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| Zan Perrion- The way of the natural (4 DVDs) http://naturalfreedom.info/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=26 |
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| Author: | peregrinus [ Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Zan |
I am going to propose that we just drop this endless discussion of Zan. It seems like it comes up every few weeks, I am sure everyone has had a chance to give their views by now. |
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| Author: | The Kidd!! [ Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:32 pm ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: Zan | |
I am going to propose that we just drop this endless discussion of Zan.
I echo my brother from another mother's sentiments. It seems like it comes up every few weeks, I am sure everyone has had a chance to give their views by now. 
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| Author: | sofforte [ Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Zan Perrion- The way of the natural (4 DVDs) |
I've seen this material in the last days.. my first impression was not good.. but after a while I was kind of intrigued by this guy..a little bit fascinated..he's good! Especially when he talks about "the way of change".. about the importance of affirmation and visualisation. In this part (change) his teaching overlap a little bit with Cory Skyy. And another big point is when he talks about looking behind the makeup and see the pain and frustration of any woman. |
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| Author: | TheModernLibertine [ Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Zan |
Yes, you'll get a pass on this inquiry, Kidd. I think you've done a good job of explaining your approach. It's very hard for me to explain my way of doing things. I dont really have a method, but I will make a post trying to explain what I've done to get success if I can organize my thoughts. It's kind of hard for me, because it is quite internalized. Sniper, as you can see by my profile picture...annnnd my facebook page. I do love the renaissance. So, the 1700's approach is second nature to me,lol. |
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| Author: | The Kidd!! [ Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:33 pm ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: Zan | |
Yes, you'll get a pass on this inquiry, Kidd.
YAY! 
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| Author: | TheModernLibertine [ Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Zan Perrion- The way of the natural (4 DVDs) |
Cory Skyy is a lot more practical than Zan, but I find Zans way of speaking and his theories very enlightening. |
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| Author: | Alchemist [ Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Zan |
I agree with Pere, and on that note 'Zan method' certainly didn't do nothin for me, I've spent a few hours with him in person and even applied his mindset for a few months, I learned the hard way. When I tried it on older women over 50yrs. their immediate reaction was to grab and kiss me, if I had followed through would things have happened? probably but I didn't have a granny fetish at the time  , when they reach that age they're genuinely flattered but that's besides the point, I renounce the school of Zan. 
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| Author: | TheModernLibertine [ Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Zan |
Hahaha, that sucks, create. That reminds me of American Pie 3 where Stifler is fucking that old lady in the closet. I dont think I would want to learn from him in person, but I think from listening to all his different interviews and watching his dvd's the kind of value I pulled from it lended itself to the knowledge I already had and helped me to augment my mindset in small and sometimes large ways, also it took me quite a while to fully grasp alot of the things that he was saying. His "method" is vastly misunderstood by tons of guys on his forum as he doesn't really have a method. He's just a guy that is saying what works for him and he has said countless times on his interviews that he does not want guys to act like him i.e. the smile and wink thing. He actually doesn't do that very much, but when he does, I'm sure it works because he's a pretty charismatic guy, but guys took that to mean it was some sort of seduction tactic and that is entirely missing the point. The point he was trying to make with the smile and wink remarks is to be light hearted and never take yourself or the girl too seriously. To have fun and never put wieght on the outcome. That's what he was trying to get across. Instead he was misunderstood and a bunch of guys ran around trying to be Don Juan Demarco. Here are the things that I have pulled from Zan's interviews that were good for me personally. -There is really nothing for women to grab on to in most men today, which I fully agree. -Be light hearted. Smile and Wink is a mindset, not a fucking technique. -Move towards who you really are as a person and what resonates with you at any cost. Follow your bliss. -Women really are sick of wearing the pants. They are truly are. I have so many conversations with women about this and they have said to me exactly the same thing to me that Zan says in his talks. -Men dont really have any kind of right of passage to go through anymore, so we have to create one for ourselves. Most men never do and remain teenagers for the rest of their lifes and the women get pissed. Women kind of have a right of passage and that is when they get their menstrual cycle. That's when they really get a sense that they are becoming a woman. -HUMILITY! That is a big thing I pulled from