you woull still have money left for a new car or two ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:31 pm 
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Yes I agree there is no reason to pay expensive prices for coaching. I saw Rions post that he is on his way to Austin to live for the next year. I might be in contact and possibly even meet in person with him a few times because I live an hour away from Austin, but I wont be paying any money for it. Rion is just a person to me, an equal, so I dont feel any desire to pay money to hang out with him. So we will see how things go


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:53 pm 
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CPWrestling724 wrote:
Yes I agree there is no reason to pay expensive prices for coaching. I saw Rions post that he is on his way to Austin to live for the next year. I might be in contact and possibly even meet in person with him a few times because I live an hour away from Austin, but I wont be paying any money for it. Rion is just a person to me, an equal, so I dont feel any desire to pay money to hang out with him. So we will see how things go
It was Rion who said on 'natural game seminar' that meeting and dating women is supposed to be the most natural thing in the world and that it's wrong people are paying thousands of dollars on coaching or boot camps. But I guess everything changed once he decided he needs more 500$ boots.

If I had 3000$ or 1600$ and I wanted to use it on getting better with women, I would use this money to take a trip to Asia or south America. With this amount of money I can stay for a long time in the continent and learn from the best teachers of seduction: natural women.

It's much better then spending all this money on just one weekend...

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:27 am 
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I would love to send some of those seduction Gurus to go work on a farm and remember what's it like to work hard for money.

I would make a one year 'farm boot camp' for them And I'll send the pigs on the farm to fart at their way :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:34 am 
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While I would not pay that much to go to a bootcamp. The reviews I've heard from people have gone to Brents have been outrageous. It would be funny to see that guy in action, but I still dont think it's worth that much money. Just take these guys advice from their products or whatever and go and take the steps to creat this kind of life yourself.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:11 pm 
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TheModernLibertine wrote:
While I would not pay that much to go to a bootcamp. The reviews I've heard from people have gone to Brents have been outrageous. It would be funny to see that guy in action, but I still dont think it's worth that much money. Just take these guys advice from their products or whatever and go and take the steps to creat this kind of life yourself.
I'm not so sure about all people getting great results from Bren't boot camps.
Check this out:
http://seductionreview.net/modules.php? ... ews&pid=56

look at the last post on that page by Univaldr
I'll quote:

I spent a weekend one-on-one with Brent Smith this summer (2007). As you know, this is not cheap. His web-site describes an amazing life where women are throwing themselves at you and says if you want to start living this life now, sign up. I decided that if it worked it was worth it, so I wrote him. I spoke to him on the phone and I asked him for some references and he gave me the contact information for about 6 or 8 of his former students. I wrote all of them emails explaining that I was considering taking the weekend with Brent and would they mind terribly spending a few minutes talking to me about how the course was for them.

Most of them did not write me back, but three of them did and I talked to all three on the phone. One of them was one of these very "fake alpha" guys who has to dominate the conversation and I didn't talk to him for very long. However the other two were quite friendly and enjoyable guys. One told me that he has a woman every time he goes for coffee. The other told me that he started out very shy and just wanted a girlfriend; now he goes out about once a month and about every other time he gets laid and about every other of those it is with a new woman. He said Brent took him shopping and now women love his clothes. So I signed up; I was one of the last people to get a weekend with Brent for $5000.

What happened was not what I expected. I met Brent at
the airport and I told him that all I really wanted was to learn how to generate attraction in women upon a cold approach. That seems to be the secret, as if you can get attraction everything else about dating and relationships works; for example, in a relationship the oman has to treat you with respect because she knows you can find someone else. Anyway, that's all I thought I could learn in one weekend. I can't remember what he said exactly, but it was rather an assurance that this would be handled.

That night (Friday) we went to an upscale restaurant/bar I like. He walked in and he said "let's start talking to someone" so he walked up to the bar behind two mediocre looking old-ish women probably in their late 30's and said "What's going on?" Well, the turned around and said something and Brent started telling them about his trip and how he's from L.A.