him. If you are too arrogant, or come on too strong with your advances without making fun of yourself and the situation then it can really intimidate a woman. He quotes Cary Grant alot on this subject. When asked what his secret was with women Cary Grant said "I just tell them I cant get it up". -You have the right to stand on this earth and be a man. You have the right to occupy your space on earth and speak your honest truth. That is your right and dont ever let anyone take that away from you. -Mainly, having compassion for women. I use the word "bitches" alot, but I do have a tremendous amount of compassion for women. I've had enough deep conversations with both women that I have been with or women that are just friends about the state of men and women, and believe it or not, men aren't the only one's who who experience sadness and lonliness. I know what women go through and I really do feel bad for them. Sometimes it's a very dangerous place out there for them. There's a LOT of frustrated guys and not all of them are nice about it. Some are very violent. Women do deserve compassion, not ass kissing, but compassion. Real compassion. Those are the things that were good realizations for me from Zans work. I figured that if I was going to bring Zan up here, I might as well clarify what exactly was helpful in his teachings for me. I hope that helps. |
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| Author: | Sniper [ Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:49 pm ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: Zan | |
Mainly, having compassion for women. I use the word "bitches" alot, but I do have a tremendous amount of compassion for women. I've had enough deep conversations with both women that I have been with or women that are just friends about the state of men and women, and believe it or not, men aren't the only one's who who experience sadness and lonliness. I know what women go through and I really do feel bad for them. Sometimes it's a very dangerous place out there for them. There's a LOT of frustrated guys and not all of them are nice about it. Some are very violent. Women do deserve compassion, not ass kissing, but compassion. Real compassion.
I also have compassion for women, however they own 'the game'. Within the social matrix if they look nice they have most of the power and choice in the mating game. I don't think that they are so lonely unless they choose to be, while a lot of good looking and quality men are lonely since for them it's not as easy as it is for women (unless you live in an area where the ratio between men and women is in men's favour.......)
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| Author: | TheModernLibertine [ Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Zan |
I understand where you're coming from, Sniper and everyone that is reaching higher levels of success with women goes through that level of being pissed at things. I read a few books by Rion concerning his theories on the social matrix and truthfully it ended up just pissing me off. It is a theory that he made up, though it does have some valid points. Ultimately, yes, women can get quite a few men by looking beautiful, but that doesn't mean they want that. Women get pursued by a lot of needy guys because of their looks, but they dress that way in hopes that they might run in to a real man. Women hate having to be masculine in their energy because the guys around them are so passive and feminine, but unfortunately for them they think that's all there is. Do I give them a pass on their nonsense because I know why they are the way they are? Absolutely not. I do not tolerate bullshit, not even for a minute. They will thank you for that and change their behavior really fast, but you cant walk around with a resentment for things. It soils reality around you. |
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| Author: | Scarf [ Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Zan |
Since I appear to be automatically logged in, I might as well post.... Fascinating! Very few people understand that Zan's stuff is meant to be internal and not external. I agree, almost completely with Zan's theories and understanding, so based on that fact, I will only give criticisms based on the following: 1. The 'respect' for women thing is slightly overdone for the field of work he's in. 2. His style and outlook ONLY works for people who already have game (he himself admits this) 3. He has difficulty explaining what he understands Other than that, he is more or less the right guy and his philosophies are practically spot on. |
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| Author: | Resonance [ Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Zan |
It seems like you guys have truly understood what Zan is trying to purvey in his message |
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| Author: | El-Chameleon [ Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:23 am ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: Zan | |
-Mainly, having compassion for women. I use the word "bitches" alot, but I do have a tremendous amount of compassion for women.
I totally agree with you on that Libertine.If there's something valuable I learn from Rion is the beauty of their natural character and they are human beings and deserve respect, they are not just a piece of meat. Sometimes even the prostitutes didn't want to became that, many times they didn't have another choice in life. So yes I delete also the word "bitch" from my dictionary. |
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| Author: | The Kidd!! [ Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:47 am ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: Zan | |
Since I appear to be automatically logged in, I might as well post....