The first thing I noticed is that he is very good at saying vacuous sentences that have no content at all. I'm an engineer so I'm good at saying sentences that have content and that are interesting. My best friend is a woman and she says that I say interesting things. Juggler says not to be interesting and I can see that
indeed Brent says things that have no content what-so-ever: "I'm from L.A.", "So, where's the party?", "What's going on?". This does seem to work, for him anyway.

So I thought this conversation with these women was a
waste of time as I was not attracted to them but I decided to trust that Brent was trying to teach me something so I went along with it and tried to see what Brent was doing. We ended up sitting down for drinks with them for half the evening. I thought it was boring but I sat there. Any time I did anything Brent basically told me that it was the wrong thing; such as at one point when I went over to the other side of the table to stand under the heat lamp (it was chilly) and when one of the girls went to the bathroom I took her seat.

He told me he sees that a lot in the pickup community (I think Mystery teaches it) and to not do it: be a classy guy. Ok. He told me not to have both a knife and a pen in my pocket ("but I could do this with lights on my shirt" he added). He told me that in any stories I tell about women *they* are chasing me, *never* the other way; in other words, doctor the truth, at least by omission. He told generic lies about me to the girls about how women are always chasing me, though he did throw in a specific truth about how my ex-girlfriend was calling me when we went by my apartment before going to the club.

Anyway, then we went to this very loud, very packed (I
could hardly move) bar/club near there (where I paid
the cover for everyone). We walked in and he got me a
drink (I ended up paying for all of these later so don't infer generosity here) just told me to go up to people and talk to them. He started yelling it at me. He was basically yelling at me to "go pick up girls!" Well if I knew how to do that I wouldn't need a class with him. I felt overwhelmed with sensory input both trying to understand him and also deal with the packed and very loud music and crowed and I couldn't tell what he wanted me to do anyway, so I dragged him out to the patio where I could talk and I said "You have
to give me more specific instructions".

I had to repeat myself many times as he seems very
resistant to giving me instructions. Finally he told me to walk around and clink people's glasses with mine
and say "Hey!". So I did. I went around the bar twice. I got some good responses sometimes. I found it very fatiguing and rather disconcerting. It was like when you are skiing downhill and you don't know how to ski because your instructor put you on too advanced of a slope because he is too lazy to teach you properly and you really don't know how all this works and you are about to fall down and hurt yourself but you haven't quite yet (I did that once; the doctor informed me later that torn cartilage, such as I now have in my left knee, will not heal). I tried the exact same thing a week later without Brent at the same bar and got elbowed in the head by some guy who didn't like that I touched his girlfriend's shoulder; this is what I mean by wondering when I am going to fall down. I sure could have used more instruction from Brent on how and when it is ok to touch people (something Brent does all the time) and how and when not to, but Brent really does not like to give specific instructions on anything and I think it is
because he is not capable of it.

He told me that he was watching me as I went around
the room and that my body language was good. Ok. At
the end of the night as the same two mediocre women and Brent and I were leaving the bar and Brent said to me "let's just see what happens". We started to leave with them and the even less attractive of them turned to him and said in a no-nonsense way "Uh uh" (no). So that was that. He told me later that he had text messages from both of them where they were competing to take him home and have sex with him ("I know my friend wants you but I want you even more."); I was the deal-breaker. Ok; I am not good at this and I
know that.

The next day (Saturday) we went to a festival in the city. It was packed with people. He said we were going to meet friends of his and meet girls in the city. We went to a bar and he and I were talking for about 15 minutes. I had seen this girl across the bar like 10 minutes before and I decided I had to go approach her... but later :-) Brent was talking to me and I was afraid to approach her she was so cute.

Then after 15 minutes of him talking to me, his back to her, she threaded her way across this packed bar to him, walked right up to him, put out her hand and said
"Hi, I just wanted to meet you". After they talked for a while I was getting bored so I said "why don't you get his phone number?" to her (I know Brent doesn't get phone numbers, he gives them out). So she gave him her phone number. He immediately sent her a text so that she had his number.

The rest of the day he was getting texts from her. At
one point she was texting him saying she had some other girlfriends and they were at a bar and would we
come meet them. I don't think he ever even replied. I asked him why she had approached him. He said it
had something to do with that we were just talking to
each other instead of looking around for girls. That was about as specific as it got.

We went to some other bars. I tried approaching a few
girls. At one point I had some laughing and I was teasing them. He pulled me aside "they aren't attracted to you". "How do you know?" I asked. "I just know" he said. Great. Very instructive.

Then he said we were going to dinner with some friends
of his. We went to this expensive Italian place and spent like 2 - 3 hours with his friends. They were
also pick-up artists (a couple; the woman teaches women). The spent hours telling stories about how David Di Angelo got started by learning from Brent and about watching Ross Jeffries creep out woman after woman at their parties. Brent told stories about coaching wealthy guys who he had to inform that their girlfriends just wanted them for their money etc. The told stories about being on some huge yachts in the Mediterranean where you had to get there by helicopter
and drinking bottles and bottles of Crystal champagne. At the end I realized that Brent has just managed to waste several more very expensive hours of my weekend partying at my expense. He paid for dinner, but at the end of the course he asked me to pay an extra $300 in expenses for something.

That night we met up with a former client and Brent got rather drunk (he drinks constantly) and Brent hung out more with his former client than with me. We went to various bars and drank and I approached girls who did not want to talk to me and told me so immediately. He would make extremely vague unhelpful comments such
as "they know you don't want to have sex with them",
to which I would reply "I do want to have sex with them. I've had sex before; it is not like I am afraid of it." He would reply "you don't *really* want to have sex with them." I don't know what the fuck he was talking about. Later that summer I did in fact get a very hot girl to make out with me in a bar, so I think it is clear that I want to have sex with them. How I got that one I don't know; it seems completely random and very rare.

On the ride home Brent told me that he used to be in a
rock band when he was 16 and he was getting laid like
a rock star. When he lost that life, he spent the rest of his life trying to get that lifestyle back until he figured it out. He said he taught himself all of the instruments by ear and never learned to read music.

The next day (Sunday) we walked by a piano store and I
dragged him in and played a simple I IV V IV I chord
progression, roots with the left hand and the chords arpeggioed with my right in 4/4 time. He said "you're
pretty good!" I asked him to play something. He said
"I could play chopsticks". Hmm, he taught himself to play instruments by ear and used to play keyboards and
guitar in a rock band and all he can do with a keyboard now is play chopsticks?

It was Sunday during the day, so we went to Barnes and
Noble; Juggler says bookstores are a great place to pick up women and in the Juggler courses we trained in bookstores, though I have never succeeded in doing it
even once (I still learned something from Juggler which I can't say about Brent). I talked to a few women. One woman told me how she was teaching her sons to be nice guys to girls and buy them nice things and do everything for them; it is amazing how mother's have more loyalty to women then they do their own sons, teaching them exactly the wrong thing like that -- disgusting. Another girl was pretty talkative and was going on about this and that; I gave her my number
and never heard from her again. Brent watched all of
this but gave me no useful feedback at all.

It was time to take him to the airport, and as we did we walked by the outdoor patio of another club; Brent had heard some women laughing at a distance and walked near it deliberately. The patio was elevated so we could only see and talk to them through a slatted fence we could hardly see through and from below them. Brent pulled it off anyway. He made some remark "Hi." They responded by giving him shit; I can't remember their words exactly. He was still drunk (constantly) and responded with some vacuous remark, completely not
taking the bait of her nasty remark. Then after about one minute he referred to them as "ladies" and they replied that they where whores and maybe would like to
have sex with him in the bathroom. He said later to me if he hadn't had to make his plane he would have.

Here is the thing though: these were four somewhat overweight women in their late 30's. They were drinking. They weren't exactly that attractive. However I did see again that his vacuous responses somehow work for him.

Brent promises follow up where he sends you suggestions on what he thinks you need to work on; one
of his other students mentioned this as well. Despite my repeated requests, Brent never did this. He even
sent me an email once saying "just finishing it up" but he never sent it. He offered an hour on the phone in exchange, but that wasn't the original part of the coaching; a summary follow-up pointing out what to practice would have helped. I wrote him pointing out that he had left me with nothing to practice and no way to make progress. He simply did not reply.