Scarf, I am disappoint. Fascinating! Very few people understand that Zan's stuff is meant to be internal and not external. I agree, almost completely with Zan's theories and understanding, so based on that fact, I will only give criticisms based on the following: 1. The 'respect' for women thing is slightly overdone for the field of work he's in. 2. His style and outlook ONLY works for people who already have game (he himself admits this) 3. He has difficulty explaining what he understands Other than that, he is more or less the right guy and his philosophies are practically spot on. 
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| Author: | Sniper [ Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:00 am ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: Zan | |
I read a few books by Rion concerning his theories on the social matrix and truthfully it ended up just pissing me off. It is a theory that he made up, though it does have some valid points.
ML,Do you think that Rion's theory about the social matrix and social power of women is not so true? I would love to hear more of your thoughts about this, if you feel like writing them... 
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| Author: | Alchemist [ Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:03 am ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: Zan | |
Since I appear to be automatically logged in, I might as well post....
If this is my friend Scarf from London, we will never come to an agreement on this. Fascinating! Very few people understand that Zan's stuff is meant to be internal and not external. I agree, almost completely with Zan's theories and understanding, so based on that fact, I will only give criticisms based on the following: 1. The 'respect' for women thing is slightly overdone for the field of work he's in. 2. His style and outlook ONLY works for people who already have game (he himself admits this) 3. He has difficulty explaining what he understands Other than that, he is more or less the right guy and his philosophies are practically spot on. Could you please explain to me how you went from hating on Zan back to promoting his school of thought?. Me is confused. 
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| Author: | Alchemist [ Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:06 am ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: Zan | |
If there's something valuable I learn from Rion is the beauty of their natural character and they are human beings and deserve respect, they are not just a piece of meat. So yes I delete also the word "bitch" from my dictionary.
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| Author: | Sniper [ Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:08 am ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: Zan | |
Since I appear to be automatically logged in, I might as well post....
Scarf, Zan is a teacher. 'Even' if he knows his stuff for himself, the way he teaches it makes a lot (if not most) of his students into wimps who worship women with no power.Fascinating! Very few people understand that Zan's stuff is meant to be internal and not external. I agree, almost completely with Zan's theories and understanding, so based on that fact, I will only give criticisms based on the following: 1. The 'respect' for women thing is slightly overdone for the field of work he's in. 2. His style and outlook ONLY works for people who already have game (he himself admits this) 3. He has difficulty explaining what he understands Other than that, he is more or less the right guy and his philosophies are practically spot on. If I were to go public and teach this stuff, as a teacher I have to know how to teach other guys who are just starting out, not say: I got it and most guys won't get it. Why am I even teaching if I can get other guys to 'get it'? Take David Deida for example. Some people say that what he teaches is advanced and I think it's true. But he does not teach 'seduction' and his work is not in the field of 'seduction'. |
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| Author: | Scarf [ Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Zan |
First of all, Kidd!!, it is terrific to see you again (one of the reasons I got here) - Create, you too! Kidd, believe it or not, the base fundamentals between Zan's stuff and your stuff do have some similarities, though both of your approaches differ. I don't see anything wrong with either. Now that I have more game, I'm interested in learning a bit more about your stuff, I liked one excerpt from one of your articles. I'll let you know which one. Create, how did I go from one to the other? simple. Tried everything and kept what works. I ended up back at Zan's. Sniper, I agree with everything you just said. Didn't any of you read point 2? You MUST have an in depth understanding of who you are and what you want if you are to have any success with Zan's approach. Most of the guys back at Zan's are whimpering KJ dicks. But that doesn't mean the guy is not legit. It's not his fault that his followers don't know how to think for themselves and are pussywhipped. PS I think David Deida sucks. I still haven't finished that superior man crap and I aint going to. |
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| Author: | Alchemist [ Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Zan |
True Scarf, it isn't Zan's fault but he doesn't stop suckers from coming his way, he welcomes them with open arms or should I say palms, as they account for at least 90% of his cashflow.
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