Conclusion: Brent can pick up women, sometimes even
young attractive ones, but he can't teach it. My mother told me a story about her father who was a master calligrapher, among many other things (my Mom is also very good at it and can even print in different typefaces, such as 30 point San Serif etc.). One time he was invited to guest-teach a class on calligraphy. He could do calligraphy so he showed up; but then he realized something: he could *demonstrate* calligraphy, but he had no idea how to *teach* it. This is Brent with women.

I do not accept the excuse that some things are hard to teach; I can teach anything I know; I am quite sure I could teach someone to ride a bike without them falling down even once. If I ever figure out how to pick up girls I'll kick Brent's ass as a teacher. If you are charging $5000 per weekend, or double that which he is now, plus expenses, you have an obligation to actually teach, not just waste time, show off, party at the other person's expense, fail to provide the promised follow-up support, and then blame any failures on the student, which is my summary of my weekend with Brent. It was a huge waste of my money.


somehow I don't think this guy would take the time to write all this unless this is really what happened....

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:45 am 
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Thanks for posting that Sniper, interesting read.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:45 am 
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Yeah, I've read that before Sniper, but that's one negative review compared to the rest of them which were extremely positive. All the people I've talked to have said that all the stories are true and I tend to believe that because Brent has The Wisdom for sure.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:48 am 
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TheModernLibertine wrote:
Yeah, I've read that before Sniper, but that's one negative review compared to the rest of them which were extremely positive. All the people I've talked to have said that all the stories are true and I tend to believe that because Brent has The Wisdom for sure.
even if that's true, we both agree that it's better to try and fail on your own
and then you can save the money for a car or other things...... ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:36 am 
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Hey Mlibertine, is there a particular podcast of AHH that you would recommend? I mean I do not intend to listen 10 podcast which are longer than an hour each ;)

Is there one podcast where he especially talks about indifference?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:51 pm 
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Absolutely, Sniper. I do agree with that. I was just saying it would be fun to see him in person being ridiculous.

Man, I'll have think about that one. I've listened to so many of them, Vegano. 1-4 are all incredibly good. 19 is one where he actually talks about commited relationships. The latest podcast 27 is a great one about indifference. There's a bunch where he has guests on there and I dont really like those that much. He had Rion on 23, I think. That one was decent. My favorite by far is the holiday hookups call that he did with his friend Mitch last christmas because that guy is just like Brent and so it's like having 2 Brents on there. Other than that there's a free podcast that one of his students did that sums up Brents method better than Brent usually does and you can find that in the blog area of that guys website which is stopgivingafuck.com I highly reccomend that podcast and it's pretty much all you need to know concerning the kind of stuff that Brent teaches.

I usually listen to his podcasts in the morning at work. It pumps me up for the day. As far as his mindset goes, I know all that stuff already, but his new podcasts continue to inspire me because his stories are hilarious and I just love how absolutely ridiculous he is. That's what I get out of them at least.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:18 am 
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Thank you very much Libertine. I didn't know stopgivingafuck.com and I think its great. Thinking right now about a phone-coaching with that guy. I know exactly what my aim is (indifference) and I know how to get there but a one-on-one phone with one that reached indifference already might be inspiring I guess.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:31 pm 
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What I like about that guy is he's just a regular guy. I found his podcast very informative. I tried out his way of thinking after listening to it and told myself this story about the kind of women I want to pursue me this summer, because I am lazy when it comes to dating and I just dont pursue women at all. I really dont care enough to put in the effort for traditional dating and women dont want traditional dating anyway. So usually whenever I tell myself a new story. I will take a few steps in the right direction and actually approach these girls I am interested with, banter with them for a bit and either give them my number for a social reason or not. After that they usually text me and we end up getting together later. However, on this particular occasion the exact kind of girl that I told myself the story about came up to me, actually opened me and asked me out. It didn't blow my mind, but I found it pretty inspiring that people can have whatever they want if they just live it and get out of their own way.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:13 pm 
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I'm going to have a first phone coaching with Jake of dontgiveafuck.com at Wednesday :)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:59 pm 
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Vegano wrote:
I'm going to have a first phone coaching with Jake of dontgiveafuck.com at Wednesday :)
That's cool his prices are very reasonable :)

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